How life started?
09-15-2012, 11:33 PM
#21
no reason to get defensive. was trying to understand your background a bit.
what kind of other religions have you done studies in out of curiosity?
i'm definitely not 'set in my ways'. i just logic and reason to determine if something is believable or not.
some of the issues i have with believing your book:
people living hundreds of years
people surviving inside of whales for days
dead people being raised and walking around to greet their family (zombies?)
the guy in charge has a bear come down from a mountain and kills a group of kids that are making fun of another kid
keep in mind thats all bundled in the same book as the 'be nice to your neighbor' parts.
a very odd book indeed. so odd that its funny how 90% of it doesnt get taught in church. they love to quote corinthians, acts, ect. wonder how many people would stay in the church if they went from the front to the back of the book. theres a reason you dont see it done very often. they lube people up with all the feel good generic stuff, so when you dig deeper you dont question all the off the wall bronze age goat herder written stuff.
what kind of other religions have you done studies in out of curiosity?
i'm definitely not 'set in my ways'. i just logic and reason to determine if something is believable or not.
some of the issues i have with believing your book:
people living hundreds of years
people surviving inside of whales for days
dead people being raised and walking around to greet their family (zombies?)
the guy in charge has a bear come down from a mountain and kills a group of kids that are making fun of another kid
keep in mind thats all bundled in the same book as the 'be nice to your neighbor' parts.
a very odd book indeed. so odd that its funny how 90% of it doesnt get taught in church. they love to quote corinthians, acts, ect. wonder how many people would stay in the church if they went from the front to the back of the book. theres a reason you dont see it done very often. they lube people up with all the feel good generic stuff, so when you dig deeper you dont question all the off the wall bronze age goat herder written stuff.
09-15-2012, 11:56 PM
#24
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i wasn't trying to sound defensive, my bad, just engaging in online conversation......i agree that there are parts of the Bible that are a stretch for me too.....the Old Testament is brutal, as it was written in brutal times.....it sounds horrible to us now to read some of the blood stories, but death and struggle was much more a part of the everyday life experience for people in those times......
i'd equate it to the creepy uncle who used to sodomize you as a kid and now he's a decent guy. you want to go hang out with him now though?
09-16-2012, 12:21 AM
#25
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It sure went down a few grade levels in here. Thought this was a cosmology/philosophy thread? Also, coming from someone who has read several of the holy books of differing religions - belief hinges on one notion. That notion of course being the existence of supernatural events. I won't get into the discussion on the OT as there is alot of misunderstanding going on in here.
Back on the topic at hand, I highly recommend any of Hawkings work as good discussion on the topic of the big-bang. Also other philosophical works include "There is no/a god" by Tony Flew, and several books by Alvin Plantinga and others.
Back on the topic at hand, I highly recommend any of Hawkings work as good discussion on the topic of the big-bang. Also other philosophical works include "There is no/a god" by Tony Flew, and several books by Alvin Plantinga and others.
09-16-2012, 12:25 AM
#26
really?....same God in the OT and the NT...............check 
if your car belongs to you, is it not yours to smash it into a wall if YOU decide?.....is it not yours to destroy if you want?......if you owned 1000 cars, could you not park them in a field and play destruction derby until there was nothing left?.....if you buy fries at McDonald's and eat some, but don't want the rest, are they not yours to throw away?......do you feel like you'd need to explain yourself to some guy who lives in the year 4024 and thinks you're creepy why you threw them away?.....should you owe him anything if he doesn't understand why you decided one day to have a field full of busted *** cars?.....very juvenile explanation, but you get it
in the book, The Lord led HIS people, just as a football coach leads his team to victory.....very juvenile explanation, but you get it
most people read a few paragraphs of the King James version and are lost....i am one of them......with all of the "thou" and "art" talk, it's hard to follow.....my Bible is a New Century Version.....it's written in the kind of English that people talk in these days.....much easier to follow, much easier to gather the underlying message from
if your car belongs to you, is it not yours to smash it into a wall if YOU decide?.....is it not yours to destroy if you want?......if you owned 1000 cars, could you not park them in a field and play destruction derby until there was nothing left?.....if you buy fries at McDonald's and eat some, but don't want the rest, are they not yours to throw away?......do you feel like you'd need to explain yourself to some guy who lives in the year 4024 and thinks you're creepy why you threw them away?.....should you owe him anything if he doesn't understand why you decided one day to have a field full of busted *** cars?.....very juvenile explanation, but you get it
in the book, The Lord led HIS people, just as a football coach leads his team to victory.....very juvenile explanation, but you get it
most people read a few paragraphs of the King James version and are lost....i am one of them......with all of the "thou" and "art" talk, it's hard to follow.....my Bible is a New Century Version.....it's written in the kind of English that people talk in these days.....much easier to follow, much easier to gather the underlying message from
And then of course there's the problem of evil..
