Well, The voting is in....
06-28-2012, 08:07 PM
#21
This bill is not only a healthcare bill. Theres many things in that piece of crap that know one even knows about. This is HUGE! Get ready for major taxes on things you never even would think had anything to do with healthcare. America is all done.
06-28-2012, 09:33 PM
#27
Rod, we aren't forced to drive....its a privledge, not a right.
what the govt s doing is involuntary, although the 2 "choices" we have (to get insurance or pay a fine) might seem like a choice its really not. This is being forced upon us, another freedom being removed
what the govt s doing is involuntary, although the 2 "choices" we have (to get insurance or pay a fine) might seem like a choice its really not. This is being forced upon us, another freedom being removed
06-28-2012, 10:44 PM
#29
Both my kids have spent time in the hospital and I paid dearly for it.... Happily. Under this new program they may have not gotten the care they needed.
I would not be surprised to see more expensive private med centers (similar to elective services) providing standard care. I know I would pay for it but then again the govt will probably say that isn't fair to the people on unemployment and require them to see a % of 'disadvantaged patients'.
Really concerned about where this is taking us
I would not be surprised to see more expensive private med centers (similar to elective services) providing standard care. I know I would pay for it but then again the govt will probably say that isn't fair to the people on unemployment and require them to see a % of 'disadvantaged patients'.
Really concerned about where this is taking us
06-29-2012, 12:14 AM
#30
There are an asston of people up there that suffer and die on waiting lists for operations. Things that can be done down here in the matter of weeks. As bad as it is down here now, it will be worse. What the hell does the government run well enough right now that you think they are going to run healthcare properly? It is going to be just as corrupt and abused as any social government program is. Mayne worse. I find it laughable that anyone thinks the government can pull this off, whether you believe in these socialist programs or not. The only thing our government has been truly good at is throwing endless amounts of money at problems, then writing it off.
And I don't think a proper medical system is socialism, but this obamacare nonsense definitely is. This system isn't about getting the country healthcare, its about adding another layer of government control to our lives. These "progressives" don't give a rats *** about giving you affordable healthcare. They want to tighten the belt another notch on the nanny
state.
Our current healthcare system could be greatly improved if there was more of an open competition and there weren't so many crazy regulatory issues. And your particular situation, you need to pay for your own healthcare if you want it. You have a good career, work quite a bit so I would imagine you make a good living. If I were in your situation I would do one of two things:
1. Stop being comfortable in your current job, and find an employer that offers health insurance. Be like the rest of is that "want" health insurance and split the costs with your employer.
2. Stick with your current employer and pay for insurance yourself. Its pricey, but if you want or need it that bad, you will make so. Maybe you will have to sacrifice buying a gun or two every year, or sell one of the jetskis, or not go on an expensive vacation every year. But YOU will be responsible for YOU. the way it should be. Why should I have to help pay for your insurance when I have my own bills and problems, on top of getting taxed to death by the government?
And I don't think a proper medical system is socialism, but this obamacare nonsense definitely is. This system isn't about getting the country healthcare, its about adding another layer of government control to our lives. These "progressives" don't give a rats *** about giving you affordable healthcare. They want to tighten the belt another notch on the nanny
state.
Our current healthcare system could be greatly improved if there was more of an open competition and there weren't so many crazy regulatory issues. And your particular situation, you need to pay for your own healthcare if you want it. You have a good career, work quite a bit so I would imagine you make a good living. If I were in your situation I would do one of two things:
1. Stop being comfortable in your current job, and find an employer that offers health insurance. Be like the rest of is that "want" health insurance and split the costs with your employer.
2. Stick with your current employer and pay for insurance yourself. Its pricey, but if you want or need it that bad, you will make so. Maybe you will have to sacrifice buying a gun or two every year, or sell one of the jetskis, or not go on an expensive vacation every year. But YOU will be responsible for YOU. the way it should be. Why should I have to help pay for your insurance when I have my own bills and problems, on top of getting taxed to death by the government?
06-29-2012, 12:47 AM
#31
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i work 70hrs a week as a cnc machinist, we are a small business and dont have any kind of insurance incentives. i guess i dont 'work my *** off enough' to you. before this i worked at a church as a graphic designer and or insurance 'pkg' was pure crap.
only friends that i know that get badass healthcare thru work are ones that work in govt postions, ie teachers, ect. and ones that work for huge mega oil companies.
i realise there are TONS of people that take advantage of the system, just like welfare. but at the same time, what are you going to do? get rid of it?
i think the healthcare thing could really help a lot of honest people out that cant afford proper procedures. just keep in mind that not everyone is as fortunate as you, and could be legitimate reasons besides 'they are lazy'.
i LOOOOVE hearing extremist like yourself calling an healthcare package like this to help people SOCIALISM. unless you just made a time machine and transported back to 1942 russia you need to STFU about being in a 'socalist' country.
