$750 L98

iTrader: (7)

It was actually HORSES they were worried about dropping. Stop the horse, stop the charge. .45 is a good round obviously, but expensive, and scarce around here.

I prefer 9mm, 115gr, $9 a box, goes bang every time and my Taurus PT92 holds 17+1 of it. If that's not enough, my backup Kel-Tec P11 hides in a pocket and holds 10+1

Drugged up crazy or horse, you aren't going to survive 29rds of 9mm.

http://port47.ath.cx/misc/guns/pt92ss/pt92_6.jpg

Fits the hand well, full size, reliable beyond belief, tac rail for light/laser/etc, very accurate. Only draw back is, like those have said, the grip is thick, other than that, it's no bigger than a 1911. Besides I'm a medium size dude at 5'10" and 180lbs, if it fits my hand none of you 6'7" guys get to complain

Oh and it also has the original Beretta frame mounted safety and will take Beretta parts, aside from the few Taurus modified.

Camaro Junky

Well I can't tell my kids that lol.

Though the 45 ammo is getting hard to find. Academy never has it. Also, it is a regional thing. I had friend drive through Georgia and they seem to have plenty of it out there...

-Ross-

iTrader: (2)

This guy carried a 9 and he killed a whole bunch of people.

$750 L98

iTrader: (7)

Lighter (14oz unloaded) and easier (DAO) to put into action that a Walther PPK, also uses standard 9mm. Very small.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...1/DSCF0358.jpg

brian_rs/ss

the horse thing...yeah that was .45 long colt. the revolver round. not .45 ACP.

9mm is the best pistol range caliber ever. also good for the military, police and gang bangers. all for the same reason, its cheap and easy to stuff a bagillion rounds in one magazine. one other reason why its also good for these uses...if you can't hit **** with a pistol you'll have a bagillion 2nd chances.

look up the ballistics on 9mm ammo. especially hollow point 9mm fired through layers of clothing into a ballistics gel block. or fired through a layer of auto glass, or heavy winter clothing, or thin sheet metal, or dry wall etc etc etc. the only thing 9mm is good for is penetrating bare flesh. and even then it doesn't have the diameter that other rounds do to deliver a good enough shock through the soft tissue.

but i mean i have no idea what i'm talking about. so it's ok keep shooting 9mm.

$750 L98

iTrader: (7)

It was indeed .45 ACP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP

Thompson insisted on a real "man stopper" pistol, following the poor showing of the Army's .38 Long Colt pistols during the Philippine Insurrection (1899-1902).

.45 colt was the predecessor and huge influence in consideration concerning bullet size and weight. This is why they remained with the "minimum" acceptable cartridge being a .45 cal. of course it was updated for the new semi-auto design.

$750 L98

iTrader: (7)

9mm is also an efficient round regardless of what people say. You do know that .357 is 9mm right? And if I'm not mistaken it has quite the reputations for stopping fights. There are also many hot loadings of +p 9mm that equals or eclipses .357 magnum.

Expansion is also the job of round design and composition, not diameter. 308 certainly stops a bad guy a lot better than 9mm, but it's smaller in diameter. .223 has been around for decades, and is one of the most popular long gun rounds in the world. It's just a .22 at 45-72gr....(they also over-penetrate with the majority being solid FMJ)

Bigger is better, but in a world where not every man, and woman has the strength of Hollywood Arnold, there are considerations and compromises to be made. 45 ACP is a great round, but costly, and is too much for some to handle.

There was also a time for me that I swore I'd never defend 9mm, but it's not a simple "bigger is better" scenario.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/
http://www.theboxotruth.com/

Anyway, back to the OP - Pick:
What you can best handle
Afford to shot the most of
Are most accurate with
Something with a realistic magazine size
Something that will not over-penetrate (.44 mag need not apply)
Something simple and easy to employ

XtremeBBQ

iTrader: (6)

or you could shoot a 10mm like a real man.



http://media.photobucket.com/image/1...r24/10mm-1.jpg

$750 L98

iTrader: (7)

LOL I love it. I personally would have liked 10mm to become more popular than it is, but the FBI complained about over-penetration and apparently some of their lesser counterparts couldn't control recoil well. So they shortened the case, called it .40 S&W and bam, that's what we have now.

Now a Dan Wesson Razorback in 10mm would still be a very sweet piece.

brian_rs/ss

k...i know that. you said the .45 was made to put down a horse. and you were half right. it was the .45 colt revolver, not ACP.

the 9mm parabellum is inferior to many other rounds that are similar in diameter. ie: .380 ACP, .357, .38 special, .357 SIG etc etc. and i'm not talking about +p either...that's another whole discussion entirely. and btw i never said bigger was better. i just said the 9mm sucks...in other words.

btw i am 125lbs, i am a marine, and damn it i am tired of ppl saying the the .45 is too big. maybe for a 90lb girl but thats about it. you don't have to be arnold to properly shoot a .45 or hell even a .44 or .50. ive shot all 3. they aren't that bad....srsly. and **** if i can shoulder and fire an m240, i think most average ppl out there that are bigger than me can handle a .45

also OP already picked his weapons...a .380 and .45 which are both much better rounds than the 9mm IMO.

