Help with an Ethics Question: Wills and Estate after death.
#22
All the people saying equal aren't in the same situation as having free money so take it with a grain of salt. Nobody can tell you what to do or give acceptable advice because we aren't that person in the situation at ALL. Only one person knows the whole story and what it took and that person alone should make the decision.
If the Dad wanted it equal it would of been made that way.
If the Dad wanted it equal it would of been made that way.
#23
First of all, I am so sorry for your loss. Nothing will ever eliminate the pain you are feeling, but with time, the pain does ease and the good times will remain. You will miss him, though.
Having been executor of 3 estates (my Dad in 2000, my brother in 2005 and my step Dad in 2006) you, my friend, are delving into the ugly part of a loved one passing. And what makes it worse, is your dad has left a mess for you to clean up.
Without a will, legally, the courts would assign equal shares amongst all of you. The person acting as executor is allowed reimbursement of time and expenses, but you have to produce documentation.
Your situation is compounded because siblings are scattered amongst multiple states, each having their own set of probate laws.
The advice given earlier about hiring a probate/estate lawyer was sound. and in this case would be a well spent 2 or 3 thousand dollars.
If your description of your siblings is accurate, if you don't make a pre-emptive strike here, the whole estate could be used up in court battles.
So, my advice to you would be to contact a good estate lawyer (I have an excellent and reasonably priced lawyer if you'd like her name), draw up the necessary paperwork, do an equitable split outside the court system and get on with your life.
(edit: I see you are in Grand Prairie ... is that Dallas or Tarrant county?)
Trying to pass monetary judgement on the siblings will cost all of you, both fiscally and emotionally, in the long run. Grieve the passing of your Dad and don't let the stress of the estate over-whelm you. I'm speaking from experience.
Having been executor of 3 estates (my Dad in 2000, my brother in 2005 and my step Dad in 2006) you, my friend, are delving into the ugly part of a loved one passing. And what makes it worse, is your dad has left a mess for you to clean up.
Without a will, legally, the courts would assign equal shares amongst all of you. The person acting as executor is allowed reimbursement of time and expenses, but you have to produce documentation.
Your situation is compounded because siblings are scattered amongst multiple states, each having their own set of probate laws.
The advice given earlier about hiring a probate/estate lawyer was sound. and in this case would be a well spent 2 or 3 thousand dollars.
If your description of your siblings is accurate, if you don't make a pre-emptive strike here, the whole estate could be used up in court battles.
So, my advice to you would be to contact a good estate lawyer (I have an excellent and reasonably priced lawyer if you'd like her name), draw up the necessary paperwork, do an equitable split outside the court system and get on with your life.
(edit: I see you are in Grand Prairie ... is that Dallas or Tarrant county?)
Trying to pass monetary judgement on the siblings will cost all of you, both fiscally and emotionally, in the long run. Grieve the passing of your Dad and don't let the stress of the estate over-whelm you. I'm speaking from experience.
#24
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Sounds like a lawyer will be required with this one. You are obligated to do as your father wishes, and that should be the end of the story. Now, you think you are entitled, but obviously he did not feel that way.
Just split it evenly (minus the 10% executer fee), and move on with it. YOU will know better that YOU Took the most care of him.
What's the real issue here? Do you WANT the extra money for taking care of YOUR dad, or is it the fact that you don't want your other two siblings getting any extra?
I think of it this way, and I hope I don't offend anybody here. Nobody should be "compensated" for taking care of their elderly parent like this. Were THEY compensated when they were feeding you every two hours and change your diapers when you were like 3 months old? Probably not.......i think of that along the same lines. You do those things because you LOVE them, not necessarily because your looking for a big payout at the end of it.
My parents will probably leave their estate to the dogs or something, becuase me being an only child I'm sure that they wouldn't leave anything to me oh well!
Just split it evenly (minus the 10% executer fee), and move on with it. YOU will know better that YOU Took the most care of him.
What's the real issue here? Do you WANT the extra money for taking care of YOUR dad, or is it the fact that you don't want your other two siblings getting any extra?
