It's great that the church helped you out when you were younger. But what I feel is that it is a business. Obviously a business has services or products to offer, much like a church does. They helped your family in the time of need. But then again, if that money wasn't there, would they of helped? I would have to say no.

Alot of people also mention how God has a message. Well, I never really needed someone to tell me lying, stealing, killing was wrong - that was something I just felt was wrong to begin with.

Anyone that knows me personally also knows I do not judge anyone. I'm not going to hate someone or tell them they are going to hell just because I don't see eye to eye with them. I'm not bashing here, just asking questions and making statements. If that is wrong to do... well then obviously organized religion isn't doing its job.

 

Humans haven't been able to "discuss" this for thousands of years, you think they will begin to now?

Doesn't it say something in the bible about not eating shellfish right near where it talks about homosexuality? I love the hypocrisy of some of these "Christians". It's just plain ole amusing at this point.


I hope you burn in hell....................

 

Once upon a time, not all men could make that distinction, as unfortunate as that may be. "Don't steal my chickens" has a lot more meaning to people when you tack on "or your soul will burn in the depths of a blazing inferno for all eternity".

 

Why are those things wrong? Who told you they were wrong? Obviously someone(God) instilled you with a conscience to know these things arent right. And dont say society wouldnt function properly if general morality wasnt practiced cause you can lie, steal, cheat, and kill in secret and as long as there isnt a Holy and just God then there would be no consequences. And ofcourse you dont need someone to tell you these things are wrong but wouldnt you like for someone to tell you why these things are wrong? You have the same cookie-cutter arguments as everyone else "churches are bad" "they just want youre money" and they dont work unless youre arguing with morons. The fact is people are greedy and selfish by nature, many of these churches are only concerned with money and that is wrong. Anyone can claim they are a Christian in order to solicit money and services to benefit themselves but I fear for what God will do to them cus he doesnt like to be mocked. The majority of people at any given time in any church are not true Christians, I agree that most people are in church to benefit their own image or their wallet. Your arguments dont add up as they are only a generalization of your own views. That would be like me saying everyone who races a honda is ignorant, where as most are, there are those few who know their stuff, have a truly fast car, and truly enjoy motorsports that would take serious offense to that generalization. I am one of those few and I dont go to church for my image and my tithe money goes towards keeping my churches doors open, supporting missionaries, and of course paying the employees adequate wages. My preacher doesnt have loads of money nor does my church or any of its employees because they give not take. You sound like youve had a bad experience with church as evidenced by your name and your anti-religious attitude, care to enlighten us?

 

Ok, go back and read my quote about Trans Ams looking better than Camaros. It is an opinion.

Yes I am basing my personal opinions off personal experiences. Just like that Carlin clip.... I don't believe something I can't see. Sorry if that bothers some people. Thats just the way I feel.

Just like you feel God is the one that tells us what to do and how to live. Back it up with hard facts and I will consider your opinion. But until I see facts, its just that, opinion.

As for God instilling me with the thought that those things I mentioned are wrong..... well I can't really agree with that. See I'm native american. And I recall native americans being killed for not converting to Christianity. See some hypocrisy coming thru here? So God told me, when i was a single cel, that killing is wrong, yet my ancestors were killed because they wouldnt worship him. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. What was going on in his head when he was "instilling" that upon me. "Hey dude, even though I killed a lot of your family cause they didn't worship me..... you shouldn't kill people yourself. Only I am allowed to do that."

What I don't understand though is religious people just stating... well God said this. Well apparently I didn't get that email, text message, memo, phone call, letter, or whatever means of communication god uses these days. Cause so far the sky hasn't opened up and a big voice come down and told me what to do. I do know in recent years God has started an advertising campaign on billboards next to major interstates. But that money he paid for that billboard came from somewhere right? Or did Clear Channel just decide to give him some free advertisement?

Is there a chance you could tell me how my response was the typical cookie cutter response? Cause I stated what I saw happening in a church, thats fact, I'm not making that up. I could tell a million other stories that would hurt every god fearing person on this board. And it has to do with people running these churches you go to and give your money to. The reason why I say churches here (plural) is most these people move from church to church. Never did I state every church is that way. Just the one I worked in along with the people that worked there that had come and gone. Sad part is..... its a very respectable church. Did I say every church was that way? No, and if i implied that I truely apologize.

You say my arguments don't add up because they are just my own views. WTF was your entire post about. Your OWN views. Pot meet kettle.

