OUTLAWZ RACING

iTrader: (9)

Ok for 1 didnt mean to call u screwd up lol its just a figure of speech. Now The public option is nothing new it has always been there. It was a matter of letting people get insurance over state lines thats it. You dont understand our debt. China and kwait and saudi araiba hold the most u.s debt. 60% of your house paymet and your car bills go over seas. That bail out was for our debt holders not for the u.s Do u remeber when the dow hit 10000 in 2005? everbody was in a up roar and everthing was good right. Now look at it it has been as high as 11000 and no body tuted a horn. Because its all inflated numbers the u.s dollars is so weak now its pathetic. the only reason its holding on because of the faith in or market to rise and everybody would make some money. The trust behind the us dollar is just hope thats it other than that its just a pice of paper.

Sept 11 yes I remember it all to well, I served with honers untill i was hurt 11 long years, But anyway lets look close at that IRAQ had nothing to do with it WMD was a crop. Take a look into the food for oil treaty and u will see the WMD where allready gone lol. That was part of the deal for IRAQ to give them up. They dident have **** to do with 911 nothing. You have some valid points and good insight but if u will only take the time and reasearch u will see that the US is not going to fail we are on the verge of loosing our A++ credit rating with the world But aslong as Obama keeps the special intrest groups happy its going to be a long road to recovery.

It has been fun debating with u.

To the OP Hell yeah I dont want to be micro managed it wont last and it dosent work so. This pass vote took our voice away but we where still heard so when this next election comes up the fruits of our labour will show.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

Quit reading those viral emails, you know those aren't entirely true, right? As for the deficit, (it's 1.3, not 13 trillion BTW) read up on Keynesian Economics. When the economy is in the crapper, the gov't is supposed to take over for the lack in consumer spending, even at the cost of deficit spending. Keynes said that you get the economy "stimulated" again, then work off the deficit, not the other way around.

Where is the bipartisanship!? I'd like to know too, but blaming it on Mr. Obama is just ridiculous. You didn't see where Republican Senators decided not to work past 2:00pm, cancelling hearings on things like budgets for Afghanistan and VA benefits for homeless veterans, in retribution for the health care being passed? I guess it's Obama's fault for passing healthcare, huh? LOL.

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

Oh, great. Another Keynesian economist.

The government fraction of GDP is supposed to temporarily be increased during a recession. And it's also very important on what the expenditures are being spent. It's also important not to raise taxes as well in a recession. Do you know what "crowding out" is? The spending by this Congress and Administration is mind-boggling at best and their actions are absolutely hampering growth in the private sector with their asinine legislation and policies, e.g. health care, cap and tax, etc. I bet you didn't know that FDR and the New Deal prolonged the Depression by years. The market would have corrected itself had the socialists not stepped in. But I'm also sure you're aware that WW2 brought us out of the Depression.

Right. Because it's okay to continue astronomical deficit spending. I'm glad there's no bipartisan support. I'm glad the Republicans opposed very well the unconstitutional "health care" bill.

Don't confuse legitimate, enumerated functions of governments with socialism and socialized programs. Functions of government are instituted for the maintaining of law and order in society. That's one of the reasons why people come together and form governments.

Forcing individuals to purchase health care insurance is unconstitutional and corporate fascism.

Aggie_Ls1

Completely agree with every point. But don't forget to add a big protective military in there with the other critical and necessary government functions!

OUTLAWZ RACING

iTrader: (9)

Forcing individuals to purchase health care insurance is unconstitutional and corporate fascism

Ok so why is it a law for car insurance????? Why are we forced to get driver licenes????? Why cant we drink and drive???? Why cant we smoke weed that was made by the earth???? I dont get it lol having people buy heath care to get them off the public dime is a great way to save money and boost money to the hospitals and insurance companies. The healthcare plan is not socialism lol it has been branded that way by the GOP and the media. Take time read it and draw your own conclusion. I did it was a pain in the *** but i did. I would want to know for myself where my tax dollar is going. Hell when I was in the Army I had to buy SGLI insurance lol it was a standard is that socialism??? WTF...

OUTLAWZ RACING

iTrader: (9)

Oh, great. Another Keynesian economist.

That is a great sight aswell, but there are other sources out there that the GOP use and say the same **** lol. REASEARCH PEOPLE step away from your party and do your own work and see. I dislike many things OBAMA has done but when u reasearch u will see that 90% makes sense. I did the same thing when bush was in office.

