I posted in a different forum on this page but trying to figure out what my wife's car will be worth in spring time. (Yes I want the spring convertible premium). The car is stored at my brothers airplane hangar now so she is tucked away nice and snug as a bug.

Car is an 02 SOM WS6 automatic with ~42K miles. No cracks in door panels, no dings, dents, bubbles, tears in seat, etc. Car is in excellent condition.

I believe I am the 2nd owner as I have owned it from 2005.

The wife just doesn't drive it enough.

As reference attached are a couple pictures of the car at a local cruise night this year. I think she put all of 100 miles on it in 2015.

Any thoughts on what I should expect come spring?

Forgot to mention. Relatively un-molested stock. Only mod is a Borla catback system.

Thanks

Ron D.

 

Nice car, good luck.

 

12k-14k imo would see a little more if it was a coupe

 

I'll say 16. If it was a 6 speed a bit more.

 

Any nice and clean 42K mile '02 WS6 A4 vert is a $14K-$15K car based on a range of condition. Maybe you could get one cheaper if you're darn lucky.

Now, the SOM premium. That's big imo, even for 42K miles. I'd put it at 15-20%. That's what the coupes have brought. You don't see the verts all that often. I'd love to own one. If you're within 400 miles of NY give me a holler next spring.

I'd value the SOM vert at $16K-$18K. It's not like they grow on trees. While "everyone" would love an M6 coupe, there is plenty of demand for A4 coupes and verts. I'm one of them. I also value the vert at more than a coupe. While "everyone" in the WTB sections wants a WS6 SOM coupe, I don't see all that many looking for verts. Just makes it easier on those of us that like verts.

 

numbers above are very close, is that a tan or a camel interior? if its camel add another 1k

 

I answered your post in the Convertibles section this morning without knowing you posted here too.
I also would like an auto SOM 'vert if I was looking. As I stated in the other thread, if the car is truly excellent with a clear title, $15k shouldn't be too difficult. I personally would pay up to $16,000 maybe, but not any higher, and that's only because it's SOM. On a sub 20,000 miles car I would pay a few grand more but not with 42k miles. A sub 10,000 miles car is $20k easy. That's me anyway and I'm in that segment of the buyer's market where you need the input. I've owned my 'vert since new and it has 47,000 miles on it, just a few more than yours. It has been meticulously cared for yet you can't help but notice the nicks and 'age' issues that occur as the miles, although very low, add up. That's where the mileage comes into play.
Best of luck next Spring!!

 

Thanks everyone. I guess I will list it at $16K in spring and see what happens as long as the wife will let it go.

 

I recall an earlier '02 SOM coupe listed earlier this year in WIW fetched $20K on ebay. I believe it was an automatic with 22K miles. That was a very strong price for not being ultra-low mileage. It really comes down to condition. There are 42K miles cars out there that are in better condition and better maintained than say a 22K mile car.

 

^^^ Definitely! I own one. My 'collector' neighbor does too. Unfortunately you have to talk 'general' when discussing pricing, but we both have said there are exceptions when it comes to mileage. Mileage is important in most situations though. You can't ask too high or no one will respond to the ad. If 69gtoman put a $20k price in an ad for his car I wouldn't even bother calling if I was in the market. Just too high with those miles, even if the car was exceptional. Too hard to negotiate down $4,000 to my max price. Still there is no harm in trying to start out in the higher teens. Someone out there might be desperate for one with more cents than sense. The BJ auctions are a prime example of that.

 

It was a 6cspeed btw.

 

I think I saw you post that this car is in the Chicago area? I don't recognize the location those pictures were taken at, but if you were ever a regular at the major local cruise nights then I may have seen this car at some point.

4th gen convertible demand in this location is generally weak, even in the spring/summer. Most local 4th gen enthusiasts prefer the t-top cars, so I would suggest advertising nationally (such as ebay) if you want the highest possible sale price and don't mind the added hassle of long range deals.

The other market downsides to this car are the trans type (personally I would ONLY consider an A4 car like yours, but the vast majority of shoppers seem to want the M6) and the interior/top color (most people want Ebony/black.) The SOM exterior definitely adds a premium in the current market, but not as much as if those other options were of the more popular content. Overall, being an A4 and convertible will definitely reduce the number of potentially interested parties, so you may have to wait longer for a premium sale price or, if you want it sold more quickly, price it below the highest tier examples for this mileage.

