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I'm running 275/40's in front and 315/35's in back. Yes it tugs all over the place at low speed and drags in the direction of the crown but it looks damn cool with a 2 inch lip in back.
This is not a combination i would have purchased they came on the car. As soon as I can afford it I'm going to square it up with 275's on the rear. I have to admidt it was set up well with no rear spacers and virtually no rub inside except 1 spot at the front inside that I dimpled, however I did have to roll the lips. My car is a toy if I bought it for a daily they would have been swapped immediately before any modifications. Tire rotation is imperative for a daily, not so much for a 3k mile a year toy.
I'm running 275/40's in front and 315/35's in back. Yes it tugs all over the place at low speed and drags in the direction of the crown
Showroom stock F body racing for 3rd + 4th gen is a very narrow illustration, but useful. 16X8's and 17X9's. Not much choice. Intuition would be the 9" wheels produce faster lap times. They don't.
Not over a couple of decades of race results, which are available for everyone's interpretation.
Last edited by LSX Thunder; 05-24-2023 at 08:43 PM.
this is the heaviest, most uncompetitive 4th gen he's ever seen. He's right.
Not a Showroom Stock competitor, nor a modified one. An experiment inspired by McLaren Cars. All that steel in the second photo is heavy but does produce just about the most rigid 4th gen F body without carbon fiber body panels (see Joe Rogan's). Is the bridge work triangulation really sane? Today it runs around the streets with those previously mentioned square 18"'s on 285/35 Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Not staggered. No 19's, 20's (24's?) need apply. Tried some, dynamically inferior. My HSV's, 2014 Z/28, Caprice PPV's and Holden Caprice Royale's are as different from a 4th gen F as the 5th gen F is. Wildly different weight distributions too. The 5th gen F (like the 14 Z) barely achieves 53/47 WD, the 3rd and 4th gen F are even worse, and so they require acceptance of what they are. Do enough surgery to get any of them to a 50/50 WD and you no longer have a F body. It's easier and more satisfying to start with a 50/50 WD (the ~119" WB Holdens) and work from there. Cosmetically: Almost every photo of a staggered set up looks better than mine. "It is better to look good than to feel good" was considered very hilarious many years ago, and looking great still dominates the values of many. Celebrate diversity. Automotively, I am prejudiced, no point denying it. Function over form? Hardly applies in Showroom Stock when my choices eliminate my efforts. Does the above create a fine performing if homely street car? Yes, but in truth the ~119" WB cars all perform better. The Iron Law of WD is real. Don't tell 911 owners.
It's a new day and one day closer to making a decision. I'll have to go and air up my 245/50-16s before I go to work; I've probably leaked out 5psi from those crusty 16x8 beads.
Since I've already ordered the fender roller, I figure I'll stick with the 18x9.5 35mm. I'm so used to looking at my car with 16s that the 18s seems too much ........
It's a new day and one day closer to making a decision. I'll have to go and air up my 245/50-16s before I go to work; I've probably leaked out 5psi from those crusty 16x8 beads.
Since I've already ordered the fender roller, I figure I'll stick with the 18x9.5 35mm. I'm so used to looking at my car with 16s that the 18s seems too much ........
No, perfection! At least near as I've been able to learn, and for the moment. The Evil Empire may well outlaw all fossil fuels and a Lucid Air Sapphire will look even better than it does now.
It is a little disconcerting to know that if you could find a proper 16" tire for those 16X8" wheels they would outperform or at least equal any larger diameter and wider set of wheels and tires. No matter, no one can find such a 16" tire. Those days are gone. Even if like me you own a set of amazingly light/strong forged 16" wheels. Useless in 2023, only fit for a coffee table base. All too soon it will be true for 17's. All the tire manufacturers are Hell bent on it. Once Pirelli and others made fabulous 15" tires. No more.