02CamaroSSLE

iTrader: (5)

i think some people tend forget that when they blame bush for "getting us in a war"... iraq is kinda debateable but you cant honestly say sadaam was NOT a threat...

you dont have to get those, you just dont have the PRIVLEGE to drive if you dont have these items. as for your othe questions c'mon be reasonable about it...

OUTLAWZ RACING

iTrader: (9)

I was just saying if there so much a privliage then why tax on it? Why not just give licenes for free? But in order to enjoy driving u need to abide by the law. Health care was not avaialble to alot of people for cost and conditions. samthing for insurance for cars u have enough d.u.i;s and nobody would insure u. And the weed comment. Im sorry but the feds corrupted weed, There are more violent crims commited from alcohol and guns. Native anercians smoke weed for years with no ill affects. Tobacco has more ill affects than weed. Trust me I did a study for collage on it. Im not trying to enforce my views on anybody, Im just trying to show if u be independet and reasearch for your self.

U would see the light.

FastB

iTrader: (11)

Because if you don't have car insurance and you hit me how am I going to get my car repaired or my medical bills paid for? It is to protect everyone around you from you. If you don't have health insurance it does not effect me. You having or not having health insurance does not compare to having car insurance. Worst argument I have heard since this debate started. LOL

zero2sixT

iTrader: (4)

Can't agree more. You didn't by chance go to U of H and take some ECON classes did you? A lot of what you stated sounds very familiar.

lol @ the Keynesian economist. They don't teach you that crap to embrace it. They teach it to you in order to identify it.

Jeff,

Its cool man, you can get that brass back anytime you want. Just go buy some chinese p.o.s manufactured good from any of our fine retail centers. There's probably some of our brass in it, plus some bonus carcinogens.

And on healthcare. If I can have a gov't official determine what the best course of treatment of an illness or condition of mine, can I have someone show up and do my job tonight? Or at least make my rounds, and/or catch samples?

boostnificent

iTrader: (7)

Here is where you need to check the deficit. http://www.usdebtclock.org/ Not some ultra liberal creative economy think tank who uses creative math.

As far as bipartisanship don't come at me with the Huffington Post either because they are light years away from bipartisan. Why don't you ask your beloved Obama where the bipartisanship he promised is? I guess he thought the Republicans would roll over and play dead for him. Yes the Healthcare Bill Obama's fault. What planet have you been on for the past two years?

I agree 100%.

Dude you have no idea what you are talking about. The whole healthcare bill is a government ran healthcare system. Who in the hell do you think is going to pay for it? THE TAXPAYERS!!!! IF YOU PAY TAXES IT WILL BE ON YOUR DIME. The healthcare bill WILL NOT do anything you just said it would. It will actually do the exact oppisite. It is socialism because it is forcing the taxpayers to pay for the healthcare of other people that are not their responsibility. It will be the largest redistribution of wealth our country has ever seen.

so·cial·ism   /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled[soh-shuh-liz-uhm] –noun

1.a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

It sounds like socialism to me!

We are forced to get insurance and a license is because driving is a priviledge not a right. We cannot drink and drive because we might hurt someone other than ourselves. Government's role is to protect me from someone or something that might do me harm. Government's role is not to protect me from myself. I am actually with you on the weed thing . I think we need to legalize most drugs and tax them heavily. Take away the allure and most of the problem would fix itself and help clean up our gene pool in the process. You did not have to buy SGLI. It was voluntary.

Exactly. Government's role is to protect me from someone or something that might do me harm. Government's role is not to protect me from myself.

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

Actually, I took Intermediate Macro there last semester. Haha. Being that UH is certainly a liberal university, they teach it because they subscribe to it, in my opinion. People like us learn it to warn against it. I will say though that I enjoyed the class. It gave some very good foundations in macroeconomics. Most importantly, though, I learned that government is never the solution. It is typically the problem. You never increase the efficiency of something if you increase the government's role. Minimal and effective government is key to a healthy economy.

As for the car insurance, it's not the same as health insurance mandate for a number of reasons.

The federal government has a very limited and specific role in this nation as per the Constitution. In its jurisdiction it has supreme authority. The state governments have general jurisdiction and they are supreme in their jurisdictions. The federal government cannot force you to purchase a product or service from a business. That is corporate fascism.

