Learning to Tune Question
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Learning to Tune Question As of late I have had a few issues in the area with tuners. I have made it a goal to just try to learn how to tune my own car, and if that leads to tuning other peoples cars then so be it. So there are alot of "tuning schools" online. One that has been recommended to me was The Tuning School. The online classes are a bit high dollar, but if they are worth it I am all in. I already have the HP Tuner software, and that seems to be what they try to focus on, which is nice b/c it seems most other people that are in my circle also use HP Tuners.
There is also HP Academy which is cheaper, but they seem to focus on many different platforms. I am just trying to get the general feel for which direction I should head. All opinions are welcome here. Thanks
There is also HP Academy which is cheaper, but they seem to focus on many different platforms. I am just trying to get the general feel for which direction I should head. All opinions are welcome here. Thanks
I have been tuning for several years and have attended Thetuningschool out of Florida. It was good for a beginner because they show you decent methods of tuning W/O a dyno. That being said, there is no great method of tuning W/O a dyno in my opinion and many others. For tuning your buddies work truck or bolt on car, yeah OK ho for it. Once you get into some serious modifications a load bearing dyno is a key tool. Yes, you can tune W/O one as long as you can find some decent traction but not as good. If you re looking for a great tuner, there are many in this area but since you have no location listed, nobody can tell you where to look. I even take my own cars down to Victoria to visit Pat G because it is more cost effective than going to the track for testing and hoping it isn't over crowded or shitty track prep or etc., etc., etc.
I have had several cars tuned on the dyno and I have a question. They have all pulled from 3rd gear and run until it hits the Rev limiter, could you or would you get the same results if you pulled it from 2nd gear and hit the limiter?
Instead of dropping the hammer in the 3rd gear, drop it in 2nd gear and do the tune, what that yield the same results?
Disclaimer: I am not a tuner, I have had cars & trucks tuned on Dyno's from experienced and very good tuning professionals. I am just asking a question so don't crush my nuts if you think its dumb question!!
Chad
Instead of dropping the hammer in the 3rd gear, drop it in 2nd gear and do the tune, what that yield the same results?
Disclaimer: I am not a tuner, I have had cars & trucks tuned on Dyno's from experienced and very good tuning professionals. I am just asking a question so don't crush my nuts if you think its dumb question!!
Chad
Last edited by ss4chad; Feb 22, 2018 at 12:28 PM.
#2. If during the tune you decided to only go to say 6200 RPM's, well before the Rev Limiter and wheel speed of lets say 100 mph on the dyno. Would it be the same as turning 7500 RPM's and 150 mph Dyno Speed?
Would all of the parameters be equal no matter the RPM or Speed? Fuel-Air, Spark, Timing, Ignition and whatever goes into a tune?
Please note the DISCLAIMER in previous post!
Chad
Would all of the parameters be equal no matter the RPM or Speed? Fuel-Air, Spark, Timing, Ignition and whatever goes into a tune?
Please note the DISCLAIMER in previous post!
Chad
Last edited by ss4chad; Feb 22, 2018 at 12:27 PM.
As of late I have had a few issues in the area with tuners. I have made it a goal to just try to learn how to tune my own car, and if that leads to tuning other peoples cars then so be it. So there are alot of "tuning schools" online. One that has been recommended to me was The Tuning School. The online classes are a bit high dollar, but if they are worth it I am all in. I already have the HP Tuner software, and that seems to be what they try to focus on, which is nice b/c it seems most other people that are in my circle also use HP Tuners.
There is also HP Academy which is cheaper, but they seem to focus on many different platforms. I am just trying to get the general feel for which direction I should head. All opinions are welcome here. Thanks
There is also HP Academy which is cheaper, but they seem to focus on many different platforms. I am just trying to get the general feel for which direction I should head. All opinions are welcome here. Thanks
Precision and anti-sloppy comes with data collection. You don't learn to tune it as much as you collect data and make changes so that the new data looks better and better and better and better... the beauty of datalogging, reviewing that data and using it efficiently with formulas and spreadsheets so you don't have to fool with it for hours and hours.... there is the hard way and the easy way. The easy way is have laptop in car for an hour, drive however you want, stop and copy the log into excel, copy paste again a new chart into the ECU program and you are done in 3 minutes with the "tuning". Hard way is spending hours at home reviewing logs and trying to make sense of what was happening with your own brain. Both methods work just remember that the easy way is also easy to get, other people have already figured out those formulas and have shared them freely. So thank the community and go use them IMO...
ss4chad, The reason for using third gear is to lock the converter and because 3rd gear in an automatic is 1:1 drive. In a standard, 4th gear is 1:1. To answer your question, yes you can tune (data log) in 2nd gear.
Thanks Cody,
1:1 in third, could you command the trans to go 1:1 in 2nd gear similar to making the converter lockup? Therefore mimicking the same condition as third? This is in my truck with a 4L60E (fresh from Monster Trans). It is a long bed and spinning the 6ft long drive shaft to 150MPH is nerve racking, on three occasions it proved detrimental to the tranny, tail shaft, pinion yoke and drive shaft.
