View Poll Results: Best radar detector.
Valentine One
24
60.00%
Passport 9500i
13
32.50%
Other(post which dectector)
3
7.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll
Valentine One VS Passport 9500i
06-13-2009, 11:50 PM
#22
Are some features useless you decide!!!!!! I like how no one had even addressed that picking up a signal from behind is useless (see earlier post).
So that makes the second waveguide (antenna) for the V1 useless except you need it for directionality for their cool arrows. But if you wait to hit the brakes until you look at the arrows to figure out where its coming from (CRAGER) then bam you just got a ticket on from the instant on guys.
That why the escort rocks, NO FALSE ALARMS, so ALARM=BRAKE. That is sometimes fast enough to knock 5-7 mph off the instant on and save the traffic stop.
I OWN THE 9500 IT HAS ONLY A FORWARD FACING RADAR WAVEGUARD (ONE)
the LASER has multiple sensors for 360
Ed
So that makes the second waveguide (antenna) for the V1 useless except you need it for directionality for their cool arrows. But if you wait to hit the brakes until you look at the arrows to figure out where its coming from (CRAGER) then bam you just got a ticket on from the instant on guys.
That why the escort rocks, NO FALSE ALARMS, so ALARM=BRAKE. That is sometimes fast enough to knock 5-7 mph off the instant on and save the traffic stop.
I OWN THE 9500 IT HAS ONLY A FORWARD FACING RADAR WAVEGUARD (ONE)
the LASER has multiple sensors for 360
Ed
06-14-2009, 01:11 AM
#23
((((((Administrator))))))
Behind matters, and the 9500 has JUST as many false alarms. Thats why in your GPS mode you can mark/delete them. If you had NO false alarms then WHY do you have that option...
The V1 in edit mode you can turn off the X band, K band, anything. You can program it however you want. Even better you can track waaaaay more signals on the V1. At one car meet that was getting busted up and I left, my V1 had 13 signals. False signal is no big deal, either turn off X band or watch your signal counter.
Like I said, the 9500 has some nice features. The GPS is nice, marking spots, red light light camera's location's. Just the V1 is a better detector. Catches it first, and holds onto the signal longer as you pass.
~ Craig
The V1 in edit mode you can turn off the X band, K band, anything. You can program it however you want. Even better you can track waaaaay more signals on the V1. At one car meet that was getting busted up and I left, my V1 had 13 signals. False signal is no big deal, either turn off X band or watch your signal counter.
Like I said, the 9500 has some nice features. The GPS is nice, marking spots, red light light camera's location's. Just the V1 is a better detector. Catches it first, and holds onto the signal longer as you pass.
~ Craig
06-14-2009, 09:38 AM
#25
Electronic Detection Operation I'm sorry you have no experience with real electronic detection systems. You don't understand the definition of false alarms, the dynamics of human/electronic interface and its effects on Nrd (nominal recognition differential) and you don't understand what the escort is doing behind the scenes (inside the box).
1) A false alarm is anything that causes the operator to acknowledge or further analyze to classify and prioritize.
a) Since the escort produces less FALSE ALARMS read an audible or visual signal that indicates a radar or laser is in the area than the Valentine. Yet the Escort is as sensitive as the Valentine in all of the bands of interest any alarms received by operator will by human nature be given a higher priority. That means as I previously stated, I just slam on my brakes when my Escort goes off. Since it has less alarms when I get one I don't need to investigate first since the probability that is really speed radar is higher.
b) I know that both the Valentine and Escort could be made even more sensitive but the number of false alarms for both sensor would be too high and therefore give you even more cases of alarms not being speed radar causing you to take even more time deciding if its real or not.
c) I even said that maybe the valentine is a little more sensitive but not having to consider whether it real or not on the way to work every morning is awesome.
2) Human/electronic interface. The equipment to be effective not only has to detect the signal it has to present the information in a form that is effective for human processing. "Behind matters, and the 9500 has JUST as many false alarms. " No, it doesn't unless your processor is saturated. In todays electronic spectrum with the narrow ranges that speed radar has to operate they are not processor limited.
a) THIS IS THE PART YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND FALSE ALARMS are a measurement of human/electronic interface. If the detector detects a radar signal and decides on its own that it is not a threat and it isn't displayed, the human is out of the equation therefore no false alarm.
b) So any alarms are treated with more urgency, it’s human nature. You know the old story The Boy that Cried Wolf (cop). The time for the human to process and react to a detected signal is effected by the percentage of times they process a signal and it's valid.
