This bill is not only a healthcare bill. Theres many things in that piece of crap that know one even knows about. This is HUGE! Get ready for major taxes on things you never even would think had anything to do with healthcare. America is all done.

 

This is one reason why i will not vote for him come election time, im not going to get in to all the reasons why but someone else will get my vote

 

To sum it up for the left wing communist bastards...congrats you just destroyed what was the last place on earth where there was still freedom. Now go rott in hell!

 

Like I said above as Osama pushed to get this passed he just shot himself in the dick IMO. Romney has a much better chance of winning now....

 

Is auto insurance , that the state makes us carry , or the seatbelt laws that the state makes us follow considered socialism ?

 

Rod, there are alot of things wrong with this country, that we have just let happen to us, much like those examples you posted. You have to try to put your foot down some time and say enough is enough!

 

Rod, we aren't forced to drive....its a privledge, not a right.
what the govt s doing is involuntary, although the 2 "choices" we have (to get insurance or pay a fine) might seem like a choice its really not. This is being forced upon us, another freedom being removed

 

Well said drew....

 

Both my kids have spent time in the hospital and I paid dearly for it.... Happily. Under this new program they may have not gotten the care they needed.

I would not be surprised to see more expensive private med centers (similar to elective services) providing standard care. I know I would pay for it but then again the govt will probably say that isn't fair to the people on unemployment and require them to see a % of 'disadvantaged patients'.

Really concerned about where this is taking us

 

good argument. doing it like a sir.

 

nice vette in your sig by the way. it must be more important than healthcare. dont worry though, since ill be paying for your healthcare in the near future, you will get to keep it and have plenty of money to pay for mods for it.



this broke *** country is going to head straight down the drain with the tax burdon that this will put on everyone. it getting cheaper for companies to operate over seas and continue to invest profits overseas so as not to pay huge penalties for bringing those profits back to the US where it is needed. Osamacare is another reason to do business overseas.

i could rant for hours about the downfalls of Osamacare, but the biggest and most important fact is THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE AGAINST OSAMACARE. being a country with a diplomatic nature, osamacare should not be forced on the citizens which it will burdon.

 

Douche move, dont make personal comments.

 

I'm thinking of working overseas. You don't have to pay taxed after so many days out of the country. And if I want to come back to the states early I'll follow the millions of illegals in. Then export my *** back to Mexico and fly out to the UAE or wherever I want to work.

 

I think his comment is pretty relevant. The dude is preaching to us about how good and hard he works, and implies he can't afford healthcare. Hell, im not in dire straights but I can't afford a vette. At least not realistically. It really isn't that much different than the people in line in front of you at the supermarket talking/playing on the newest iphone while swiping their lonestar card. Its nice to know my tax dollars help keep people in trendy smartphones. Sure it sounds like a played out rant but I SEE IT ALL THE TIME. its mind numbing. Our tax dollars should not be spent on people that can afford such luxuries. But it would be impossibly expensive and intrusive to keep up with these things, so our progressive government is happy blindly throwing cash at these people as long as its "helping". And keeping them reliant on the govt.

 

FYI me and the wife + 3 kids is 1700 a month for private healthcare. How much is a ZR1 payment? Used?

 

A big difference, besides what dreww said, is that insurance companies can still charge you based on your risk assessment. That's also what Healthcare providers were doing. In other countries everyone pays one flat tax (well, some pay a tax. Others mooch off of the welfare state.) and they are all covered. That's like me paying the same high insurance premium as the jackass teen who wrecks a car once a month. Why should we both pay the same fee when the teen is more of a liability behind the wheel than me? This is the way health care used to be in our country. You pay a higher premium if you are more of a risk. Don't want to pay a high premium? Get in shape, don't be a fat slob who is a risk for numerous cancers, heart disease, diabetes, etc. Why should society have to pay because you don't care about your health?

While I wouldn't lump XtremeBBQ in the group with those who are abusing other government programs, I get what you're saying. I feel the difference is that I just don't think that XtremeBBQ views healthcare as a priority. It's not wrong, it would be like not wanting to pay for cable and save some money every month. It's not something he worries about enough to change. I was like that for a long time. After a while I got covered at my local hospital, which is known for gouging premiums since they are the only hospital in the area, and I paid around $150 a month for coverage. It was good enough for me and I was happy. I paid a $25 copay for a doctor visit and I got generic prescriptions for free and a discount on name brand. I didn't complain, I just made it a priority and paid it.

