Obama backed A123 battery manufacture declares bankruptcy
10-17-2012, 01:41 PM
#41
Yea no corporation has ever gone bankrupt. Your argument is a red herring, referencing the (republican) deficit to distract from the fact that corporations do not always act in the best long term interest of the economy.
Last edited by 409CISecondGen; 10-17-2012 at 01:47 PM.
10-17-2012, 02:47 PM
#46
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Precisely why free birth control should be a human right.
When you have a child you are increasing the number of persons on earth and thus by extension creating more demand, driving up prices, taking away resources from people who are still alive, and driving up costs for everyone, creating more poverty and suffering.
I don't want people to stop having children, I want them to stop having so damn many. 1 Billion is probably a good sustainable number. We have to choose between a high birth rate and a high death rate.
When you have a child you are increasing the number of persons on earth and thus by extension creating more demand, driving up prices, taking away resources from people who are still alive, and driving up costs for everyone, creating more poverty and suffering.
I don't want people to stop having children, I want them to stop having so damn many. 1 Billion is probably a good sustainable number. We have to choose between a high birth rate and a high death rate.
Yes, corporations have gone bankrupt. You see, thats what happens when you run out of money and are no longer solvent. They follow the natural ebb and flow of the business world. That is until the Government gets involved, prints more money that it doesnt have and then gives it to those failing businesses to prop them up for a little while longer until they run out of money again and the cycle repeats itself and all due to the fact that Presidents LIE and say that they arent going to allow any lobbyists to have any positions in the Administration (take note: I am not singling out Obama here.... both sides do it and I think its deplorable).
This is what makes my blood boil a lot. If you prefer a different style of a governing body, there are plenty of places in the world that do exactly what you desire. Feel free to get on an airplane and head to these magical lands that promise to take care of you, all while your standard of living drops like the Titanic. What you are proposing has already been done... a lot... and it NEVER works out for the non-ruling class of citizens. It turns out the same every time.... any means to protect yourself is banned, speech against the ruling body gets you tossed in jail and the standard of living for the worker bees declines greatly. When the Government owns production it doesnt have to give a **** about you. What are you going to do? Quit? And do what.... go work for one of the OTHER State owned corporations?
Id say that, as a whole, we Americans have it pretty damn good compared to these other places that already practice what you preach.
This pretty much sums up my opinion of what is going on with 'Left-Libertarians'.
Last edited by DSIM; 10-17-2012 at 02:55 PM. Reason: Added the 'Take note'
10-17-2012, 04:05 PM
#48
See, thats where we agree on some and disagree on others. I dont think its the governments job to solve a problem like that. I think its up to the people to solve that problem. This whole Narc complex everyone has when someone rats them out because they chose to act like an *** and/or break the law is pure kaka.
Yes, corporations have gone bankrupt. You see, thats what happens when you run out of money and are no longer solvent. They follow the natural ebb and flow of the business world. That is until the Government gets involved, prints more money that it doesnt have and then gives it to those failing businesses to prop them up for a little while longer until they run out of money again and the cycle repeats itself and all due to the fact that Presidents LIE and say that they arent going to allow any lobbyists to have any positions in the Administration (take note: I am not singling out Obama here.... both sides do it and I think its deplorable).
This is what makes my blood boil a lot. If you prefer a different style of a governing body, there are plenty of places in the world that do exactly what you desire. Feel free to get on an airplane and head to these magical lands that promise to take care of you, all while your standard of living drops like the Titanic. What you are proposing has already been done... a lot... and it NEVER works out for the non-ruling class of citizens. It turns out the same every time.... any means to protect yourself is banned, speech against the ruling body gets you tossed in jail and the standard of living for the worker bees declines greatly. When the Government owns production it doesnt have to give a **** about you. What are you going to do? Quit? And do what.... go work for one of the OTHER State owned corporations?
Id say that, as a whole, we Americans have it pretty damn good compared to these other places that already practice what you preach.
This pretty much sums up my opinion of what is going on with 'Left-Libertarians'.
Yes, corporations have gone bankrupt. You see, thats what happens when you run out of money and are no longer solvent. They follow the natural ebb and flow of the business world. That is until the Government gets involved, prints more money that it doesnt have and then gives it to those failing businesses to prop them up for a little while longer until they run out of money again and the cycle repeats itself and all due to the fact that Presidents LIE and say that they arent going to allow any lobbyists to have any positions in the Administration (take note: I am not singling out Obama here.... both sides do it and I think its deplorable).
