kyoytey1693

iTrader: (7)

Thanks man

HUMPorDIE

I don't really think this is a rice trend either, it's something from racing and classic cars, and can be nearly iconic on some cars. white walls being the case in point they may not be a big deal currently, but if you drive a 63 continental, you'll probably want white walls on it.

*JC*

It won't ever happen unless we the hobbyist start doing it ourselves. The Tire Mfg will quickly start following the trend once they see there's a market for it. Right now they've got no incentive to make such offerings, they're in the doldrums and because most ordinary people don't see such offerings they've become conditioned that white letter tires wouldn't be liked.

As I said earlier these aftermarket stickers come in varying sizes, so one could order some, that would be appropriately sized for the sidewalls. This would alleviate many of the concerns you've mentioned. If enough of us do it then the tire Mfg's will take notice and in a couple of years, we'd have such seamless optimal size white letter tires coming to market.

I'm in the market to buy a new set of tires for my ride, just haven't settled on what I'll get just yet. I'm still researching various brands but when I do decide upon some, I might just give this white letter sticker thing a shot, if I can find some to suit me? Like you, I'd want them to be proportionally sized correctly. they would have to cover only the already imprinted letters on the tires, nothing bigger or smaller. I go to lots of cruise-in's and shows, so anything such as this is sure to grab attention and be thought provoking.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

For what its worth, I tried white-walling my tires (painting inside the lines) with rubber life raft paint and it was a disaster...

*JC*

Yea, I can see how that would turn foul real quick. Paint & rubber not a good combination. But I like that you was creative in trying a method. I've had a few ideas that sounded good in theory, but in practice they didn't turnout so good. However the upside is they often lead to a better idea that turned out much better even if deviated greatly from the orginial idea.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Again, I don't disagree with any of the above. If the letters could be sized and shaped to perfectly fit inside of existing letters on a given sidewall, that would be interesting to me. However I'm guessing that such would not be possible without some trimming or complete custom cutting. Not sure I'd be willing to commit to that degree of effort, but without a perfect fit I'd rather not have them at all.

Having said that, I'm still concerned about durability. These days, I tend to keep a set of tires for at least 10 years on my garage queens, so anything I do to them would be with me for a very long time. I wonder what sort of cosmetic damage the glue might do to the sidewalls if, for some reason, things didn't work as planned and they had to be removed? Some people replace tires often, and are therefore unconcerned with long term considerations; I'm in a different situation with my 4th gen though.

Didn't Paul Bell recently post some pictures in the staff lounge of a some white letter tires he painted for his Monte Carlo? They looked fantastic from what I remember, but I don't recall what sort of paint he used.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Yea, this was his in-process and final pic. He used regular auto touch-up paint, I think:

Chris Paveglio

iTrader: (2)

What I have done with good success is buy some neoprene rubber backed with some mesh - it was a "chemical apron" from Grainger or U-Line supply. It's like 1mm thick. I took photos of my tires showing the letters. I took them so the letters were in the middle of the frame to eliminate distortion. Traced the pic in my graphics program. Printed the outlines on paper. Use double sided tape to stick paper onto the neoprene. Cut letters with an Exacto knife. Took about an hour for 4 words for a set of tires. Then gently shaved/cut the letters on the tires smooth (there was a fat outline) and then used industrial super glue to glue the yellow letter to tire. I've also tried contact cement (a little more flexible) and the longevity is about the same. On my daily driver Honda, letters last about a year if I am sort of careful and don't take corners fast. This past year they have lasted less long but I've been doing some fast cornering and a few long highway road trips. They are easy to clean up with Bleche-White or tire cleaner, and I can scrub them gently to bring them back to clean (mine are yellow letters but white would work the same I imagine).
I would never try this on my Trans Am, just because I'm a corner carver and autocrosser and they would never hold up to the cornering abuse. If a mfr made a tire with RWL standard I'd buy it. But 4-5 hours a year redoing the letters for my DD is enough time spent.