Mileage is the next factor. As mentioned by NC01TA and Firebrian above, 42k miles doesn't always mean the same thing. At that mileage, condition can range from fair to excellent, with most being in the "good" category (assuming no winter exposure) at this age, and the value will range accordingly. There simply aren't enough pictures (detailed pictures) to give an honest idea of true condition, so it's hard to assign a likely value. Excellent, good and fair don't all mean the same thing to everyone, so true condition can be somewhat of a subjective matter. I would estimate somewhere between $13-16k for the right buyer, or less if you want to also appeal to the crowd who wouldn't normally consider a convertible (and/or auto) but will if the price is right.

 

Hold out high...someone is looking for that exact car. Example, I sold my 2002 triple black vert (in sig) w/28K for 14.5K (not near as desirable as yours IMHO) on Craig's List to a guy from Germany of all places. If you can hold out for the right buyer you will get the premium.

 

I have always said on here it is more about who's looking when and where, put a ultra low mile 96/97WS6 in white in front of me and I'll pay a premium, another color, it would need to be a score

 

When I was looking for a WS6 vert in 2011 this SOM car would have fit the bill exactly, assuming it's really nice for the miles. All you have to do is find another (older) buyer like me who prefers the fun of a vert. I've owned 3 verts (GTX, Roadrunner, Coronet R/T) but not yet a 3rd or 4th gen F body. I'd value any mid-mileage WS6 vert at $2K-$3K more than a Z28. And the SOM at another $2K to $3K on top of that (ragtopz28's input). And then subtract $1.5K for mileage differential. The WS6 SOM still comes out on top by $3.5K-$4.5K. Someone is looking for this exact car....especially someone who doesn't want to pay another $4K higher for a 15K mile garage queen that they'll be afraid to drive and get a stone chip on it.

And if that $20K SOM coupe I mentioned above was a M6, then the A4 is still at $16K-$18K. The vert is worth more than the A4 coupe. On Autotrader.com there are only 4 SOM cars for sale with under 45K miles, with only a single Firebird...a WS6 M6 vert, 34K miles for $21K.... out of Texas. Considering only 47 SOM WS6 verts were built in 2002 (less than 3% of all verts)..... (vs. 647 yellow CETA verts) it's a pretty hard to find car. The 3 most common colors in 2002 account for 1200+ of these verts. I would actually prefer a taupe colored interior rather than the more common black/grey. Anything that makes it more exclusive is a plus to me. White top would be fine too. But, that's just me. People trip over themselves to buy a 1999 or 2002 anniv WS6 vert, and they made thousands of them. They cost more too. Make mine an SOM please! Over time, those 47 built will be the deciding factor...especially considering up to 50% of those anniv cars have been saved in pristine, lower mileage condition. They will always be around and available to buy.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=06333&endYear=2002&listin gType=used&engineCode=8CLDR&listingTypes=used&show caseListingId=399627873&pricesOnly=true&mmt=[PONT[FBIRD[]][]CHEV[CAM[]][]]&modelCode1=CAM&photosOnlyActual=true&sortBy=deriv edpriceASC&makeCode2=PONT&modelCode2=FBIRD&showcas eOwnerId=1360232&startYear=2001&makeCode1=CHEV&eng ineCodes=8CLDR&maxMileage=45000&searchRadius=0&ext ColorsSimple=ORANGE&listingId=404642062&Log=0

 

Rarity doesn't always increase value, and sometimes the value of certain options will wax and wane with trends in popularity. SOM cars have been desirable for quite some time, but paying the premium primarily for hopes of even greater future return is a risky move IMO (though reasons of personal desire may certainly be worthwhile.) At 42k miles, the ship has already sailed in terms of true collector status at its current age; you'd have to not drive it for another 20+ years to perhaps re-enter that territory. As SOM is only a color and not a special package (such as 30th Ann. or CETA), I wouldn't count on it holding a value premium as well as one of the actual special edition cars over the very long term. But none of this really applies to the OP as he's looking for a sale next spring and not in 10-30 years.

The problem with holding out for highest tier pricing are the somewhat polarizing options on this car (convertible, A4.) Yes, to the right buyer these things might make the car worth MORE than a t-top M6 example, but that right buyer will be harder to find than if the car was optioned with the most desirable content for the audience which it generally gathers.