For those out there who don't qualify for medicaid, who are older than 26 and can't get on their parents insurance, or can not afford the premiums already; you still won't be able to afford the premiums and you still won't get healthcare. The only difference now is that you will be taxed for not having coverage. "Not obtaining insurance in 2014 will cost a person $95 or 1% of his or her income, whichever is higher. In 2015, it's $325, or 2% of income. For families, the penalty will be $285 per household or 1% of income, whichever is greater. By 2016, it goes up to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income. Penalties will rise each year." Nice.

The government has now made it a law that you MUST purchase a commodity that THEY deem necessary and if you do not then you will be taxed for it. Don't want to go green with a new government sponsored electric car? You don't have to, but you will be "taxed" a percentage of your income for not "moving forward". Don't want to eat your daily percentage of vegetables and want to eat that hamburger instead? You don't have to, you'll just pay a "tax" yearly for not eating like you should and you'll also pay a higher tax at the restaurant for your hamburger. This sets a precedence that is frightening......

 

Yea- at most of the jobs I have had it has been about $1000/month through work.

This is very similar to unemployment - there are a few that really needed the extension to survive... Far more that use it as an excuse for little to no motivation to take a job.

It will be abused like all govt programs and the respectable folks that go to work every day and play by the rules will pay for it.

 

The issue that no one is talking about here is what will the goverment be charged for services by the provider. Anytime a company is charging the goverment the price tag jumps up. As it is the healthcare system as a whole charges insurance comapnies 2x the price vs a cash paying patient. Just imagine what they would charge the goverment. So a simple visit to a Dr. for flu symptons has an average cash price of $75 for the visit plus the cost of prescriptions. Now that the goverment will be paying the bill expect it to cost closer to $150 or more. Now add all of the "poor" people that will go to Dr. for a simple cold to get free medicine instead of OTC that they have to pay for. A $7 OTC just turned into $150 for taxpayers because the "poor" did not want to spend $7. This adds up to a ton of wasted money that us tax paying citizens are paying into this universal healthcare system. Everyone is talking about people taking advatage of the system which they will. I am personally more worried about the providers taking advatage of the goverment. If I have a job without insurance and can not afford it then I start looking for another job. There is not a shortage of companies offering insurance. You have to decide if insurance is something you must have. If it is then sometimes you have to sacrifice for what is needed. This country has to many people with entitlement issues. If you want it earn it plain and simple. The better choice to Obamacare would have been to allow you to buy insurance from any state. This would bring more competition from providers which would then bring down the rates. But some things just make to much sense.

 

What's scary is that with this new law, most companies can opt to drop all coverage for their employees and just pay the fines. Some companies can save millions a year because the cost of the fines is substantially less than the cost they are paying for the provided healthcare.

“If you want to be a slave in life, then continue going around asking for others to do for you. They will oblige, but you find the price is your choices, your freedom, your life itself. They will do for you, and as a result you will be in bondage to them forever, having given your identity away for a paltry price. Then, and only then, you will be a nobody, a slave, because you yourself and nobody else made it so.”

 

Really busy at work today and wish I had more time to read the posts in this thread. But guys, this healthcare bill IS Socialism. It is a huge intrusion, parts of it are unconstitutional, and the cost may bankrupt the country.

I find it laughable that some point to Europe and say that's an example we should emulate. Doesn't anyone watch international news? Aside from Germany, Europe is pretty much broke. Greece, Spain, and Italy are all on the edge of default. Do we really want to copy that nonsense?

The President's goal my be noble. I can't read the man's mind, but if he genuinely feels for the people who struggle to receive/afford healthcare, then I admire his compassion. However, his execution is based on the flawed ideology that the government should take care of it's people to that extent. It just doesn't work.

If he wasn't blinded by his socialist political inclinations, then he would recognize that systems like Geisinger and Kaiser Permanente are the way to go. The "fee for service" system that characterizes most healthcare in America is horrible. Geisinger has it right: Pay doctors a salary and give them bonuses not based on how many unnecessary tests etc. they run but on how successful their outcomes are! Wow, run healthcare like a real business! Amazing.