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/...s=yellow+apron

kyoytey1693

iTrader: (7)

I've done white letters on most of my vehicles over the years. I've experimented with a lot of options. Tirelettermate makes a pen that is designed for painting or touching up already existing letters. They work pretty well but are time consuming. To take a completely black tire and add white letters usually takes about 3 coats. Otherwise you see the black bleed through. After that they can handle regular driving, car washes, rain etc. pretty well. Maybe going back over them every 3 months or so depending on your expectations.

Another thing that helps a lot is acrylic clear. This is similar to what turtle wax and others use in their tire shines. (The ones that you spray on and let dry) they usually claim to be good for 3 months or so. Buying some regular acrylic clear in a rattle can is a lot cheaper. Plus you can get it in any finish you want depending on how much you want your tires to shine. The clear really helps to protect the white letters if you paint them on.

There are a few companies that make tire stickers. Most of them offer the same font as your most common tire manufacturers and you can specify what size and font you want your letters. So getting an exact fit shouldn't be too hard. I just wanted big exaggerated letters...

The letters are actual rubber. They feel just like the white wall on a white wall tire. So I think they will be fairly durable and retain their brightness fairly well also. Baring any curb rash or huge pot holes. I can't say for sure what the glue is but it seems a lot like the tire cement you would use for plugging a tire. That being said, I don't think it will have any ill effects on the sidewall and should be able to be removed if you ever choose to without damaging the tire.

*JC*

He's correct at least one company offers exact match sizing & Font. They do ask for a scan of a tracing so they can get it right. Yes, that might be a bit more troublesome but if your wanting it right, then these are the sort of pains that comes with perfection.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Some great info and experience posted above by kyoytey1693. Very helpful. In fact, after reading the above, I spent some time looking at the various options from a couple of sources and found that the below quote seems to be the case:

The more generic versions of these letters, though the font may be correct, simply won't fit the existing tire markings in those universal sizes. It would take a scan/precision measurements to get the right fit/font, and then likely a bit of trimming after the fact as well. I've also spent some time looking at several close-up images and, to me, this modification looks sloppy unless the letters are perfectly positioned over (or inside of, for those tires with raised outlined black letters - such as my current tires) the existing factory letters. While I like the look/concept, I'm not convinced that I'd like it enough to justify the cost and effort at this time.

*JC*, it sounds as though you are similarly demanding about fit/finish in this regard. If you do go forward with this, I'd be interested in seeing your results. I may be inspired to move forward with this myself if the finished product is indistinguishable from a factory RWL tire upon close inspection.

*JC*

LOL, and that's putting it kindly. You bet, I can be tenacious in that aspect. That's not to say I won't do quick fixes and short cuts. If I'm stuck on the side of the road with an exhaust pipe dragging, I'm not above using a wire coat hanger to address the immediate problem. However, your right when I want something done right it, it has to be perfect. My perfect is pretty demanding and most people wouldn't see an issue that would bother me. Just to give an example of how much of a pain I can be when it comes to such stuff. I'll take the time to set down and cut off all the rubber **** from the sidewall of a new tire.


I'm putting a lot research and consideration into it. I know it'll be impossible to get a seamless finish as a tire made directly from a mold. However, if one has to have their eye 12" from the tire to notice they've been applied afterwards, then I think you've got a good fit for the given product. If it can be seen from 5 feet away or more then it's going to look tacky.

First things first of course, I've got to determine what tires I'll be purchasing? I'm still undecided on that and researching it.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

This thread keeps going... It makes me want to go back and perfect the rubber boat paint. I had so much success putting the rubber nipples on my car - why not?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Haha, this sounds so familiar that it's like looking in a mirror. I wouldn't even know where to begin with personal examples, except to say that we are definitely on the same page here.

Certain things tend to bother me more than others, and in this case I think I'd have to see some close-up examples that are shockingly well integrated before I'd be able to consider it myself.

Drewstein

This is exactly why it's rice. The letters in motorsport are colored because they are sponsors and want everyone to see their name on the product. There's no performance reason, just advertising.