In the end, it will always come down to seller urgency vs. market demand, with the wild card being those few individuals looking for a very specific car, and willing to pay whatever the cost, right at the moment you happen to post the listing. The more universally popular the options, the faster the car will move; the better the price, the faster the car will move - the inverse of either will generally also bring the inverse result.

 

I really don't consider the WS6 anniv cars as "special packages" as there is no extra performance associated with them, just cosmetic paint/plastic/coating/embroidery/badging differences. There are so many saved in top condition that they will never be rare. Their colors are common since they built so many. Can you imagine back in 1970 if 1,000+ owners decided to put away their mint AAR CUDA's for 40-50 years? That's approx 36% of the orig production. That's basically what we have here for WS6 anniv cars. Even the Camaro SS's can be found with SLP upgrades that weren't available on the WS6's (ILE, CME, SS grille, Bilstein suspension, etc). Anniversary cars are certainly exciting and interesting to some extent. My only complaint with them are the high survival rates and the fact you got zero in performance upgrades with them. What would a 1970 "Hemi Cuda" be worth today with a 440 engine and drive train right from the factory...but all the correct Hemi-badging and exterior looks to look like one from 100 feet? Would anyone care? Sort of reminds me of the mid-1970's "Hang 10" Dodge Darts. Unique looks...interesting....and no performance.

I think down the road the cars they built very few of, and few of them were saved, will command the most money. I don't think there will be enough lovers of the anniv cars in 20 years to keep their premiums as high as they are over the much lower production cars costing much less. SOM is part of that deal. It's the best color by far on the WS6/SS's. WS6 SOM verts might just take a much higher position when it's realized there are only a dozen or two surviving for both years that aren't thrashed or long gone. I'm not saying a 100K mile SOM WS6 vert will be highly prized in 20 years....but it could be. Over time, rarity does tend to get appreciated. Through the 1980's the much rarer and wilder Mopars of the 1960's and early 1970's seemed to lag the much more common and "in demand" Mustangs, Camaro's, and Chevelles. In the 1996-2007 period that was turned upside down with many finally figuring out the scarcity of those Mopars.

For my money today, I'd bet on the sleeper cars such as strongly SLP optioned SS's, and the SOM cars. The Z28 and Firebirds coming in unusual and desirable colors in 1998-1999 will be part of that list as some of those are incredibly scarce...and very few were saved, assuming they aren't high mileage cars. Even the much rarer Firehawks are still getting overlooked for the more aggressive looks of the WS6. They aren't "IN" yet....not even in SOM. Give that another 5-15 years to turn around. Maybe even the early WS6 Formula hardtop cars will jump up a notch. The B4C cars are another choice...almost none survive in mint condition.

 

firebrian, well thought, I also feel the 96/97 WS6 cars will be worth as much or maybe more someday, there were actually numbered and low numbers compared to the 98/02 version

 

Probably so. Addressing the 1993-1997 cars is another story unto itself. A lot of those being "saved" started getting driven a lot more when the LS-1's showed up. The fact that the horsepower wars have continued is probably placing a ceiling on the prices of the 4th gens forever. It was one thing when Detroit was putting out mostly dogs from 1975-1992. The old 1960's muscle was actually a stronger car even 20 years later. Not any more. That's what got me into classic muscle cars in 1992. The old muscle cars were mostly faster than what Detroit was putting out....at a lot less money. My first car in 1992 was a 383 Roadrunner 4 speed with 3.55 gears...a solid rust free, #'s matching car for $3,000! It had a freshly built 383 that must have been pushing an additional 30-50 hp over the stock 335 hp (gross) rating (and those were underrated to give the 440 Magnum more bragging rights). That $3K went a lot further than say a $35K 1992 Vette....or a year later the 1993 Trans Am (275 hp net) came out for around $22K. And today? That $3K roadrunner with 65K miles today is a $15K-$20K car. This time around I bought the 1999 SS with 12K miles for $12K. The tables flipped around. The newer car is now the better performance deal imo. Both cars probably depreciate similarly if driven the same miles.

If 400-700 hp cars continue to be the norm, who is really going to care about a 350 hp WS6 or SS in 15-30 years? There's always going to be a nostalgic seat at the table for a 1969 Hemi Charger or a 1970 Chevelle SS 454. I don't know about a 2002 SOM WS6 or even a CETA. It's quite possible our typically "nice" 4th gens will never get out of the $10K-$20K range again....barring some type of incredible price inflation.