Do reflect on the advantages of finding the lightest/strongest 18" wheels. Be discriminating (a foul word to the morons) and segregate those ultra heavy, steelie-like boat anchors to the junkyard where they belong. Be prejudiced, it's a human survival trait now held in disrepute, just like judgmental. Don't listen to them, they lie, like the Evil Empire.
PS
For a while I had a NB MazdaSpeed Miata with the extensive MazdaSpeed chassis bracing that I ran RX-8 OEM 18X8" wheels with 205/35-18 MPS4s's. BEST handling car I've ever owned, just too damn small to ever be comfortable in.
No, perfection! At least near as I've been able to learn, and for the moment. The Evil Empire may well outlaw all fossil fuels and a Lucid Air Sapphire will look even better than it does now.
It is a little disconcerting to know that if you could find a proper 16" tire for those 16X8" wheels they would outperform or at least equal any larger diameter and wider set of wheels and tires. No matter, no one can find such a 16" tire. Those days are gone. Even if like me you own a set of amazingly light/strong forged 16" wheels. Useless in 2023, only fit for a coffee table base. All too soon it will be true for 17's. All the tire manufacturers are Hell bent on it. Once Pirelli and others made fabulous 15" tires. No more.
Do reflect on the advantages of finding the lightest/strongest 18" wheels. Be discriminating (a foul word to the morons) and segregate those ultra heavy, steelie-like boat anchors to the junkyard where they belong. Be prejudiced, it's a human survival trait now held in disrepute, just like judgmental. Don't listen to them, they lie, like the Evil Empire.
LOL. The only tire I know of for the 15s is Cooper. That's what I have on the `79. Actually the BF Goodrich tires have been great on the 16s.
I just hope before the "Evil Empire" puts an end to the fuel pump - I would have gotten my money's worth out of all that dough that I pour into the TA.
LOL. The only tire I know of for the 15s is Cooper. That's what I have on the `79. Actually the BF Goodrich tires have been great on the 16s..
I still use their 275/60-15 T/A on one of my dog cars, the 96 Fleetwood 8,000-pound Limo. The 7,300 pound 96 Fleetwood Limo runs 96 Impala SS wheels with Nitto 275/50-17's. They handle about the same. Might be do to both having the F+R 1 1/2" solid Quickor sway bars and full hard Koni adjustables. Ride nice and smooth and comfortable on cross country blasts only stopping for comfort breaks and fuel. We don't need no pet friendly motels!
I just hope before the "Evil Empire" puts an end to the fuel pump - I would have gotten my money's worth out of all that dough that I pour into the TA.
You already have. "Life is just fairer than death", not a cost effective one. It is an always fatal, sexually transmitted disease. "The trick is not minding".
Good point. She's been a daily driver for the last 20+ years. And she still looks pretty decent. I didn't want to go chrome because it might be like putting lipstick on a pig (sorry black beauty).
Good point. She's been a daily driver for the last 20+ years. And she still looks pretty decent. I didn't want to go chrome because it might be like putting lipstick on a pig (sorry black beauty).
Ouch .... I can assure you that was not on my mind when I said what I said!
Just some lame humor on my part. I remember all the truly hateful things Obama said and the damage he did, so I take any opportunity to remind people of what he really was.
16X8's, the holy grail at one time. The Limo's made due with 15X7's. Those 275/60-15's are 28" diameter and a 9" wide tread and will eventually be replaced by 2014 Caprice PPV steel wheels 18 X 8" and some big enough with enough load rating Michelin tires. The Limos come with dedicated "Limo use only" 15X7 aluminum HD wheels to carry all the weight. The hub is deliberately made so that all the other GM aluminum wheels won't fit over it. Even the 94 Impala SS wheels. The hub size of the wheel is too small to fit on the Limo, even though both are 5X5 bolt pattern. Motorsport Tech of Reno, NV had to custom make wheel adaptors so they could fit. For some reason this morning the site won't post photos.
Last edited by LSX Thunder; 05-25-2023 at 11:29 AM.
I just hope before the "Evil Empire" puts an end to the fuel pump - I would have gotten my money's worth out of all that dough that I pour into the TA.