You are not sponsored by a tire company. They don't care if someone knows that JC is running Nitto over Hoosier. You imitating this is rice. Ricers imitate motorsport with their stickers like they're sponsored which isn't the case either.

Trends don't mean good. I still hear kids saying "got naws" on a weekly basis. Wings are still on family sedans and box shaped vehicles driven by rodents.

Your car isn't an original Cobra or a car that came with white walls. A 50s chevy on white walls, cool and classic.

I'm a function over form guy. I have an exhaust exiting my bumper afterall. I didn't do it because it looks cool or not. It looks cool because it has purpose.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

So I found a couple pictures today that represent the best job I've seen so far in this regard. These letters seem to perfectly fit over preexisting black letters on the sidewall. I don't know anything about the source of these specific letters, but the quality of fit is a hopeful indication of what can be done when the letters are properly sized:

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

I still don't think this is fair and by this line of reasoning, we should all head out and get some spray paint so we can urgently rattle-can our Pontiac and Chevrolet logos away. Every car with a brand or name plate on it is rice.

Looking at the dictionary would be helpful for this:

Whitewalls are common factory-supplied features of tires and cars. It's fair to criticize them as retro styling or specific implementations of them as retro styling gone wrong - but not rice. Criticizing the brand of tire is another thing, but that has nothing to do with the name plate showing. (BTW - Many "American" tire nameplate are now owned by Asian companies and these tires come on "American" cars. Again - this doesn't make them rice.)

themealonwheels

iTrader: (20)

What Drewstein was getting at (I think) is that adding tire stickers is highlighting something previously not highlighted by the supplier. Automobile manufacturers highlight their car's brand, model and trim by adding badging. That's factory. Adding tire stickers to a set of tires that didn't originally come with them is "rice". It's like taking a GTO and adding 15 more emblems/decals that say GTO and LS1/LS2/LSX all over the car. Remember the images of that yellow GTO floating around the internet with something like 22 mentions of GTO? That's rice.

In the end, adding stickers and decals on cars is almost the definition of rice. I'm guilty of it at times, my Hombre has a "Power Tour" decal and a "I hate your Prius" decal on the back window. My Camaro has a "Power Tour" decal and a Longhorn. Any time I add a decal, I think back to F&F. If I find I still want to put it on there, so be it.

Tire decals are rice, JMO.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

When the stickers don't perfectly match the existing sidewall design, it looks sloppy to me. When/if they are wildly oversized and/or say things that the tire didn't originally say, it looks ricey to me. When it's a clean application like the '97 SS I posted above, I don't really see how it could be called rice as it's really just a color change to the existing manufacturer's design. Many people change the color of their factory badges either with a new emblem or a vinyl overlay - it's really not rice unless, for example, you're putting Z28 badges on a V6 car (that still has a V6) or something like this. If it's a Z28 and you're changing the color of the badge from black to red, it's a styling choice (for better or worse) and not a misrepresentation or extreme exaggeration. Again using the '97 SS posted above as an example, those stickers simply change the color of a preexisting design, without exaggerating or misrepresenting it, and do so in such a way that it really could have been a factory implementation (as RWL tires are still produced and used today - and were a common factory feature for a long time.)

People were doing things like this LONG before "rice" (a term that began with asian imports, then came to define suggestively modified asian imports that offered no real increase in performance, and now it can apparently include cars that aren't even asian) hit the scene as any sort of popular contender in the US automotive hobby. Several decades ago you'd see all kinds of stickers covering the back windows of many privately owned, non-sponsored performance cars....names like Holley, Edelbrock, Hooker, etc. These weren't track only cars, just stuff you'd see at local cruise-ins on a Friday or Saturday night. This trend for domestics mostly faded by the later '90s as it became associated with "rice", but ricers certainly didn't invent it.

AnotherWs6

iTrader: (17)

This guy thinks the fact that the reason most people don't like white lettering and why most tires today don't have white lettering is a conspiracy by tire makers. One word.....

Wow