 

Interestingly, the same can generally be said for the entire WS6 package. Granted, they do handle better with the 17x9 wheels and 275/40 tires, but the 2mm larger front sway bar and 0.50" larger tail pipes don't really do anything to alter performance to a measurable degree, nor does the factory hood in stock, unsealed form. And yet, this package has increase value from the point of MSRP all the way to today's market. I think the same will be true for the anniversary/CETA package vs. just a low(er) production color.

And yet the #1 and #2 condition examples don't seem to be facing any unprecedented downward pressure on pricing as compared to equal or lesser condition examples of a more rare color. I'm not sure they ever will. Again, rarity doesn't always equal increased value in the real world marketplace (removing those wild card individuals who must have a certain car at any price - right place right time sort of deals). Look at some of the super rare colors, such as Bright Purple Metallic and Sport Gold Metallic. Very rare colors, very exclusive, much more rare than SOM in general, yet not very desirable and definitely not worth a premium to *most* (again excluding wild card purchasers.)

Again, for the most part such is the case for all of the 4th gen upper trim level cars, not just the anniversary packages. There are no rare engine or transmission options beyond the LT4 cars of the '97 model year, those are the only really "special" examples IMO. Yes, many options could be added to the SS and Firehawk cars, but these amount to little more than bolt-ons. Even still, well SLP-optioned SS/Firehawks are generally worth less than an otherwise comparable WS6 car - and the WS6 cars didn't even have model-specific options available.

I don't know, I think I have to mostly disagree. SOM is just a color, one that happens to be popular now but as it's not part of a factory designated special package or trim level that was worth more from day one, it's only more valuable during a period where it's trendy. Whether or not it's "the best color" is simply a matter of opinion. My Nova was originally Code 62 Burnt Orange - not too far off from the modern SOM. Nobody likes that color on the older cars, and during the restoration the previous owner had the entire car stripped and changed to Code 14 Cortez Silver. This didn't hurt the car's value at all as it's not any kind of COPO or Yenko model, so originality isn't a huge factor in it's value. I can tell you that I paid MORE for this car in silver than I would have in burnt orange, even though it's not the "correct" color for the car. Silver is generally more popular in the recent market for cars such as this, and therefore brings more money due to increased purchase competition. The same is true today of SOM on the 4th gens - it's less about the factory rarity of the color and more about the popularity in the current market. Again, if it was all about rarity alone, then SGM or BPM cars would be some of the most sought after, yet most people would take a pass on one unless the price was too good to say no. Trends can change, so I wouldn't bet the farm on the value of SOM. Even the Hugger [Monaco] Orange cars have had ups and downs in demand and pricing - both the '99 models and the '69/'70 models. Unlike SOM, there is some nostalgia associated with HO, which helps prop up the pricing.

Again, I don't feel as confident about those early rare colored cars. Most people don't like them, and they have already been mostly used up and forgotten. Few people would endure the cost, time and effort to restore a BGM '98 Z28 (for the record....I would *love* to have a BGM Z28, but I am one of very few) when they could more easily (and more cost-effectively) get a more desirable model that's been kept in excellent original shape, such as a 35th SS/LE, CETA or 30th Ann. WS6, and feel more confident in the value retention of their purchase. It would take several gamblers to stick their necks out and pay big money for some of the unpopular, undesirable early model year colors for there to be any hope of creating buzz and sustainable value preimums for said cars.

The WS6 Formulas you mentioned above, this is an excellent example of where true rarity isn't doing much to help their value. There are fewer LS1 WS6 Formulas total for all three years of production than any other trim level of LS1 car of even a single model year, and yet an '02 WS6 Trans Am in black, with an M6 and t-tops (super common configuration, not even close to rare in the world of 4th gens) is currently worth more, all else equal. Will it ever turn around? Who knows, trends can be fickle but I don't know that there are enough 4th gen enthusiasts in the hobby to ever stir up sufficient emotion to bring top tier value/recognition to options or trim levels that aren't already popular and desirable. I think it's already a tall order just to count on the current value trend of SOM to maintain or grow in the long term. I think that as these cars continue to age and head into the territory of most examples being either junk or show cars, it will be the most memorable and popular-when-new options, and anniversary/LE editions, that will be most sought after. I think the restoration market will be weak, lacking in high quality parts much like the current climate for the 3rd gens, and that most 4th gen collectors will want the nicest examples that can be had, which will often be those original anniversary/CE/LE type cars that have been stashed and don't require restoration.