$750 L98

iTrader: (7)

To each their own, but there is a reason other than personal opinion that the 9mm is the most widely used round in pistols. 9mm ballistics are superior to both .380 ACP and .38 special. Both of those have an upper end energy of ~200ft/lbs, 9mm starts at ~300ft/lb and moves up to ~600 ft/lb - that's a big difference in kinetic energy.

.357/357 sig are very similar, and again I made the point that 9mm has a lot of overlap with these two in terms of effectiveness and available ammunition. Is 357 better? Yes it's been proven since what, the 1930-40's, and it's still going strong, I have two DW large frame revolvers chambered for .357 Mag - but it's hard to find at times. Still my favorite round in terms of balance and effectiveness.

I didn't post my replies to start ****, so don't take it personally. However my opinion, and the research done by many remains - 9mm is an effective round. Maybe not in the Beretta, I know there is also a reason you aren't a SEAL until you've tasted Italian steel. Now if you are blaming the jamming issues with the M9, that isn't the M9, that's the magazine. They added some special "coating" to protect them from the sand, but ended up screwing you guys and causing lots of jams. They should have stuck with Mec-gar.

Just because you and I can shoot hot hunting loads out of a .44 Mag doesn't mean everyone else can. That was my favorite gun when I was 18, 240gr @ 1500fps were what I shot standard out of a light weight med. frame snub. I could hit the target pretty well with that thing, but follow up shots in quick succession were tricky, recoil was less than optimal, ammo was expensive, and ballistics dictated that it would have severe travel through issues.

I also believe I already said .45 is a good round, it was my first semi-auto caliber. Again, it was expensive, large, heavy, and had recoil more significant than most 9mm. I also didn't say it was too big, but that it is hard to handle for some people - Don't ask me why, I like shooting it. But again, recoil, follow up shots, and over all effectiveness of the individual with the weapon is what lead the military, police forces, and a large amount of private citizens to choose 9mm.

In Texas however it is still much harder to find 45 acp and that's just a fact, and partially what drove me to buy a 9mm firearm. I also don't know of any 45 acp that allows me to carry cocked/locked with 17+1. Unless of course you contract STI to build you a nice custom double stack 2011.

Right now, considering what I've been paying for 9mm, 4 boxes of 9mm = 1 box of .45 ACP. I can certainly afford to practice more with 9mm lol

What makes you say 380 acp is better than 9mm though? They certainly make some small firearms in that caliber, my kel-tec P11 however weighs less than a walther PPK and holds 10+1, 12+1, or 14+1 in a flush fit mag. On the ballistic side 380 acp doesn't come close to 9mm.

The M240 can't be that bad of a kicker either, those were pretty hefty last I remember (~30lbs). Now the Saiga 12 I have on the other hand, at 7lb dry, my brother hated it. He didn't like shooting 1oz 3" Mag slugs out of it, and he had nearly 50lb on me. I still get ~1" groups at 25yds with no choke and cheap slugs. I'd still like to see the military make good with some AA-12s or S-12s, those things are wicked for urban combat. But long guns are a totally different story.

killerbird

i own numerous weapons(check out my pix) and as far as handguns go, if you have big hands/long fingers, beretta 92fs (italian version only) if you have "average size" hands and want more concealable glock 19 is best bang for the buck, good size, 9mm with the right ammo will get the job done and less maintenance than a beretta...think of a beretta as a "cadillac" and a glock as a chevy, same thing, different label/price but you can never go wrong with a 1911, then again, everyone has there own taste and preference, pm me if you got a specific question

Mike TexaSS

iTrader: (2)

I have Glock 22. I love it. .40 cal for the win!

_Zac

iTrader: (1)

What if you have a teen wolf problem? What's the best round for that?

$750 L98

iTrader: (7)

Has to be a revolver, and you have to use silver bullets...with cross shaped hollow points.

-Ross-

iTrader: (2)

Doesn't matter the round...as long as they are pure silver.

Or, you could get a vampire to take the wolf out.

HTX

iTrader: (1)

some of you guys are talking **** about guys who cant handle the recoil of 45... If you were REALLY talented with a pistol, you wouldnt NEED anything more than a 22 for self defense...