I think of it this way, and I hope I don't offend anybody here. Nobody should be "compensated" for taking care of their elderly parent like this. Were THEY compensated when they were feeding you every two hours and change your diapers when you were like 3 months old? Probably not.......i think of that along the same lines. You do those things because you LOVE them, not necessarily because your looking for a big payout at the end of it.
My parents will probably leave their estate to the dogs or something, becuase me being an only child I'm sure that they wouldn't leave anything to me oh well!
#26
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1badchicken
Believe me the deeds will be rewarded at the Gate.
Salvation through grace and faith, not by works, isnt that what your God preaches? I think the money should be split in a semi biased way. I have seen this EXACT thing happen when my step dad's (dad) father died. Three worthless sisters and him that was always around helping his father. There was a rental house left behind that needed to be remodeled, he spent nearly six months of weekends tearing that thing down to the studs and redoing. As soon as it was done, out of the woodwork come the three bitches again. 50/25/25. **** them and their worthless ways. If your dad wanted everything to be truely split equally, he could have worded it that way. He trusted your judgement, now you need to trust yourself. You and your wife figure this out. Not a bunch of us dumbasses on a message board.
Originally Posted by 1badchicken
Believe me the deeds will be rewarded at the Gate.
Originally Posted by skipperbisket
This man speaks the truth...
#28
Originally Posted by 1badchicken
yeah I agree but that was not his wish.
33/33/33%
Believe me the deeds will be rewarded at the Gate.
Always remember money is the root of all evil!!!!!!!!!!!
33/33/33%
Believe me the deeds will be rewarded at the Gate.
Always remember money is the root of all evil!!!!!!!!!!!
There are more references to money in the Bible than hope, prayer, and faith combined! It was a big issue and an important part of everyone's life back then and still is. Evil, no...root of some evil, yes!
I'm off my soapbox now, but anyone spending $$ with me today on parts can get some more of this discussion...FREE!
Good luck man, it's definitely not an easy call!
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#29
Originally Posted by red90cobra
also who payed for the funeral etc?
#30
Originally Posted by Forteen3GT
Lets say your father dies..... leaves behind a few hundred grand...
It all starts:
You have 3 siblings...... 2 of them are in California living a liberal life of drugs and alchohol and bad decisions. For many years with no concern about the welfare of thier father. The other is in Texas taking care of the fella.... Cleaning his house, taking him to the hospital, staying with him while in the hospital, taking out the trash, cooking for him almost every single weekend at the son or daughter's home, being a good son or daughter and doing what is right. For years and years and years and years.
He then dies at 84 yrs old and leaves everything up to you as the executor with wishes to distribute the money evenly. Not considering the fact that one of the siblings has a husband who is a derilect (sp?) and alchoholic, the other is completely nuts and selfish. (when she hears that her daddy died she hauls tail to Texas to get his Van and search his house so she dont miss on the estate)
What would you do if you where the "Good Son or Daughter"??
No "formal" will........ IMO vs 33/33/33% it should be 38/31/31% (each of the losers should compensate the good one for efforts and taking all the slack)
It all starts:
You have 3 siblings...... 2 of them are in California living a liberal life of drugs and alchohol and bad decisions. For many years with no concern about the welfare of thier father. The other is in Texas taking care of the fella.... Cleaning his house, taking him to the hospital, staying with him while in the hospital, taking out the trash, cooking for him almost every single weekend at the son or daughter's home, being a good son or daughter and doing what is right. For years and years and years and years.
He then dies at 84 yrs old and leaves everything up to you as the executor with wishes to distribute the money evenly. Not considering the fact that one of the siblings has a husband who is a derilect (sp?) and alchoholic, the other is completely nuts and selfish. (when she hears that her daddy died she hauls tail to Texas to get his Van and search his house so she dont miss on the estate)
What would you do if you where the "Good Son or Daughter"??
No "formal" will........ IMO vs 33/33/33% it should be 38/31/31% (each of the losers should compensate the good one for efforts and taking all the slack)
It gets divided evenly, PERIOD!