only friends that i know that get badass healthcare thru work are ones that work in govt postions, ie teachers, ect. and ones that work for huge mega oil companies.
i realise there are TONS of people that take advantage of the system, just like welfare. but at the same time, what are you going to do? get rid of it?
i think the healthcare thing could really help a lot of honest people out that cant afford proper procedures. just keep in mind that not everyone is as fortunate as you, and could be legitimate reasons besides 'they are lazy'.
i LOOOOVE hearing extremist like yourself calling an healthcare package like this to help people SOCIALISM. unless you just made a time machine and transported back to 1942 russia you need to STFU about being in a 'socalist' country.
nice vette in your sig by the way. it must be more important than healthcare. dont worry though, since ill be paying for your healthcare in the near future, you will get to keep it and have plenty of money to pay for mods for it.
this broke *** country is going to head straight down the drain with the tax burdon that this will put on everyone. it getting cheaper for companies to operate over seas and continue to invest profits overseas so as not to pay huge penalties for bringing those profits back to the US where it is needed. Osamacare is another reason to do business overseas.
i could rant for hours about the downfalls of Osamacare, but the biggest and most important fact is THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE AGAINST OSAMACARE. being a country with a diplomatic nature, osamacare should not be forced on the citizens which it will burdon.
06-29-2012, 02:07 AM
#32
nice vette in your sig by the way. it must be more important than healthcare. dont worry though, since ill be paying for your healthcare in the near future, you will get to keep it and have plenty of money to pay for mods for it.
this broke *** country is going to head straight down the drain with the tax burdon that this will put on everyone. it getting cheaper for companies to operate over seas and continue to invest profits overseas so as not to pay huge penalties for bringing those profits back to the US where it is needed. Osamacare is another reason to do business overseas.
i could rant for hours about the downfalls of Osamacare, but the biggest and most important fact is THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE AGAINST OSAMACARE. being a country with a diplomatic nature, osamacare should not be forced on the citizens which it will burdon.
this broke *** country is going to head straight down the drain with the tax burdon that this will put on everyone. it getting cheaper for companies to operate over seas and continue to invest profits overseas so as not to pay huge penalties for bringing those profits back to the US where it is needed. Osamacare is another reason to do business overseas.
i could rant for hours about the downfalls of Osamacare, but the biggest and most important fact is THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE AGAINST OSAMACARE. being a country with a diplomatic nature, osamacare should not be forced on the citizens which it will burdon.
06-29-2012, 04:43 AM
#33
I'm thinking of working overseas. You don't have to pay taxed after so many days out of the country. And if I want to come back to the states early I'll follow the millions of illegals in. Then export my *** back to Mexico and fly out to the UAE or wherever I want to work.
06-29-2012, 05:38 AM
#34
I think his comment is pretty relevant. The dude is preaching to us about how good and hard he works, and implies he can't afford healthcare. Hell, im not in dire straights but I can't afford a vette. At least not realistically. It really isn't that much different than the people in line in front of you at the supermarket talking/playing on the newest iphone while swiping their lonestar card. Its nice to know my tax dollars help keep people in trendy smartphones. Sure it sounds like a played out rant but I SEE IT ALL THE TIME. its mind numbing. Our tax dollars should not be spent on people that can afford such luxuries. But it would be impossibly expensive and intrusive to keep up with these things, so our progressive government is happy blindly throwing cash at these people as long as its "helping". And keeping them reliant on the govt.
06-29-2012, 06:41 AM
#36
I think his comment is pretty relevant. The dude is preaching to us about how good and hard he works, and implies he can't afford healthcare. Hell, im not in dire straights but I can't afford a vette. At least not realistically. It really isn't that much different than the people in line in front of you at the supermarket talking/playing on the newest iphone while swiping their lonestar card. Its nice to know my tax dollars help keep people in trendy smartphones. Sure it sounds like a played out rant but I SEE IT ALL THE TIME. its mind numbing. Our tax dollars should not be spent on people that can afford such luxuries. But it would be impossibly expensive and intrusive to keep up with these things, so our progressive government is happy blindly throwing cash at these people as long as its "helping". And keeping them reliant on the govt.
For those out there who don't qualify for medicaid, who are older than 26 and can't get on their parents insurance, or can not afford the premiums already; you still won't be able to afford the premiums and you still won't get healthcare. The only difference now is that you will be taxed for not having coverage. "Not obtaining insurance in 2014 will cost a person $95 or 1% of his or her income, whichever is higher. In 2015, it's $325, or 2% of income. For families, the penalty will be $285 per household or 1% of income, whichever is greater. By 2016, it goes up to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income. Penalties will rise each year." Nice.
The government has now made it a law that you MUST purchase a commodity that THEY deem necessary and if you do not then you will be taxed for it. Don't want to go green with a new government sponsored electric car? You don't have to, but you will be "taxed" a percentage of your income for not "moving forward". Don't want to eat your daily percentage of vegetables and want to eat that hamburger instead? You don't have to, you'll just pay a "tax" yearly for not eating like you should and you'll also pay a higher tax at the restaurant for your hamburger. This sets a precedence that is frightening......