Car insurance is different because you do not have to purchase a vehicle. You have a number of alternatives in transportation, though our society is certainly built around the automobile. Car insurance also exists not to cover you (Liability is only type of coverage that is required in Texas. Remember, it varies from state to state.) but rather the other person. The reason behind this was people were getting into car accidents with no insurance, and the person whose car suffered the damage who could not afford to get it repaired often could not make it to work for whatever and so they lost their job and went on unemployment, this cost the state more money, blah blah blah. I personally do not agree with that logic, because it's not the government's job to take care of us and coddle us and so forth for a protracted period of time. But unemployment is a social safety net that exists. At any rate, there is no alternative for a health insurance mandate if you're alive. Buy health care insurance or be taxed. Now, they're taxing life. To sum up, the state governments and the people have general jurisdictions and so health care insurance mandate from the states would be vastly more legitimate. And I'm not even mentioning the fact that the "health care bill" will only cripple the health care industry, which is their goal to a single-payer system. The next step is price controls then single-payer.

1BADC7

iTrader: (1)

Whats funny is everone will be voting for him again to serve 3 more years of Fu????? people over. People most love getting screwed?

deelong4002

iTrader: (8)

If you dont have health insurance, and have a major medical event, who do you think pays for it? It isnt free. The other people who use that hospital pay for it. The people who have health insurance. This was the worst argument of this thread.

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

We pay for it. They pay for it, too - assuming it's a tax payer. We want a social safety net that provides emergency service for catastrophic, life-threatening situations. That's fine. We can save illegals. That's fine, too. However, if we as a society save the life of a taxpayer who doesn't have insurance or cannot afford the emergency service, it is absolutely in our best interest to save that person's life even for "free." Why? First of all, a taxpayer is already paying into the system, and if saved, they'll do what? Continue paying into the system and stay or hopefully become a productive member of society. The most important reason is it's the right thing to do regardless of if it's paid back. Remember, I'm taking about catastrophic, life-threatening situations, not illegals going to the ER because of a cold.

boostnificent

iTrader: (7)

When did the govenment start subsidising the hospitals? Taxpayers are not currently paying for anything other than Medicaid/Medicare and the fed pays for very little of it if any. Those programs were passed by the federal government and then pawned off to the states just as this healthcare will be.

You guys that think this healthcare bill is going to take away the burden from the taxpayers are in for a rude awakening.

FastB

iTrader: (11)

Right, I work in a hospital and it loses money every month (about 3M a month) from people using the ER as a band aid station and not being able to pay their bills. That is the reason why people that have their medical bills paid through insurance pay so much. If you pay for medical services with cash it is quite a bit cheaper, but if you pay with insurance it is much more expensive. They are making the insurance companies pay for it which could be a reason why INSURANCE COST SO DAMN MUCH. The hospital next door is a county hospital and we get more indigent patients than they do. Guess what else, the CEO of our hospital has gone to the state numerous times to get gov't help since they are not having to pay for these people. Well the state will not reimburse the hospital I work for when we are taking care of the people that the state is supposed to be seing at the socialized hospital (Ben Taub). So anyways how was what I said the worst argument. You can't compare car insurance to health insurance. No way, no how. They are meant for two totally different reasons.

zero2sixT

iTrader: (4)

Ha, small world. I got out of there in May '04 with a B.S. in Econ. I had a lady prof, I think of persian decent. I can't remember her name. But I do remember her pretty much just explaining it, not pushing an agenda. (And also having an *** I'd like to have seen nekkid) The whole principle came across as eating your feet to stay alive. I can't remember all the variables in the equations for GDP. I remember the G variable (government) having a negative effect. Damn, coming up on 6 years ago...wow, been awhile since Ive talked to anyone about that stuff.

If he is still there, you like history, and it fits your degree plan...sign up for "History of World Economics". Professor Bean taught it. Very cool old man, with a huge amount of knowledge. Be ready to write long winded essay answers for tests though. I'd say every prof I had in that degree program was at least a fiscon.

boostnificent

iTrader: (7)

How does anyone stay in business losing $3 million a month? You are dead on about insurance being so expensive because they are being over charged at the hospital level. What happened when the Texas Supreme Court ruled in favor of a capping punitive daamages? Health insurance costs in Texas dropped. We need to push for tort reform, the ability to purchase insurance in other states and tax free healthcare savings accounts.

steveo346

iTrader: (18)

this sucks bolas....like Constance.