No worries. I am a Gasoholic (or, I guess folks on the left would call me a Gashole), and I am committed to gasoline until my last breath. I will begin refining petroleum products in my back yard if necessary, but I will continue to operate ICE engines until they put me in the ground. God help them if they try to stop me. Just look what happened when they tried to stop the flow of alcohol in the 1920s...haha, folks got drunker than ever.
FWIW, my '71 still has 15x7" Cragars with BFG tires, and my '74 is even further behind the times with 14" wheels. BFG, Cooper, M/T (and maybe a few others) all still make tires in these sizes.
No worries. I am a Gasoholic (or, I guess folks on the left would call me a Gashole), and I am committed to gasoline until my last breath. I will begin refining petroleum products in my back yard if necessary, but I will continue to operate ICE engines until they put me in the ground. God help them if they try to stop me. Just look what happened when they tried to stop the flow of alcohol in the 1920s...haha, folks got drunker than ever.
FWIW, my '71 still has 15x7" Cragars with BFG tires, and my '74 is even further behind the times with 14" wheels. BFG, Cooper, M/T (and maybe a few others) all still make tires in these sizes.
Speaking of alcohol, in those ancient times, Model A's and T's all ran on farm produced alcohol, aka E100. Today in Uruguay, lots of modern cars run there on E100, which is 111 octane, even E85 is 107 octane. Dodge Super Stock runs just fine on it, so do the Caprice PPV's. No petroleum required or desired. 14 and 15" wheels get an easy swap to Caprice PPV 18X8" steel wheels with a 5X4 3/4" bolt pattern and a 46 mm offset. 35 and 40 series 18" tires shine with them. 36 pounds each but tough as nails and the Chevy wheel covers bolt on with 1/2" bolts. No more lost ones.
"BFG, Cooper, M/T (and maybe a few others) all still make tires in these sizes."
Very true, some of them fairly good performers, but nothing transforms a 71 or 74 like Pilot Super Sports on an 18X8" wheel. Motorsport tech will widen them too, but there really is no good reason to. An A body can now have a suspension worthy of a 255/40-18 MPSS and an 8" wide wheel is all they need. Detroit Speed, BMR and UMI and many others can help you recreate an A body for far less than the cost of a new car.
Back in post #21 I went on about chassis rigidity. This video does a nice job of expanding on that. Don't be put off by the body on frame vs unibody. The principles are consistent. In this case, the modified chassis weighs less than the OEM.
First, my apologies to TA_Freak for the thread hi-jack.
Originally Posted by LSX Thunder
Very true, some of them fairly good performers, but nothing transforms a 71 or 74 like Pilot Super Sports on an 18X8" wheel.
My '71 is setup in "Day 2" street/strip fashion with traction bars, 1" taller rear tires, 4-wheel drum brakes, and an Auburn high bias rear; the typical sort of hotrod build from the late '70s/'80s when I was a kid. 18" wheels are definitely not my style for old fossils like this, and road course handling is not really part of the program for this car:
The '74 is an all-stock low mileage car with factory Oldsmobile Super Stock wheels that are color matched to the car, including the original Goodyear Polyglas spare, definitely not going 18" with this car either (pardon the dirty trunk, these pictures are from when I bought it):
You wrote "18" wheels are definitely not my style for old fossils like this, and road course handling is not really part of the program for this car"
I understand. I was influenced by this site being LS1Tech and your Previous LSx Vehicles:
2002 Camaro Z28 | 2000 Trans Am WS6 | 1999 Camaro Z28
I now see you know some things deserve better than Resto modding them, I even agree.
I don't think the thread was hi-jacked, just expanded upon. The juxtaposing of your 71 Nova SS with this:
is only possible because the 1971 Nova SS was such a great car. Even GM asserted that it was mostly 1971 Camaro SS, all the best parts of it. The SS emblem above came off a 1968 Camaro SS 396. Homage or Heresy?
05-24-2023, 07:51 PM