The other two idiots will **** it away in less than a few years anyways.
FIRST: Take the money, pay any outstanding debts related to his illness/death, medical, funeral expences, so that the "good one" is not left picking up the bill for that stuff, which is the typical and appropriate protocol.
Then it gets divided 3 ways, evenly, PERIOD!
It was his money, his wishes, his will, and in absence of a will, it would be what a court would decide, 1/3 each!
I just went through setting up a will and my father is an attorney, so we have had this discussion many times and my brother in law's family, and others in the family have had this discussion.
We are all entitled to our opinion and this is mine.
I don't like it when people feel entitled to someone else's money,
it was dad's money, we all need to just go out and make our own fortunes.
If you were to say you "earned" the money by taking care of him, it is as if you were not doing it because it was the right thing to do, but because of the money, which I am sure is not true.
So the others are bums, and really don't deserve an inheritance,
oh well, they are idiots, life is not fair, it goes both ways, not every gets what they deserve, on the both the good and bad sides of the coin.
The issue is probably not the money,
The issue is probably that the "good" child resents the idiots for their attitude, treatment of dad, etc. as he or she should! The good kid should tell the idiots how he feels and discuss their being dumbasses, independent of the money issue, although that is something most people will not be able to do.
#31
I got an email from an old woman yesterday and she was in the same situation as you are in. She didn't want to leave it to her kids because they were going to do "sinful" things with the money. Instead she wanted to give me her entire multimillion estate and in return I pay her lawyer $5,000 upfront to take care of the paperwork and such. Seems like good route to go and I can't wait to get that check from her.
#32
Estimate how many hours you spent caring for your father, find out what the average nurse makes, and then come up with a fee that represents the hours you spent caring for your dad. Take that out of the estate plus the 10% executers fee, then divide the remainder 33/33/33. That sounds fair to me.
#33
My father is extremely wealthy,
as in on top 2% of americans and at one point I felt entitled to an inheritance, when I was younger, but as I have matured, I have changed my opinion to the idea
that I will make my own fortunes and therefore make any inheritance a moot issue, or non issue, I am not expecting or depending on any inheritance and I hope to make enough money and find happiness in a way that makes any inheritance a non issue that I need not concern myself with. I would be happy to see my father's money go to charity, and I will be happy to see mine go to charity when my wife and I pass.
I have met several extremely wealthy individuals ( like private plane wealthy ) who have said their kids will get all the education they could ever want, but outside of that their money goes to charity when they die. They have the attitude that they made their fortunes, and their kids can do the same. I like and subscribe to that concept.
Once again dad's wishes are independent of anyone elses, his money, his wishes, his choices!
I know this is not specifc to the case at hand, just related comments!
We don't want our kids to turnout like all those other messed up rich kids.
as in on top 2% of americans and at one point I felt entitled to an inheritance, when I was younger, but as I have matured, I have changed my opinion to the idea
that I will make my own fortunes and therefore make any inheritance a moot issue, or non issue, I am not expecting or depending on any inheritance and I hope to make enough money and find happiness in a way that makes any inheritance a non issue that I need not concern myself with. I would be happy to see my father's money go to charity, and I will be happy to see mine go to charity when my wife and I pass.
I have met several extremely wealthy individuals ( like private plane wealthy ) who have said their kids will get all the education they could ever want, but outside of that their money goes to charity when they die. They have the attitude that they made their fortunes, and their kids can do the same. I like and subscribe to that concept.
Once again dad's wishes are independent of anyone elses, his money, his wishes, his choices!
I know this is not specifc to the case at hand, just related comments!
We don't want our kids to turnout like all those other messed up rich kids.
