Silverback

More likely it was the fact that you have the open wall and were getting outside light into the space… the stuff is UV reactive and UV light will cause it to harden very fast if you have enough hardener in it. I don’t know good it will be long term if you reduce the hardener to compensate, you just shouldn’t filler in the sunlight.

This and your later steeper angle is a bad idea, you should paint them in the same position as they are on the car so that your pieces all look like part of the same car when they’re assembled, if you turn them all sideways the top surfaces will look different then the top surfaces on the car that you couldn’t hang sideways.

You can get around most goobers and stuff falling out of the sky, but that dirt floor is going to be hell… start spraying and you kick up dust… that is going to be the big problem. Otherwise I’ve actually done an OK job in just a normal garage and even a couple of times in a driveway.

Overspray shouldn’t come into it, you should mask everything else off so it’s a non issue. Usually you spray the lighter stuff first and then darker stuff second, or at least whatever will cover better.

Really, you should put the filler down before everything else and if you find a low spot low enough that you need filler but are not going to work it out you should sand off the primer and fill and then reprime.

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

I think you're right on all accounts, Silverback. Well, except the UV... I have put my mixing bench in the very deep front corner of the shed, so I was deep in the shade when mixing. Which is an issue when painting though - lighting. With the bright "outside" non-wall, it makes it tough to illuminate stuff inside enough to really see it. Saturday morning I had a dual-halogen lamp going (along with the overhead fluorescent), and really, it wasn't sufficient.

Caught myself looking at concrete this morning. Hmm, 20 x 30 x 4" slab, ~8 yards, at ~$80/yard (I'm guessing there)... $640. Add rebar, a couple of tool rentals... think it could be done for about a grand? And, what are the odds that they could fit 8 yards in 1 truck? If I did that, my shed area would go from really lame to really cool...

ponchoguy

iTrader: (2)

I agree with Silverback on all counts except for the putty kick time. Temprature affects the glaze kick time most of all... I need less hardner in the summer when it's 90+ out than in the winter when it's 50 to get the same kick time.
That's in the shade too, I melt quick in the FL summer sun.
I've tried a number of glazes, it's a good thing to check cure times before you buy... Pro's can get away with fast kick time, but I prefer the slower kick time as I'm slow and I've always got something else I can work on while the glaze cures.

On concrete, dunno what TX is seeing, but I got fiber-reinforced concrete, 3000 psi, delivered for about $120 a yard with the fiber, and 0.5% high early strength additive. Poured in Feb so needed the HES additive as it was cold out. I imagine you'd want a retarder in TX now, but the concrete company can tell you what they recommend. Adding water to slow cure lessens the strength, or so I have been told
There's delivery charge, and a minimum 5 yd delivery. The trucks can hold 10 yds each, so if you are close, contract for 10+ delivery, that way you have another truck on call if you need it. My slab for the garage was 26 yds, and we had a 30+ contract in with the concrete company... I used 7.5 yds extra to pour a shed 10x10 slab, section of sidewalk, and 1/2 my driveway was trashed. The garage used a lot as the slab was a monoblock with footers dug 18 inches deep for the last 2 foot around the slab. That big a slab you'll need an assortment of floats and poles, rap the sides with a sledge while it's being poured and you may not need a concrete vibrator. Again, I'm no expert. For a brush finish you'll also need a big broom and poles for it. If you want the smooth finish you'll likey want to rent a power float. Lots of backbreaking work, so get some help, the more the better, preferbly some that's experienced in pouring concrete. You'd also want to put a 6 mil barrier between the dirt and concrete so moisture doesn't wick up from the ground.

ponchoguy

iTrader: (2)

One of the products that I like for filling and block sanding is this: QuikSand® Polyester Primer Surfacer from Mar-Hyde. $33 a gallon from smartshoppersinc.com. I shoot it with a Sharpe gun with a 2.3 mm tip, that stuff needs a huge tip. You can really tune up a wavy/pitted surface pretty quick with that stuff. Not so much a problem with a late model, unless you pick up a fiberglass hood or are dealing with collision damage. Most of my paintwork is with older cars, but I am planning on painting my 93 Formula, and have to touch up the headlight doors on my 01 TA (clear lifted and some rockchips).

I also like the Dura-blocks, and I just picked up the Eastwood flexible board sander with the removable rods to do 1/4 panels and hoods.
Also some good info and questions on this forum: http://www.leopardsystems.com/paintucationforum/

Just thought I'd toss that out there...
Tom

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info, Tom. I appreciate it. Especially the concrete info. Wow, $120/yard, I'd heard it was increasing in price, not sure if it's gone over $100/yard here or not. My 'slab' wouldn't be load bearing other than vehicles, but I suppose it'd need the footings areas anyway. I'll have to kick it around in my head.