This is what makes my blood boil a lot. If you prefer a different style of a governing body, there are plenty of places in the world that do exactly what you desire. Feel free to get on an airplane and head to these magical lands that promise to take care of you, all while your standard of living drops like the Titanic. What you are proposing has already been done... a lot... and it NEVER works out for the non-ruling class of citizens. It turns out the same every time.... any means to protect yourself is banned, speech against the ruling body gets you tossed in jail and the standard of living for the worker bees declines greatly. When the Government owns production it doesnt have to give a **** about you. What are you going to do? Quit? And do what.... go work for one of the OTHER State owned corporations?
Id say that, as a whole, we Americans have it pretty damn good compared to these other places that already practice what you preach.
This pretty much sums up my opinion of what is going on with 'Left-Libertarians'.
Irony is people who drive their vehicles on public roads mentioning what a stupid, commie, marxist, un-american idea those very same roads are.
That is completely separate from the fact that resources would be generally less scarce and people better off if there were fewer people on Earth.
Last edited by 409CISecondGen; 10-17-2012 at 04:20 PM.
10-17-2012, 04:07 PM
#49
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It absolutely worked! The country got better, stronger and smarter after the great depression and it will get better, stronger and smarter after we get this idiot out of office this time around also. Companies who f'd up and over extended themselves went out of business (or should have) and new companies take their place where a continuing business need still exists (it's call free enterprise). In the case of GM, they more than likely would have still come out of bankruptcy without goverment intervention and there would still be a company called General Motors. There just would not have been such a capitulation to the unions and other suppliers. They would have had to bite the bullet just like everyone else.
If you like where things are heading, why don't you go overseas and ask the French citizens how they like giving up 70% of their hard earned income and see if they're satisfied with how things are going? In fact, I would challenge you to find ANY citizen that lives in an economy like you are advocating and ask them if they are satisfied. Even the people who do nothing and just live off the government dime aren't satisfied with the service and treatment they get. That's why socialist economies don't survive. Can you give me an example of a good one?
If you like where things are heading, why don't you go overseas and ask the French citizens how they like giving up 70% of their hard earned income and see if they're satisfied with how things are going? In fact, I would challenge you to find ANY citizen that lives in an economy like you are advocating and ask them if they are satisfied. Even the people who do nothing and just live off the government dime aren't satisfied with the service and treatment they get. That's why socialist economies don't survive. Can you give me an example of a good one?
10-17-2012, 04:16 PM
#53
"Free" meaning making it a burden on society as a whole instead of a burden on the individual because all of society will benefit instead of only those intelligent, mature, and wealthy enough to make it a priority.
Last edited by 409CISecondGen; 10-17-2012 at 04:28 PM.
10-17-2012, 04:26 PM
#54
It absolutely worked! The country got better, stronger and smarter after the great depression and it will get better, stronger and smarter after we get this idiot out of office this time around also. Companies who f'd up and over extended themselves went out of business (or should have) and new companies take their place where a continuing business need still exists (it's call free enterprise). In the case of GM, they more than likely would have still come out of bankruptcy without goverment intervention and there would still be a company called General Motors. There just would not have been such a capitulation to the unions and other suppliers. They would have had to bite the bullet just like everyone else.
If you like where things are heading, why don't you go overseas and ask the French citizens how they like giving up 70% of their hard earned income and see if they're satisfied with how things are going? In fact, I would challenge you to find ANY citizen that lives in an economy like you are advocating and ask them if they are satisfied. Even the people who do nothing and just live off the government dime aren't satisfied with the service and treatment they get. That's why socialist economies don't survive. Can you give me an example of a good one?
If you like where things are heading, why don't you go overseas and ask the French citizens how they like giving up 70% of their hard earned income and see if they're satisfied with how things are going? In fact, I would challenge you to find ANY citizen that lives in an economy like you are advocating and ask them if they are satisfied. Even the people who do nothing and just live off the government dime aren't satisfied with the service and treatment they get. That's why socialist economies don't survive. Can you give me an example of a good one?