Unless of course you want to be able to take down your enemy through a wall, ir car door, or apparently on the other side of a horse. Which is why i own a XD9mm and glock 27 .40

I just wanted to defend the small caliber guys

dragonpainter

I own the Beretts 92fs. I have average size handsand it's a real reach to get my index finger to sit at the right spot on the trigger. I shoots wonderfully. I added adjustable target sight and it's spot on. If you're considering concealed carry you definitely need smaller. Some people say concealed carry with a full size 1911 is fine. Personally I wouldn't want the bulkiness and weight. There are a couple higher capacity small compacts out now that are nice. I agree with an earlier response someone added. Go to a local range where they rent and try out a few. Good luck.

dragonpainter

Just noticed the date. O well!

Spamfritter

iTrader: (1)

I really hate it when people make arguments for .22LR as a defensive option. From a ballistics perspective, it just isn't a great option. Shot placement won't solve that issue for several reasons. For starters, shot placement under duress isn't reliable. You can't count on being calm enough in a defensive situation to make the kind of shots you need to stop a threat with something like a .22LR. Even if you could, Training is fantastic and I'm all for it, but you can't really know how you'll behave under duress until it happens. I wouldn't count on your "talent" as you put it .22LR is unreliable as a defensive option due to several factors. The round is prone to deflection due to its lack of mass. Hitting bone, clothing or almost anything can deflect the shot trajectory.

Finally, rimfire cartridges are unreliable in general. Meaning that they are often prone to not going off due to light strikes. This varies by ammunition quality, the firearm in question and so on. .22LR based handguns are also not typically designed as defensive firearms either. They tend to have a larger target oriented configuration. There are some that fall into a more defensive category, but you get to combine a short sight radius, poor ergonomics, magazine feeding issues and other problems into a package that's hard to even argue as being better than nothing as it can give someone a false sense of security.

And before the ".22LR has killed more people than any other caliber" argument gets made, keep in mind that .22LR is the most popular cartridge in America. Not for self-defense, but in general. It's used for sport and target shooting because it's cheap. It's also been around longer than many other options have. .22LR rifles can be found in homes that don't even have firearms to speak of otherwise. Keep in mind firearm death statistics tend to lump suicides, accidental deaths due to negligent discharges, and even shootings involving law abiding citizens putting down intruders or others in concealed carry situations in the same pile. Yes, .22LR has probably killed more than any other caliber, but it's effectiveness and track record for lethality isn't really all that good.

As far as recoil goes, one of the many reasons why people opt for 9mm over .45ACP is the smaller size of the handguns and additional capacity. It isn't necessarily because of recoil. While .45ACP does have more felt recoil than 9mm generally does, platform, ammunition choice and other factors probably play a bigger part in the decision to choose one caliber over another. I've worked in a gun store and rarely have I heard of people saying they wanted 9mm over .45ACP because of recoil. It's usually the bottom of their list of reasons for such a choice. Cheaper ammunition, capacity and smaller framed guns are usually the reason. In fact, there are often cases where people will take a smaller gun and give no thought to recoil because they believe it won't matter for the few shots they need should a situation arise where deadly force is warranted.

This is why you'll see people carrying far heavier loads in their defensive weapons than what they practice with. I have sold .357 Magnum airweight revolvers to people that wanted to carry .357 Magnum, but never practice with it. Instead, they shoot .38 Special, but put .357 Magnum in it for carry. They also don't believe they can miss at the distances where they would need it. In my experience, little weight or emphasis is placed on recoil when making caliber selections for concealed carry. Gun size is the number one thing people look for whether that's right or wrong.

Carrying a full sized 1911 is perfectly fine. I've done it for the bulk of the last 15 years. Frankly, compact and sub-compact guns suck to varying degrees as they are all a compromise. They have increased felt recoil, worse ergonomics, less capacity, and a shorter sight radius than their full sized counterparts. That said, some options like the Glock 19 do find themselves in a pretty good spot as they strike a balance between concealment, low weight, decent recoil characteristics and accuracy. Basically, a full sized gun would be best, but it's disadvantage is weight. A sub-compact is the easiest to carry, but they all suck to shoot compared to full sized options with a similar design. If your going to conceal carry you have to find that balance between concealment and usability. Everyone's balance is different. I'd rather take a bit more weight on the belt and be confident in my weapon than suffer the drawbacks of some tiny pocket gun.

However, others would often opt not to carry rather than being burdened by some full sized gun be it polymer or alloy frame. A gun left at home is useless. So, those people opt for a more comfortable route and take a weapon with some drawbacks on the basis that they probably won't need it. Some simply value on characteristic or another when choosing a concealed carry weapon. I put less weight in the size of the gun when making my decision, but I'm a fairly large individual with fairly loose fitting clothes. If your a millenial wearing skinny jeans and a fedora, you probably won't want a full sized duty handgun like a Beretta 92FS at your side. Where as I'd rather carry that, then a SIG P365.