This truck does not like going high speeds, its the third truck that I have lowered (long bed) with the other two not having these issues. This one however has broken drive train parts like crazy. Tried changing the angle but not sure it fixed the problem or not. Thought about getting something in the rear to keep it from twisting forward, like old school ladder bars or something similar to it.
I Added 4 degrees of shim under the leaf springs to get the pinion angle closer to recommended angle but at 120 in Mexico the trans took a dump along with severing the tail cone in half, broke the pinion yoke on the rear end, beat the **** out of the gas tank and bent the drive shaft, which might have occurred when it separated from the rear end and bounced off the highway at a high rate of speed! Luckily their is a cross brace that kept it under the truck and not impaling itself to the truck!!
I was having some tranny issues before it let loose so I am not sure if it was an angle issue, a tranny issue or some other vibration issue. So putting it on a dyno has me a bit nervous!! Even now at 100 any vibration immediately makes my ******* clinch up tighter than a snare drum!
What does (data log) mean?
Chad
1:1 in third, could you command the trans to go 1:1 in 2nd gear similar to making the converter lockup? Therefore mimicking the same condition as third? This is in my truck with a 4L60E (fresh from Monster Trans). It is a long bed and spinning the 6ft long drive shaft to 150MPH is nerve racking, on three occasions it proved detrimental to the tranny, tail shaft, pinion yoke and drive shaft.
This truck does not like going high speeds, its the third truck that I have lowered (long bed) with the other two not having these issues. This one however has broken drive train parts like crazy. Tried changing the angle but not sure it fixed the problem or not. Thought about getting something in the rear to keep it from twisting forward, like old school ladder bars or something similar to it.
I Added 4 degrees of shim under the leaf springs to get the pinion angle closer to recommended angle but at 120 in Mexico the trans took a dump along with severing the tail cone in half, broke the pinion yoke on the rear end, beat the **** out of the gas tank and bent the drive shaft, which might have occurred when it separated from the rear end and bounced off the highway at a high rate of speed! Luckily their is a cross brace that kept it under the truck and not impaling itself to the truck!!
I was having some tranny issues before it let loose so I am not sure if it was an angle issue, a tranny issue or some other vibration issue. So putting it on a dyno has me a bit nervous!! Even now at 100 any vibration immediately makes my ******* clinch up tighter than a snare drum!
What does (data log) mean?
Chad
Last edited by ss4chad; Feb 23, 2018 at 09:05 AM.
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Unless you have a triple disc converter we dont recommend locking it WOT. You want to use whatever gear is 1:1 and a load bearing dyno to give you the best data possible. You can dyno in any gear but 1st or 2nd usable revs so fast you dont get any usable data. We try to do atleast 8 second pull but have done 15+ second long pulls before.
If the vehicle doesnt pass our dyno checklist we dont dyno it. On stock or bolt on trucks we do not run them much over 100mph on the dyno due to driveshaft failures.
If the vehicle doesnt pass our dyno checklist we dont dyno it. On stock or bolt on trucks we do not run them much over 100mph on the dyno due to driveshaft failures.
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I have a 2600 Circle D in the truck, bought it to have a little fun on the streets and for pulling a car hauler.
When you stop at 100 do you or would you get the same ***** out tune as you would if you went ***** out?
I mean, hypothetically speaking lets say you make 360 HP at 100, would that be the same as 400 at 150? Just pulling numbers out of thin air. But would everything be the same as far doing the tuning procedure? Would you make different adjustments (AFR, Timing, Spark, Fuel adding or subtracting, etc) to go 150 than you would at 100?
I mean other than bragging rights to your buddies to say I put down 400+ RWHP, does the procedure or the results differ?
Chad
I have a 2600 Circle D in the truck, bought it to have a little fun on the streets and for pulling a car hauler.
When you stop at 100 do you or would you get the same ***** out tune as you would if you went ***** out?
I mean, hypothetically speaking lets say you make 360 HP at 100, would that be the same as 400 at 150? Just pulling numbers out of thin air. But would everything be the same as far doing the tuning procedure? Would you make different adjustments (AFR, Timing, Spark, Fuel adding or subtracting, etc) to go 150 than you would at 100?
I mean other than bragging rights to your buddies to say I put down 400+ RWHP, does the procedure or the results differ?
Chad
Last edited by ss4chad; Feb 23, 2018 at 02:50 PM.
We will dyno it in a lower gear to get the rpm higher and lower the mph. Another thing we do if we need to go past 100mph is lower the load some. It depends on what the truck is being used for, 99% of people with stock trucks arent going 120mph so we basically blend the tune if we didnt get the rpm we wanted. If they just want a dyno number we cut the load off on a truck to decrease the chance of driveshaft issues.
I'm in the same boat. I've got the software, been learning stuff here and there, and learned some things the hard way but it's paid for itself already. I'll get a dynotune when I get into very heavy mods and new internals. Good luck and share with me any info you get lol.