Secondly, I do believe Scandinavia is leading in the happiness index. Of course that correlation doesn't imply causation. It could one of many, or a combination of factors. Lack of religiosity for instance.
10-17-2012, 04:30 PM
#55
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I never said capitalism was completely wrong. Similarly, it's extremely small minded to believe it's the absolute solution. Absolute equality systems fail because there is no incentive and completely lassie faire systems accumulate wealth at the top in order to disadvantage the less fortunate. What is needed is a mix between command/control and capitalism. To regulate business so that they do not engage in behavior that is in long term destructive and counterproductive. And to ensure that the wealthy do not purchase themselves success but that people get their through their own achievement. Not equality, but equal opportunity to succeed.
First they came for the corporations,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a corporation.
Then they came for the rednecks,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a redneck.
Then they came for the Republicans,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Republican.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
10-17-2012, 04:38 PM
#56
Id say we have quite the laissez faire system going currently. As long as your company has a lobbyist you can be labeled as 'too big to fail' and the government will bail you out. When you create a safety net such as that, thats when you get the laziness. Ergo, dont create the safety net and let the companies fail as they deserve to.
Dont be so obtuse. This is nowhere in the same realm as forcing companies to make birth control free, or regulating the market more, or handing out free cell phones, or handing our more food stamps than any time in our history. Without those very same roads, Government would not be able to conduct its business. Is free birth control necessary for the government to function?
This is the gateway to other things being taken away at our expense.
Dont be so obtuse. This is nowhere in the same realm as forcing companies to make birth control free, or regulating the market more, or handing out free cell phones, or handing our more food stamps than any time in our history. Without those very same roads, Government would not be able to conduct its business. Is free birth control necessary for the government to function?
This is the gateway to other things being taken away at our expense.
I don't believe I ever advocated for free cellphones, the bailouts, etc. To me, these seem like perverted band aids to fix a broken system that is caused by the inherent problems with capitalism: Namely that money makes you more likely to make money and that the process of making money is often by stepping on the backs of the lower classes.
All I claimed was that businesses in a completely free market do not always have the long term interests of the people in mind, only relatively short term self-serving profits(otherwise how do you explain strip mining for instance) and that the state(the people) should ensure that every woman should be able to control when she get's pregnant, because it will reduce the birth rate making resources less scarce.
10-17-2012, 04:39 PM
#57
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Planet_Index
Interesting to note that most of the top 10 is pretty religious (and Christian at that... well except for Vietnam) and not considered to be 1st world countries.
10-17-2012, 04:46 PM
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Its not cold war propaganda, its a red herring tossed out to justify all sorts of unnecessary social programs
And its all aided by the Government... which you want more of. Without all the cronyism in Washington DC I think Capitalism would work better as nobody would have an 'in' with the lawmakers.
Compared to what, people that make the laws that are up for election every 4 years? At what point in the history of the Earth has there been a society that has had a 'completely free market'? You are fooling yourself if Government is looking out for [I]your[I/] best interests instead of their short term self-serving profits. Dont believe me? Go ask any elected official to introduce a bill that bans lobbying and see what happens.
I don't believe I ever advocated for free cellphones, the bailouts, etc. To me, these seem like perverted band aids to fix a broken system that is caused by the inherent problems with capitalism: Namely that money makes you more likely to make money and that the process of making money is often by stepping on the backs of the lower classes.
Compared to what, people that make the laws that are up for election every 4 years? At what point in the history of the Earth has there been a society that has had a 'completely free market'? You are fooling yourself if Government is looking out for [I]your[I/] best interests instead of their short term self-serving profits. Dont believe me? Go ask any elected official to introduce a bill that bans lobbying and see what happens.
10-17-2012, 04:52 PM
#59
Unless what you are a talking about is different....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Planet_Index
Interesting to note that most of the top 10 is pretty religious (and Christian at that... well except for Vietnam) and not considered to be 1st world countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Planet_Index
Interesting to note that most of the top 10 is pretty religious (and Christian at that... well except for Vietnam) and not considered to be 1st world countries.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1408787.html
My point was there are many factors that contribute to happiness. Impossible to narrow it down to a single economic system, religion, etc...
Also, religiosity vs income levels:
You want to know the secret to happiness?
http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert..._we_happy.html