#35
My gosh sounds waaay too familiar bro. I'm the youngest of three. My parents passed away quite unexpectantly and being we are all from the same parents and they raised us to be close they never got around to securing a will (they were not all that old neither). Well when their time came I was away in college and after attending their services went back. (This is in Northern California) My parents were financially successful but not rich and left a sizeable estate behind, definately enough for all three of us to be well off. I never really pressed the issue about the estate partially b/c I was in Tn going to school. When I did raise the issue ($ got tight b/c I was footing college and living on my own now) bro and sis told me there was no will (which I knew) and our parents were in bancruptcy, and behind on taxes and everything is being taken including their accounts. To skip alot of b.s I knew that was total s**t and figured I'd just leave it alone. My older siblings never been into drinking,drugs or any trouble (except greed). A year later I return for a visit and My sister and her husband just purchased a 975K house in Willow Glen (very prestigeous neighborhood) and my brother pulled up in a new (at the time) 02 E430 Benz. I ask w.t.f??? They tell me they all sold their stocks and had a huge payout. I studied economics and light weight questioned it knowing it was b.s. I hired an attorney to look into everything and found the whole truth down to the the insurance money for all THREE of us and how they got it from under me w/my signature. I kept it to myself and moved down here to Tx in o5. While attending my brothers wedding in july of 06 we all got drunk which obviously led to disaster b/c after hearing my sister ramble on about how utterly miserable she is (in her million dollar house) that they are now struggling to keep I couldn't resist the temptation and let the cat out of the bag telling them both I know everything and knew for a few years. After being accused of not being around (b/c I was going to college for 4 years 2 at the time) they figured in their own warped greedy mind i wasn't entitled to a red cent. needless to say i ended up coming back to Tx and swore I'd never speak to them again but after two or three weeks the apology came from them both and we buried the hatchet. I look now at myself and them (I'm no better than anybody) but I'm the one with a nice new house, couple of nice rides, and I'm truly happy and all by myself w/o anyones help, while they are miserable struggling and nearly broke. I love em to death but point being look at how life and kharma handles stuff. Out of respect for my beloved parents i did not persue legal action or fight with my family, that was what they instilled in us not to do and to be close. it's a bitter pill to swallow but depending on your situation and value's do what you you think is right but take it for me I wouldn't have handled it any different if I could do it again. I'd simply walk away and get my own although this is not a fair or financially logical answer. Sorry to ramble on man but just letting you know been there done that and to keep your head up. Good luck
#36
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Originally Posted by THE BLACK WIDOW
If there is nothing in writing stating yourself as the "executor" of the estate then things will have to be settled during probate.
J
J
there is... this Good individual is the executor... in writing.
#38
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Originally Posted by Matt @ SDPC
And to clear up your quote, the Good Book actually says that "money is the root of all kinds of evil." It doesn't say anything about ALL evil
There are more references to money in the Bible than hope, prayer, and faith combined! It was a big issue and an important part of everyone's life back then and still is. Evil, no...root of some evil, yes!
I'm off my soapbox now, but anyone spending $$ with me today on parts can get some more of this discussion...FREE!
Good luck man, it's definitely not an easy call!
There are more references to money in the Bible than hope, prayer, and faith combined! It was a big issue and an important part of everyone's life back then and still is. Evil, no...root of some evil, yes!
I'm off my soapbox now, but anyone spending $$ with me today on parts can get some more of this discussion...FREE!
Good luck man, it's definitely not an easy call!
only if you have lifters avail. for me!!!
this is not me.... here fellas... just a close family member.
#40
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Crazy my husband and I just went through this and we were thankful to get anything, because my father-in-law did not leave much. He left no will (or we think the odd wife burned it) so it was divided between her and his 3 sons, 1 of which is in the Federal Pen. and they agreed to not have a relationship 25 years ago. Get that!! So even though no one knew this guy and the dad was not on his birth certificate, he still got his 25%!! And the wife only came back from leaving him when she heard he was sick with Cancer, then also got $75,000 of insurance money since he never designated a beneficiary at his job. This was all jacked up and I could have taken to court, but not worth waiting on the money. The other siblings would have fought for it too. I know it's not right, but it should be distributed evenly or they will bring you even more conflict. It's just up to your family member how much they want to deal with. Remember, this is money they did not have!!