06-29-2012, 06:42 AM
#37
Yea- at most of the jobs I have had it has been about $1000/month through work.
This is very similar to unemployment - there are a few that really needed the extension to survive... Far more that use it as an excuse for little to no motivation to take a job.
It will be abused like all govt programs and the respectable folks that go to work every day and play by the rules will pay for it.
This is very similar to unemployment - there are a few that really needed the extension to survive... Far more that use it as an excuse for little to no motivation to take a job.
It will be abused like all govt programs and the respectable folks that go to work every day and play by the rules will pay for it.
06-29-2012, 07:21 AM
#38
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The issue that no one is talking about here is what will the goverment be charged for services by the provider. Anytime a company is charging the goverment the price tag jumps up. As it is the healthcare system as a whole charges insurance comapnies 2x the price vs a cash paying patient. Just imagine what they would charge the goverment. So a simple visit to a Dr. for flu symptons has an average cash price of $75 for the visit plus the cost of prescriptions. Now that the goverment will be paying the bill expect it to cost closer to $150 or more. Now add all of the "poor" people that will go to Dr. for a simple cold to get free medicine instead of OTC that they have to pay for. A $7 OTC just turned into $150 for taxpayers because the "poor" did not want to spend $7. This adds up to a ton of wasted money that us tax paying citizens are paying into this universal healthcare system. Everyone is talking about people taking advatage of the system which they will. I am personally more worried about the providers taking advatage of the goverment. If I have a job without insurance and can not afford it then I start looking for another job. There is not a shortage of companies offering insurance. You have to decide if insurance is something you must have. If it is then sometimes you have to sacrifice for what is needed. This country has to many people with entitlement issues. If you want it earn it plain and simple. The better choice to Obamacare would have been to allow you to buy insurance from any state. This would bring more competition from providers which would then bring down the rates. But some things just make to much sense.
Last edited by Tribal; 06-29-2012 at 07:31 AM.
06-29-2012, 07:28 AM
#39
What's scary is that with this new law, most companies can opt to drop all coverage for their employees and just pay the fines. Some companies can save millions a year because the cost of the fines is substantially less than the cost they are paying for the provided healthcare.
“If you want to be a slave in life, then continue going around asking for others to do for you. They will oblige, but you find the price is your choices, your freedom, your life itself. They will do for you, and as a result you will be in bondage to them forever, having given your identity away for a paltry price. Then, and only then, you will be a nobody, a slave, because you yourself and nobody else made it so.”
“If you want to be a slave in life, then continue going around asking for others to do for you. They will oblige, but you find the price is your choices, your freedom, your life itself. They will do for you, and as a result you will be in bondage to them forever, having given your identity away for a paltry price. Then, and only then, you will be a nobody, a slave, because you yourself and nobody else made it so.”
06-29-2012, 08:22 AM
#40
Really busy at work today and wish I had more time to read the posts in this thread. But guys, this healthcare bill IS Socialism. It is a huge intrusion, parts of it are unconstitutional, and the cost may bankrupt the country.
I find it laughable that some point to Europe and say that's an example we should emulate. Doesn't anyone watch international news? Aside from Germany, Europe is pretty much broke. Greece, Spain, and Italy are all on the edge of default. Do we really want to copy that nonsense?
The President's goal my be noble. I can't read the man's mind, but if he genuinely feels for the people who struggle to receive/afford healthcare, then I admire his compassion. However, his execution is based on the flawed ideology that the government should take care of it's people to that extent. It just doesn't work.
If he wasn't blinded by his socialist political inclinations, then he would recognize that systems like Geisinger and Kaiser Permanente are the way to go. The "fee for service" system that characterizes most healthcare in America is horrible. Geisinger has it right: Pay doctors a salary and give them bonuses not based on how many unnecessary tests etc. they run but on how successful their outcomes are! Wow, run healthcare like a real business! Amazing.
I find it laughable that some point to Europe and say that's an example we should emulate. Doesn't anyone watch international news? Aside from Germany, Europe is pretty much broke. Greece, Spain, and Italy are all on the edge of default. Do we really want to copy that nonsense?
The President's goal my be noble. I can't read the man's mind, but if he genuinely feels for the people who struggle to receive/afford healthcare, then I admire his compassion. However, his execution is based on the flawed ideology that the government should take care of it's people to that extent. It just doesn't work.
If he wasn't blinded by his socialist political inclinations, then he would recognize that systems like Geisinger and Kaiser Permanente are the way to go. The "fee for service" system that characterizes most healthcare in America is horrible. Geisinger has it right: Pay doctors a salary and give them bonuses not based on how many unnecessary tests etc. they run but on how successful their outcomes are! Wow, run healthcare like a real business! Amazing.