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Last edited by 409CISecondGen; 09-16-2012 at 12:32 AM.
09-16-2012, 12:31 AM
#27
Certainly not if the cars were sentient and had feeling. Your God is not very moral if he goes around smashing up humans like your analogy suggests. If I were an omnipotent and omnibenevolent god I wouldn't treat my creation like cattle or french fries.
And then of course there's the problem of evil..
And then of course there's the problem of evil..
09-16-2012, 12:35 AM
#28
Children are people's creation, and yet we cannot simply drown them when they misbehave. If your god is real and did do the things in the old testament then he is a tyrant. Regardless, until someone provides evidence for your God, it is akin to arguing what color the invisible unicorn or Russel's teapot is.
09-16-2012, 12:47 AM
#29
It sure went down a few grade levels in here. Thought this was a cosmology/philosophy thread? Also, coming from someone who has read several of the holy books of differing religions - belief hinges on one notion. That notion of course being the existence of supernatural events. I won't get into the discussion on the OT as there is alot of misunderstanding going on in here.
Back on the topic at hand, I highly recommend any of Hawkings work as good discussion on the topic of the big-bang. Also other philosophical works include "There is no/a god" by Tony Flew, and several books by Alvin Plantinga and others.
Back on the topic at hand, I highly recommend any of Hawkings work as good discussion on the topic of the big-bang. Also other philosophical works include "There is no/a god" by Tony Flew, and several books by Alvin Plantinga and others.
09-16-2012, 12:50 AM
#30
I would like to think an all powerful, all knowing, perfectly good, timeless being such as the Judeo-Christian God would not simply do with his creation 'whatever he wants.'
Children are people's creation, and yet we cannot simply drown them when they misbehave. If your god is real and did do the things in the old testament then he is a tyrant. Regardless, until someone provides evidence for your God, it is akin to arguing what color the invisible unicorn or Russel's teapot is.
Children are people's creation, and yet we cannot simply drown them when they misbehave. If your god is real and did do the things in the old testament then he is a tyrant. Regardless, until someone provides evidence for your God, it is akin to arguing what color the invisible unicorn or Russel's teapot is.
09-16-2012, 12:52 AM
#31
this is why these kinds of topics usually get locked on Tech......some ******* guy always has to come along and talk **** or say something insulting....if there is misunderstanding and you know all things, why don't you set us straight with your understanding instead on plugging Stephen Hawkins......again
Why is it cool for you to link to your stories about a born again christian but not cool for him to reference someone who actually studies and attempts to answer how the universe was made, the very question the OP asked.
look, i'm trying to discuss these things the best i can, but i can't make everyone else understand things you're already dead set against.....you talk about an all powerful, all knowing diety, then you apply human laws to him?.....we are bound by laws, yes, but if the God you just explained exists, are you prepared to enforce laws against him?
Last edited by 409CISecondGen; 09-16-2012 at 01:01 AM.
09-16-2012, 12:55 AM
#32
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Oh the problem of evil, not actually much of a problem when you consider it was wrought over 3000 years ago. Even the judeo-christian perspective has a definitive solution for it. We are the cause of evil not God, and he has allowed evil to take place for a greater purpose.
Or let's consider the hindu solution to the problem. God could be arbitrary. It is not without possibility that a creative being could make something out of whimsy only to watch it take its own course?
Buddhist? Let's try that one. Evil is an illusion of the mind meant to keep you from a higher state of awareness. Evil, good, and all thoughts of self must be done away with to achieve perfection.
Shall I go on?
Or let's consider the hindu solution to the problem. God could be arbitrary. It is not without possibility that a creative being could make something out of whimsy only to watch it take its own course?
Buddhist? Let's try that one. Evil is an illusion of the mind meant to keep you from a higher state of awareness. Evil, good, and all thoughts of self must be done away with to achieve perfection.
Shall I go on?
09-16-2012, 12:57 AM
#33
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I was raised as a PK (Preachers Kid) and had the Bible and the "Word of God" stuffed into my brain as soon as I was born. After becoming a teenager the rebelious side of being a hormonal infested punk kid, I choose to do my own research on the "Word of God and its methology.
Continual research and study into my college years with the History of Christianity. In the end I came to a conclusion that the Supreme Being, God concept didnt make sense to me.
It all comes down to "Faith", and as so well put in the movie- The Da Vinci Code, Faith is something that I have yet to recieve. But reading about philosophers having discussions 100's of years ago saying with out faith into some sort of human conception the human race would no longer succeed. In short, without some sort of existence after death or living by a higher standard, humans wouldnt have nothing to live for and chaos would ensue. Basicly the human race would kill itself....
