sry if i was not clear i had it in my car. LOL funny you say that though they did not have any signs up, but I know the rules and follow them.

thomas

 

you can only meet a force with equal force. the only exception is your 'castle'. although they cleaned up the laws quite a bit, cars are still pretty gray. if someone forces their way into your car, then i'd say yes. but if they are just making verbal threats, no.

as was already stated, you need to be especially careful when the scenario involved alcohol. you absolutley cannot carry in a bar (51% rule), but you can leave it in your car. if you are the DD and have not been drinking, you may legally handle the firearm that you stored in your car. althoguh the law technically says you cannot handle a firearm while 'intoxicated', which implies .08, i'd say you'd be treading on thin ice if you even had one drink and a cop smells it on you because they could argue that your judgement is affected.

 

A CHL holder with the firearm in the car or on person CAN HAVE 0.00 ALCOHOL. You can not have 1 sip. and there is no arguing that. As well as you can not carry in a bar, but that depends like if it serves food etc. that is pretty gray. If it is posted that the store owner does not want you to carry you must leave it in the car then too. I'm not questioning the law, but just did not ever think I would be in a position that I would have to.

Thomas

 

Careful how you say things - what you said in and of itself was awfully ambiguous and open for incorrect interpretation.


Anywhere you are legally permitted to carry under your CHL, or legally permitted to possess a firearm, you are allowed to use said firearm with deadly force.

You also can exceed the current level of violence if it is obvious that failure to do so will result in serious bodily harm to yourself or others.

Where is irrelevant - it's the situation that dictates the laws.

I suggest to everyone in this thread, who cares to know, reading the CHL handbook in it's most recent form(released after September 2007) cover to cover, so you understand the laws. They are rather clear in the use of deadly force - much more clear since the revision in September. If, after reading the manual, you are still confused, then consult a lawyer.

This is one instance where internet advice is dangerous - because your decision in that situation could result in the loss of life, liberty, or both.


FWIW.......
In this situation - if he were to pursue me to the car(note, not IN it - TO it) - I would make it clear that his pursuit was being considered a threatening action, that I request him to back away and disengage, and that I was calling the police.

I'd have the phone in my left hand dialing 911, and my right hand ready to draw my weapon.

You REALLY want the cops to get there before you have to shoot someone. LOTS of paperwork, legal fees, and court appearances unless the cops assess zero fault on scene, which can be rare depending on the jurisdiction and the disposition of the DA, if you aren't at your home or residence.

 

This action would have been his undoing. He still has the option to start the car and leave. Lots of options if you look for them. Just cause you "really want to" and "the guy is asking for it" does not mean that you should drop him. The wife and I have carried for 6 years and have discussed between us, the different situations we may encounter in the home, car, shopping, etc. that may require us to stop someone. When you carry, you have to be carefull in the decisions that you make. Weapons training is not the only preparation for carring and possibly the use of a weapon. It is more mental. I say this because it only takes a moment to draw and fire. The mental preparation should be where the majority of your time is spent in regards to concealed handgun carry.

Mec

 

Very true but sad. I think the OP made the right smart decision because the situation is over and nobody got hurt. But in my eyes which probably isnt right I think him shooting him would have been justified. Heres why the guy had a knife on him and he stated he was going to kill him making threatening remarks. Also here is a big factor he was not drinking and he had a witness that could testify on his behalf of what happened . I totally agree about trying to call 911 immediately but I would rather strike first immediately and suffer those consequences than the alternative. He had his girl with him and in my book that makes me step up to more deadly force. What I mean is if I were by myself and three guys approached me I would have taken an *** beating or worse because its me but if I have my girl or wife it puts things in different perspective and I would be much more likely to use deadly force. Where are some police officers I know there are some on here Voice your opinions.