BTW the WS6 hood looks way better than the SS hood. Damn those opinions getting in the way again.

 

I`m native American also and my view is very differant than yours. I don`t hold anything against the white man for taking over our lands, killing our people, etc. I`m trully sorry God hasn`t spoken to you in person. Maybe he is doing it threw us!! And your not seeing it. Sorry you have so much balled up in you about church and all. I will pray for you! Good Luck!

It`s funny someone logs in under a new name and starts posting in here about all this!

 

So Beard, Shackleford, etc. Do you and your girlfriends or wives ever have sex just for the pleasure? As stated above, it says in the bible sex is for procreation.

I guess since you "pray for forgiveness" and aren't a ******, it's ok to commit a "sin" hear and there, right?

The problem I have here is you guys seem to think you have the right to judge people because you're religios folks. That's pretty sad, because if you "practiced what you preached" you'd know only God can judge us.

 

 

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

-and-

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

 

I used to go to church all the time. I quit going because it's the only place I'd go where all the hypocrites went. It's basically a fashion show and all about who knows who. Not that I stopped believing, but I have better things to do than sit there and be judged every week by the self-righteous bible-thumpers. If I'm going to be scared into giving up my money every week, I'd almost rather be robbed at gunpoint..atleast there wouldn't be any misrepresentations that way..

 

I didn't read all of this garbage, but I have my $.02 to add just from what I have read. First off: When did it become okay to bash Christians? If this were a Muslim based argument, then would everyone back off with their hands up? My father was just telling me that it will soon become a hate crime to preach from Corinthians (the part in the Bible where it says that it is a sin for a man to lay with another man). So now the gov. (and apparently some of you here too) believe that my father has some kind of hate in him that would lead him to preach crime. Christian teaching says to love the sinner and hate the sin. The Bible doesn't change - People do. This is an obvious violation of the church's rights. I am a Christian, Caucasian, heterosexual, male; If I'm supposed to be a part of the majority, then why do I feel like there should be a minority group for people like me to protect my rights?

 

Im not bashing Christians, Im just saying that they need to follow their own teachings.

As for this legislation... last I checked there was this thing called separation of church and state. The rules of the Church should NOT dictate the laws of the land. There is this thing called the Bill of Rights and it states that "All men are created equal" not "All men are created equal.... as long as the Bible says so."

Its good that you practice religion. On the other hand, God gave us free will... the freedom to choose Him or reject Him. Why cant Christians?

 

Can't rest it, flawed logic. Did you ever actually see love? Or the wind?

 

Still waiting on an answer for this?

 

Jesus set the standard in which a Christian strives to live by, and he was sinless. Perfection is a pretty high standard to live by regardless of spiritual base. As a Christian, I believe I should strive for perfection knowing I'll fall short. Using that logic: Every Christian on the globe is a hypocrite. Some just try harder than others not to be hypocritical.

Right, and vice versa. Why is the government trying to govern a non-taxed non-profit religious organization if the two are separated? Separation of church and state is a two-way street.
Example:I smoke cigarettes. I don't expect that a church would hire me for any position that my (sinful) habit could become a reflection of the church's teachings. They teach against smoking, and I smoke openly. I'm still welcomed at the doors, but I'll never gain employment there. Call me a hypocrite if you'd like, but God will lay it on my heart to be done with my bad habit when the time is right. My question here is: Is anyone concerned that a smoker can't get certain jobs? ...or have we already decided that smoking is wrong for everyone and no one should smoke anyway - Christian or otherwise?

What was the question again? It reads as if you're asking "Why can't Christians reject God?" but I'm sure that's not how it was meant.

 

Have to put my .02 in on this. I will be the first to admit I am not a huge fan of organized religion, as I believe man has too much influence. Under organized religion Christians have killed Christians because they interpreted the Bible differently (reformation). We have also had Popes lead armies into battle during the crusades.

I however am a man of faith, and I know God exists, and plays a large part in my life. I thank him everyday for my blessings, and know things have happened because of his doing, and do my best to live by his standards. I am sad for those who have not felt his presence, but maybe someday.

As far as letting those with alternative lifestyles just do what they will because it "doesn't effect us", this is a flawed arguement, because it does effect us, and I have the perfect example.