3) The escort actually not only records the GPS location but the signal type, characteristics and strength. If any of those parameters change the detector will alarm. That way if cop K-band shows up at the site where a K-band security system is the detector will alarm.
"The V1 in edit mode you can turn off the X band, K band, anything. You can program it however you want. Even better you can track waaaaay more signals on the V1. At one car meet that was getting busted up and I left, my V1 had 13 signals. False signal is no big deal, either turn off X band or watch your signal counter."
The escort doesn't have to(but you can) turn any of its detection channels off like you have to if you’re getting excesses number of detections. That’s the beauty of it. Multiple signals is not sequential detections but simultaneous detects! You car show story doesn't confirm what type they are. I have posted the escort capability to track signals. I spent quite a while reading the Valentines manual and searching the website. IT DOES NOT STATE THE CAPABILTIES/NUMBER OF TRACKING MULTIPLE SIGNALS. So where did you get your information?? I'm sure that it can track simultaneous signals it just post them but can it display them? Please post and quote!
PASSPORT’s ExpertMeter
simultaneously tracks up to 8 radar signals.
It provides detailed information on up to 2
Ka-band, 2 K-band, and 4 X-band signals.
Owner manual
CRAGER you are a moderator you shouldn't just put out information that isn't backed up by facts and make it sound like it is. People look up to you with all your time invested in the group. Please keep an open mind and just state your opinion or experiences (which you did with your upgrade policy and such). Your facts like the Valentines 2 antennas allow for directionality to be displayed which enables the driver to assess the threat faster(which means resolve false alarms more accurately and quicker). That’s a great fact to help someone make an informed decision.
I don't know but if the Valentine is more sensitive or not which if it is I have know problem because it is a great product it would be the better choice if the person was not driving the same repeative route everyday. The GPS system to reduce false alarms is only effective if you’re driving on the same route.
Ed
I'm going to send this post to Mike at Valentine, I belief he makes a great product and is honest and that will let him address the issues I have raised which are the one that made me choose the 9500 IX over the Valentine.
1) A false alarm is anything that causes the operator to acknowledge or further analyze to classify and prioritize.
a) Since the escort produces less FALSE ALARMS read an audible or visual signal that indicates a radar or laser is in the area than the Valentine. Yet the Escort is as sensitive as the Valentine in all of the bands of interest any alarms received by operator will by human nature be given a higher priority. That means as I previously stated, I just slam on my brakes when my Escort goes off. Since it has less alarms when I get one I don't need to investigate first since the probability that is really speed radar is higher.
b) I know that both the Valentine and Escort could be made even more sensitive but the number of false alarms for both sensor would be too high and therefore give you even more cases of alarms not being speed radar causing you to take even more time deciding if its real or not.
c) I even said that maybe the valentine is a little more sensitive but not having to consider whether it real or not on the way to work every morning is awesome.
2) Human/electronic interface. The equipment to be effective not only has to detect the signal it has to present the information in a form that is effective for human processing. "Behind matters, and the 9500 has JUST as many false alarms. " No, it doesn't unless your processor is saturated. In todays electronic spectrum with the narrow ranges that speed radar has to operate they are not processor limited.
a) THIS IS THE PART YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND FALSE ALARMS are a measurement of human/electronic interface. If the detector detects a radar signal and decides on its own that it is not a threat and it isn't displayed, the human is out of the equation therefore no false alarm.
b) So any alarms are treated with more urgency, it’s human nature. You know the old story The Boy that Cried Wolf (cop). The time for the human to process and react to a detected signal is effected by the percentage of times they process a signal and it's valid.
3) The escort actually not only records the GPS location but the signal type, characteristics and strength. If any of those parameters change the detector will alarm. That way if cop K-band shows up at the site where a K-band security system is the detector will alarm.