I thought about getting some peanut butter to shoot through my gun (for example, Evercoat's FeatherFill). But I decided to just stick with the high build primer. It seemed to spray really well, and I think that any low spots that don't block sand out this time around, will be taken care of on the next pass. I may reduce a little less on the next pass so it builds a little more (I reduced 20%). The low spots were caused by me hitting the SMC with the DA sander (the white spots in my 'before' pics). I know now that on my "real" Fiero hood, not to go so far with the DA. I also may just knock down the paint with the 80 grit next time, and then feather it out with the 180 grit DA discs.

The VFN hoods that I have did turn out pretty well from them, and "look" pretty straight (from what I've inspected; that opinion could change when I wet them down and look at them in the sun). So I don't see a real need right now for me to buy anything other than epoxy primer and a high-build primer.

Those Eastwood blocks with the rods are nice, but price of them scared me down to the DuraBlocks (which were $50/set). $200+ for a set of foam blocks... that's a lot of $$! Of course, I'll have $100+ in materials and ?? hours tied up in this hood that I'm not even going to use. Might look good as a wall ornament tho.

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

Well, jumped out of bed this am and put another coat of primer on the hood.

I really took my time this morning. Just kinda cruised through the steps. I think these coats turned out the best so far, and it was the least stressful experience so far. I also hung it to where it faced the outside area - to use the light from the sun (though the open area faces west, so it's not direct sunlight). Wind was perfectly calm this morning when I woke up, but has started kicking up now. The primer has already flashed, so nothing else should stick to it.

I reduced the primer 20%, so I got a couple small runs, but that's OK, they'll sand out. I also sprayed extra coats at a couple of points (you'll see in the after pic) to cover up some sanding scratches.

I have learned not to cut the coat of primer with 80 grit paper, that's for sure. It really left some deep trenches. After this coat dries (tomorrow), I'll move the hood, put a coat of 3M dry block on it, and block it down with 320 grit. Recoat with dry block, and then I'll step up to 500 wet in preparation for base.

Last time, I moved the hood after about 3 hours, and the paint was still a little soft. This time I'm going to let it sit much longer - either remove it from the hangar tonight or tomorrow morning.

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

Well, got it blocked.

First set of pictures cover:

1. Hood covered with 3M's Dry Guide Coat.
2. Sanding with 180 Grit dry
3. Done with 180 grit
4. Guide coated again after 180 grit
5. Done sanding with 320 grit

I think starting the block with 180 is the way to go. 80 was definitely too rough.

I could have saved myself a ton of time and material had I gone with 180 instead of 80 originally, as well as filling the spots that I made with the DA sander on the hood.

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

Then it was time to finish sand it with 500 wet. The 3M stuff works awesome. I love this stuff. You don't realize how huge sandpaper cuts are until you use it. It gets in all the nooks and crannies. I know the surface of this hood is 99.99% free of anything lower than 500 grit scratches.

The hood looks good. It's ready for paint.

I know you can guide coat with cheap spraypaint, but this 3M stuff is well worth it. I can tell this can will last a long time as well.

Here's a couple partial done shots, and then the final finished shot. Hopefully I can put a coat of Viper Blue on 'er tomorrow.

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

Base is on. 3 coats - of course, I had to figure out how to spray it first. First coat was pretty light. On my last pass on the first coat, I figured out that I really need to spray this stuff right on the edge of running the paint - that seemed to give the best coverage.

I waited ~30 minutes, shot the second coat. Waited another ~30 minutes, shot the third. I'm using the 85 degree reducer, and it's about 80 degrees here right now. Just about right.

Don't get me wrong, there is all kinds of badness in this paint job. TONS of debris and dust, and I can still see the 500 grit sanding scratches (guess that wasn't high enough! but since this is a practice panel, that's exactly what I wanted to know).

The GFG-670 laid down this paint like crazy. It was great. Did a good job.

I did kick the last coat of base (added a little clearcoat activator). This is supposed to help the paint and clearcoat bond together, and make it a little harder.

I'm going to clear it this afternoon. I think the color will look great!

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

It's done.

SPI's Universal Clear went on real smooth. Even if you try to puddle / run it, it seems to want to just flow out. I gotta say, SPI's stuff sure makes it easy for a beginner to do this.

Next time I'll paint in a booth. If it turns out like this hood, it oughta be great. I'll get some pics in the sun after it's dried fully (couple of days, probably)

ROCNDAV

iTrader: (100)

Nice. So is it done at this point, or would you still have to color/wet sand in a week or two?