 

it all depends on how serious you feel the threats were, if he had a knife and was walking towads you saying "i am about to kill the **** out of you" then by all mines, show big boy the toy and if he doesn't stop, theres no one that would prosecute you with credible witnesses

 

FYI:
CHL=Concealed Handgun License
CCW=Concealed Carry Weapon

 

BTW, I dont agree with the pull out to intimidate option. That can get you in trouble. If you have to pull out your CCW, you better use it or else dont pull it out at all. He can say you threatnend him with the gun (if he didnt have a gun or weapon) Same goes for how you have it ready, "one in the barrel" at all times if not might as well leave it at home.

 

Yep I would not pull out mine unless I was going to use it I suggest everyone elsedo the same

 

Should have said You feared for your and the life of your girl and shot.

That was a big guy. Makes me remember when my boys took me to the strip club last year for my b-day.This drunk guy was huge(tall and stocky) and he kept coming to me telling me that he was going to get married. I said congrats but the guy kept coming back trying to harass me. I told him to back off and put my forearm across his chest because he rushed me and then all his boys try to jump on me. Security came and they thru all their asses out when I explained what happened.

But then again you are responsible for every bullet that comes out of your gun.It seems that its a hassel having a chl sometimes cause I think of all the consequences before I pull my pistol.

 

this post is full of bad info.
items in bold:
wrong, not a grey area at all, wrong.

 

you may be ok in crminal court but you stall may get screwed in civil court if you kill someone and you have had a drink.

 

yeah, thats what i'm saying... the law states 'intoxicated'. i'm reading my texas concealed handgun laws book right now (and i have the 2004 edition, which was most current when i got my license). it refers to texas penal code 49.01, which states:
when i took my CHL class, the instructor stated that while the law technically states 0.08, it is in your best interestes to operate under 0.00 as the limit, because its too easy to get into trouble. this is what i mean by the law being 'grey'. what it says and what it means can be interpreted differently by who is reading it and or what law enforcement officer and/or judge you are dealing with.

 

Here is a link to the current CHL handbook. They generally don't change the link when they update the version, I have it saved as a bookmark.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ls-16.pdf

 

Thanks for that link. I cannot believe any law enforcement has not chimed inyet. This is very interesting and I think everyone should know what the OP could have done or what somebody could have done without a concealed carry. I keep my heater in the car I Never carry it on me I wonder if I was the OP and did not have a CHL but I was in my car and the same thing happened what could I have done?
With this new law out (HB1815) I really do not see a need of getting my Concealed carry .

 

I don't carry a "heater". I carry a loaded firearm.

Again, the laws are very clear when deadly force is authorized. If people want to stray outside of these definitions, they alone will have to face the consequences legally(as well as their family). I don't advise that, but then again I'm not a licensed lawyer either.

Carrying a firearm is a responsibility, not something to be taken lightly.

Something else to consider - there can be a big difference between being in a fist fight and fearing for your life.

 

Well, since he had a white jacket on.. shoot that ****** dead on sight.

 

Couple things:

I would never want to try to intimidate someone with a weapon. Some people might like to whip out their fancy stainless gun with lasers, scopes, and glow in the dark bullshit, but the person being shot shouldn't know anything until they feel a bullet hit them. While you might be trying to de-escalate the situation by intimidating them into submission, you will likely just escalate the situation to a point where macho-ism takes over and someone gets hurt and the other goes to jail--especially if one person is drunk.

Secondly, the plan should always be to remove yourself from a potentially harmful situation. Did they follow you out of the club/bar? Was something going on inside the bar? If yes, I would have told my friends that it was time to leave.

Read through the latest CHL book you can get. Also, pick up a couple of self defense tactical books. Check out books by auther Masaad Ayoob. The problem with asking random people what the law states is that you can't rely on someone else to decide when YOU should use lethal force on someone else. Its completely your responsibility.

Ryan

 

If in doubt, pull it out. If you fear for yourself and your friends saftey there is (for me atleast) a warning siren that goes off in the back of your mind. No kidding, like bells banging, your vision gets very accute and time seems to slow down. I have had it happen maybe 3 times in my life. Again not some fist fight, but an actual life threatening situation.