"The V1 in edit mode you can turn off the X band, K band, anything. You can program it however you want. Even better you can track waaaaay more signals on the V1. At one car meet that was getting busted up and I left, my V1 had 13 signals. False signal is no big deal, either turn off X band or watch your signal counter."
The escort doesn't have to(but you can) turn any of its detection channels off like you have to if you’re getting excesses number of detections. That’s the beauty of it. Multiple signals is not sequential detections but simultaneous detects! You car show story doesn't confirm what type they are. I have posted the escort capability to track signals. I spent quite a while reading the Valentines manual and searching the website. IT DOES NOT STATE THE CAPABILTIES/NUMBER OF TRACKING MULTIPLE SIGNALS. So where did you get your information?? I'm sure that it can track simultaneous signals it just post them but can it display them? Please post and quote!
PASSPORT’s ExpertMeter
simultaneously tracks up to 8 radar signals.
It provides detailed information on up to 2
Ka-band, 2 K-band, and 4 X-band signals.
Owner manual
CRAGER you are a moderator you shouldn't just put out information that isn't backed up by facts and make it sound like it is. People look up to you with all your time invested in the group. Please keep an open mind and just state your opinion or experiences (which you did with your upgrade policy and such). Your facts like the Valentines 2 antennas allow for directionality to be displayed which enables the driver to assess the threat faster(which means resolve false alarms more accurately and quicker). That’s a great fact to help someone make an informed decision.
I don't know but if the Valentine is more sensitive or not which if it is I have know problem because it is a great product it would be the better choice if the person was not driving the same repeative route everyday. The GPS system to reduce false alarms is only effective if you’re driving on the same route.
Ed
I'm going to send this post to Mike at Valentine, I belief he makes a great product and is honest and that will let him address the issues I have raised which are the one that made me choose the 9500 IX over the Valentine.
06-14-2009, 09:49 AM
#26
Heres the email I sent.
Dear Mike;
I want to give you a chance to address certain product information issues that were recently discussed on our forum. I was discussing my decision to go with the Escort 9500 IX over your product. It wasn’t an easy decision as I respect your product and stated beliefs. I posted the facts that made me come to my decision and defended them. The facts weren’t well counterpointed and I wanted to get good factual information so as to correct any of my conclusions be they incorrect. Below is the last post and here is the link. If you could take the time out of your busy schedule to respond I would be more than happy to post them verbatim! Getting accurate information out on the forums is what’s important to me so fellow enthusiast can make their own decisions based on facts.
Dear Mike;
I want to give you a chance to address certain product information issues that were recently discussed on our forum. I was discussing my decision to go with the Escort 9500 IX over your product. It wasn’t an easy decision as I respect your product and stated beliefs. I posted the facts that made me come to my decision and defended them. The facts weren’t well counterpointed and I wanted to get good factual information so as to correct any of my conclusions be they incorrect. Below is the last post and here is the link. If you could take the time out of your busy schedule to respond I would be more than happy to post them verbatim! Getting accurate information out on the forums is what’s important to me so fellow enthusiast can make their own decisions based on facts.
06-14-2009, 11:18 AM
#28
((((((Administrator))))))
I'm sorry you have no experience with real electronic detection systems. You don't understand the definition of false alarms, the dynamics of human/electronic interface and its effects on Nrd (nominal recognition differential) and you don't understand what the escort is doing behind the scenes (inside the box).
1) A false alarm is anything that causes the operator to acknowledge or further analyze to classify and prioritize.
a) Since the escort produces less FALSE ALARMS read an audible or visual signal that indicates a radar or laser is in the area than the Valentine. Yet the Escort is as sensitive as the Valentine in all of the bands of interest any alarms received by operator will by human nature be given a higher priority. That means as I previously stated, I just slam on my brakes when my Escort goes off. Since it has less alarms when I get one I don't need to investigate first since the probability that is really speed radar is higher.
b) I know that both the Valentine and Escort could be made even more sensitive but the number of false alarms for both sensor would be too high and therefore give you even more cases of alarms not being speed radar causing you to take even more time deciding if its real or not.
c) I even said that maybe the valentine is a little more sensitive but not having to consider whether it real or not on the way to work every morning is awesome.