When painting a car (Changing color) would you paint all pieces (hood, fenders bumpers) assembled, or disassembled?

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

It's got less orange peel than a factory F-body finish, so to me, it'd be done at this point (since it's for the Fiero). On my Z28's, I'd probably wet sand after a week or two, cut and buff, etc.

If it's a non-metallic color (white, black, other solids) you can paint while car's apart, but run risk of scratching during reassembly. If it's metallic, "they say" you should do it all at once, since everything from humidity to the phase of the moon determine how the metallic particles lay down.

The clear coat is still a little soft right now (scratched it lightly, arrgh). That tells me that renting a paint booth is not a real good option - since I'd have to move the car within a few hours of being done. Guess I'm gonna have to build one.

My 94Z I'll probably paint in pieces (black), but my 98Z and Fiero will be painted all at once (but with most panels off the cars).

hondo

iTrader: (2)

1. SPI products are great. period.
2. I use a 24" or 36" level with sticky paper on the side to block my primer.
I only use a 12" block with a guide coat for blocking small areas where i used filler, before i spray my high build.
3. G2 feather fill is a great high build primer, try it, you'll like it. it"s a polyester though, not a 2k.
4. That 3m guide coat is the ****, and it lasts forever!
5. Nice job! body work is fun if you have good products!!

Are you sure the scratches you're seeing are 500 grit scratches from the final sanding? I'd have to guess they are left over from using the 80 grit on the primer.

Basically my process is this, products depend mostly on budget.......
Rough out any dents or metal work, sand factory paint to 180, or bare metal depending....put down 1-2 coats of good epoxy primer(SPI!!). Apply filler to bodywork(right on top of epoxy). Cheese grater first then 80 just to shape, then 180 with a guide coat just on the filler areas, so I know they are nicely feathered and flat. Spot more epoxy over any filler. Then high build, guide coat, then block that with what ever my final grit will be, usually 220 under a solid color or 400 grit for a metallic has always workedfor me.Sometimes I spray some reduced epoxy a a sealer, sometimes not, depends on what I am doing. Base, clear, cut/buff, blah blah..... enjoy. I don't do this for a living, but this works for me.

Tech

iTrader: (1)

I've always been told not to spray base on anything rougher then 1000 grit.

hammrman31

to do a good job on a colour change paint doors component parts off the car. then reassemble,and fit before spraying entire car.

EDawg

you can spray base over 500 with no problems. i spray my clear over 1000 on blend panels. it is always good to use a non-sanding sealer over primer before base. good luck!

oh this is what i do, so if you have any questions fireaway

ryansm1

iTrader: (8)

Great thread

How do you blend paint and keep it from being too noticable?

tsench

iTrader: (15)

that's a nice job keep it up

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

Thanks guys.

Stripping of the old paint has begun on the car.

Got a brief chance to look at it in direct sunlight today. Looking really hard, I can see a little tiger striping of the metallics. That's probably because of how I handled the fanning - I was running the gun pretty close to the hood. I should probably have gone over it on those last passes with a wider fan - though the GFG670 seems to top out at about 8-10" (try to go wider and it starts to blot the ends of the spray and get thin in the middle).

But overall, there is decent metallic distribution, and it's only noticeable in direct sunlight with concentrated effort to see it. I'd be content with it on my car... so much so that I slapped the hood on the Fiero tonight. Wow, aligning those hoods is easy. Remove headlights, hood hinges are "right there"... close hood, align and then tighten nuts, reinstall headlights. Done.

ponchoguy

iTrader: (2)

I gotta agree with Camaroholic on the 3m Guide coat... that stuff is worth every penny. I agree 80 grit is extreme for standard primer... but if you shoot poly filler 80 will level it in a hurry. Great for a car that has either suffered from rust pitting, been sandblasted, or has hail damage.

I use 600 grit for final finish for both solid and metallics...

Sealer in the right color is definetly a good idea before base.

Ryansm1, blending well is very difficult, even for the pros, depending on the color... A solid color base/clear job is easiest, then a solid color single stage is much more difficult. Metallics are really hard to do, and virtually impossible to do well if they are single stage. You have to duplicate the exact conditions of the first spray, and I like how Camaroholic put it, "since everything from humidity to the phase of the moon determine how the metallic particles lay down". Air pressure, nozzle tip size, flow rate, film thickness all determine a match... and that is ASSuming that you have an exact brand/color match of the paint on the car.

On epoxy before filler, it's a tough question... On one hand, body filler sticks so much better to bare metal than to epoxy primer. However, epoxy primer locks out rust.
Camaroholic, looks GREAT, especially for a first attempt... Metallic is much much harder than solid colors and it came out pretty good... Did you buy your supplies on the internet or local?