During my first semester of college I had a gay roomate. He was forthcoming from day one letting me know, and we agreed that neither of us would try and push our lifestyle on the other, and that there wouldn't be evidence of our lifestyles present (ie he wouldn't bring guys back to our room without giving me notice so I could leave, and the same for me with girls). I was fine with that, I wasn't judgemental and everything was fine for a while. Then he started trying to tell me about his sexual experiences, I tollerated and life went on. Next was scantily clad guys as his screen saver, I tollerated more, and life went on. The straw that broke the camels back was when he started putting up gay **** as his screen saver. Unfortunately I had to walk by his computer to get to my side, so it wasn't like I could avoid it. I had to confront him on, and everytime I saw it I would politely shut his laptop. Eventually he took it off, but the point is you can only give so much before it starts effecting you. If people don't want gays working in their church, they are entitled to say so, and prevent it from happening, especially when the job involves working with children, who are highly impressionable.

 

Ok. To hit on a few things for a few different people, the Bible is not left up to man/an organization to determine or interpret or whatever. As I've said earlier, the message and truth of the Bible is very clear and simple. Man is a sinner; all of us has sinned. The sin separates us from God. The atonement for sin in the Law required the shedding of blood. Jesus Christ, God, came to be the one-time perfect sacrifice for all man so we can again have fellowship and a relationship with God. You don't have to be anyone special or be anywhere special. You can talk to God right now, and He will absolutely hear you. Whether or not you hear His response is up to you.

Ross, I already corrected another guy's claim that sex is just procreation. The Song of Solomon expresses the beauty of sex in marriage. God knows how powerful it is. That's why He made it for marriage and not just for procreation. What better way for a husband and wife to express their love for each other and so forth than through sex? Also, I am not judging anyone. God has already judged everyone. As I've said before, I'm simply stating what the Bible says. Homosexuality is a sin just like any other. I have asked for forgiveness of my sins and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Does that give me a license to sin? Absolutely not! In fact, in the NT I believe it says, "God forbid!". Do I sin? Yes. Do I have my struggles? Of course. I'm still a human, but God is working in me and through me.

The "Judge not lest you be judged" scripture is referring to someone trying to judge another person's heart. No one can do that, only God can. But it is possible to judge the fruit of someone's life. It's a fine line but is necessary. The Bible tells Christians to call sin sin. Obviously, a lot of people are not going to want to hear what sin is. They want to keep right on doing it and doing their own thing.

Separation of church and state has bee so misinterpreted that it's not even funny. This country was founded by Christians, its laws on Christian principles. Separation of church and state is not in the Constitution. It refers to the state (federal government) not having a state church. Christian principles can guide its leaders and lawmakers all day long. There is nothing wrong with that. We do have free will. That's why there is individual responsibility. My job is to proclaim the truth, not to make someone else accept it.

I'm sure a lot of people will agree that someone churches and pastors are shady and crooked. I will be the first to agree with you. To truly know if something is of God, check the Bible. If it is not in the Bible or is contrary to the Bible, then it is not of God. I don't care who or what is behind it.

 

God gave humans free choice... yet Christians want to take that away. Christians position on this "Hate Bill" is a perfect example. God gave us free choice... correct? He allowed us to choose Him or reject Him... right? Now, in your beliefs Homosexuals are rejecting God. Homosexuals will reap the wrath when they die... WHEN THEY DIE. We are not here to judge another human being... thats not our job. Our job is to spread the Word of God. Whoever listens, listens. Whoever CHOOSES not to listen... thats fine as well. God will handle that. To get your panties all in a wad over this is ridiculous. Your Church's laws shall not govern me if I should CHOOSE to reject them. Once again, the Bill of Rights say that ALL men were created equal... that is what the Government is trying to make happen. They are not saying that what they are doing is right, just protecting their freedoms.

 

I don't follow. Christians are trying to stop homosexuality? Everyone knows that's not going to happen. My position is to separate that lifestyle from myself and my future children. Why? Because it's biblically wrong, and that's what I've decided for my household. Is that not my right to do so?

I never said that, and to tell you what I believe is that it isn't up to me to judge whether or not this person or that one has a personal relationship with Christ.

I didn't mean to sound rude, just passionate.

I'm okay with that too. I just hope that you aren't looking for a job at my church unless you're willing to comply with the personal prerequisites that go with. We are talking about people that will influence your child's life on a weekly (if not daily) basis.

Who's freedoms? Mine as a Christian with moral conviction and my right to raise my children in an atmosphere that says there is such things as right and wrong?

P.S. No one cares about the tobacco users that can't get certain jobs at the church house? Is one sin different than the other?

 

A. You never had sex before marriage? Key word is MARRIAGE there, buddy.

B. God is working in you and through you...This is your excuse for judging others?