I do belive that religon and the concept of God(s) and such beliefs has keep the human races moral compass in a positive direction. If someones core fundamentals needs some sort of spiritual faith to get them up and through life everyday, by all means do it... My father was this way, he said he couldnt live with God in his life. BTW- He died a horrible death with cancer.
Me- I see a world with many Gods, people killing each other in the name of Gods, disease infected babies, starving people, people praying to Gods to win sporting events, to win the lottery, Men of God molesting children, asking God to bless the USA....
I see Christians, Baptist, Methodist, Cathloics, Jehovas Witness's (knocking on my door every Saturday morning), Jewish, Budist, the list gos on and on---- all claiming the correct path to God...... I dont need it in my life, I get up try to be the best person I can that day. And when it my time to die, its my time.....
BTW- My wife is a devout catholic, she goes to church twice a day 4 days a week and gets up EVERY morning at 6:00am and prays for hours....
Continual research and study into my college years with the History of Christianity. In the end I came to a conclusion that the Supreme Being, God concept didnt make sense to me.
It all comes down to "Faith", and as so well put in the movie- The Da Vinci Code, Faith is something that I have yet to recieve. But reading about philosophers having discussions 100's of years ago saying with out faith into some sort of human conception the human race would no longer succeed. In short, without some sort of existence after death or living by a higher standard, humans wouldnt have nothing to live for and chaos would ensue. Basicly the human race would kill itself....
I do belive that religon and the concept of God(s) and such beliefs has keep the human races moral compass in a positive direction. If someones core fundamentals needs some sort of spiritual faith to get them up and through life everyday, by all means do it... My father was this way, he said he couldnt live with God in his life. BTW- He died a horrible death with cancer.
Me- I see a world with many Gods, people killing each other in the name of Gods, disease infected babies, starving people, people praying to Gods to win sporting events, to win the lottery, Men of God molesting children, asking God to bless the USA....
I see Christians, Baptist, Methodist, Cathloics, Jehovas Witness's (knocking on my door every Saturday morning), Jewish, Budist, the list gos on and on---- all claiming the correct path to God...... I dont need it in my life, I get up try to be the best person I can that day. And when it my time to die, its my time.....
BTW- My wife is a devout catholic, she goes to church twice a day 4 days a week and gets up EVERY morning at 6:00am and prays for hours....
09-16-2012, 12:59 AM
#34
Oh the problem of evil, not actually much of a problem when you consider it was wrought over 3000 years ago. Even the judeo-christian perspective has a definitive solution for it. We are the cause of evil not God, and he has allowed evil to take place for a greater purpose.
Or let's consider the hindu solution to the problem. God could be arbitrary. It is not without possibility that a creative being could make something out of whimsy only to watch it take its own course?
Buddhist? Let's try that one. Evil is an illusion of the mind meant to keep you from a higher state of awareness. Evil, good, and all thoughts of self must be done away with to achieve perfection.
Shall I go on?
Or let's consider the hindu solution to the problem. God could be arbitrary. It is not without possibility that a creative being could make something out of whimsy only to watch it take its own course?
Buddhist? Let's try that one. Evil is an illusion of the mind meant to keep you from a higher state of awareness. Evil, good, and all thoughts of self must be done away with to achieve perfection.
Shall I go on?
09-16-2012, 01:03 AM
#35
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Let me set something straight. I am a Christian, but I have studied cosmology and I believe science is just as much truth as 1+1=2 or the historical records of archaeology.
I have read the bible, I have studied it at one of the premier bible schools in the country, I can see past the misconceptions on both sides in here and I don't have the time or wherewithal to correct it. So I stay on topic.
I have read the bible, I have studied it at one of the premier bible schools in the country, I can see past the misconceptions on both sides in here and I don't have the time or wherewithal to correct it. So I stay on topic.
09-16-2012, 01:06 AM
#37
i offered her perspective to help explain my first post....that's it.....i didn't use it to jump in and say that the people talking in this thread were stupid for talking about things that she spoke against......i didn't say that anyone has "misunderstanding" for not agreeing with her....
09-16-2012, 01:09 AM
#39
Like I said, It's all kind of moot anyways. Until evidence is shown to point towards a supernatural being, I will continue to not believe in supernatural beings.
oh, so now you know everything that the woman in my link has ever read?......she has never studied anything, right?.....so you have already read her entire page and debunked all of her thinking???
i offered her perspective to help explain my first post....that's it.....i didn't use it to jump in and say that the people talking in this thread were stupid for talking about things that she spoke against......i didn't say that anyone has "misunderstanding" for not agreeing with her....
i offered her perspective to help explain my first post....that's it.....i didn't use it to jump in and say that the people talking in this thread were stupid for talking about things that she spoke against......i didn't say that anyone has "misunderstanding" for not agreeing with her....