2) Human/electronic interface. The equipment to be effective not only has to detect the signal it has to present the information in a form that is effective for human processing. "Behind matters, and the 9500 has JUST as many false alarms. " No, it doesn't unless your processor is saturated. In todays electronic spectrum with the narrow ranges that speed radar has to operate they are not processor limited.
a) THIS IS THE PART YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND FALSE ALARMS are a measurement of human/electronic interface. If the detector detects a radar signal and decides on its own that it is not a threat and it isn't displayed, the human is out of the equation therefore no false alarm.
b) So any alarms are treated with more urgency, it’s human nature. You know the old story The Boy that Cried Wolf (cop). The time for the human to process and react to a detected signal is effected by the percentage of times they process a signal and it's valid.
3) The escort actually not only records the GPS location but the signal type, characteristics and strength. If any of those parameters change the detector will alarm. That way if cop K-band shows up at the site where a K-band security system is the detector will alarm.
"The V1 in edit mode you can turn off the X band, K band, anything. You can program it however you want. Even better you can track waaaaay more signals on the V1. At one car meet that was getting busted up and I left, my V1 had 13 signals. False signal is no big deal, either turn off X band or watch your signal counter."
The escort doesn't have to(but you can) turn any of its detection channels off like you have to if you’re getting excesses number of detections. That’s the beauty of it. Multiple signals is not sequential detections but simultaneous detects! You car show story doesn't confirm what type they are. I have posted the escort capability to track signals. I spent quite a while reading the Valentines manual and searching the website. IT DOES NOT STATE THE CAPABILTIES/NUMBER OF TRACKING MULTIPLE SIGNALS. So where did you get your information?? I'm sure that it can track simultaneous signals it just post them but can it display them? Please post and quote!
PASSPORT’s ExpertMeter
simultaneously tracks up to 8 radar signals.
It provides detailed information on up to 2
Ka-band, 2 K-band, and 4 X-band signals.
Owner manual
CRAGER you are a moderator you shouldn't just put out information that isn't backed up by facts and make it sound like it is. People look up to you with all your time invested in the group. Please keep an open mind and just state your opinion or experiences (which you did with your upgrade policy and such). Your facts like the Valentines 2 antennas allow for directionality to be displayed which enables the driver to assess the threat faster(which means resolve false alarms more accurately and quicker). That’s a great fact to help someone make an informed decision.
I don't know but if the Valentine is more sensitive or not which if it is I have know problem because it is a great product it would be the better choice if the person was not driving the same repeative route everyday. The GPS system to reduce false alarms is only effective if you’re driving on the same route.
Ed
I'm going to send this post to Mike at Valentine, I belief he makes a great product and is honest and that will let him address the issues I have raised which are the one that made me choose the 9500 IX over the Valentine.
1) A false alarm is anything that causes the operator to acknowledge or further analyze to classify and prioritize.
a) Since the escort produces less FALSE ALARMS read an audible or visual signal that indicates a radar or laser is in the area than the Valentine. Yet the Escort is as sensitive as the Valentine in all of the bands of interest any alarms received by operator will by human nature be given a higher priority. That means as I previously stated, I just slam on my brakes when my Escort goes off. Since it has less alarms when I get one I don't need to investigate first since the probability that is really speed radar is higher.
b) I know that both the Valentine and Escort could be made even more sensitive but the number of false alarms for both sensor would be too high and therefore give you even more cases of alarms not being speed radar causing you to take even more time deciding if its real or not.
c) I even said that maybe the valentine is a little more sensitive but not having to consider whether it real or not on the way to work every morning is awesome.
2) Human/electronic interface. The equipment to be effective not only has to detect the signal it has to present the information in a form that is effective for human processing. "Behind matters, and the 9500 has JUST as many false alarms. " No, it doesn't unless your processor is saturated. In todays electronic spectrum with the narrow ranges that speed radar has to operate they are not processor limited.
a) THIS IS THE PART YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND FALSE ALARMS are a measurement of human/electronic interface. If the detector detects a radar signal and decides on its own that it is not a threat and it isn't displayed, the human is out of the equation therefore no false alarm.
b) So any alarms are treated with more urgency, it’s human nature. You know the old story The Boy that Cried Wolf (cop). The time for the human to process and react to a detected signal is effected by the percentage of times they process a signal and it's valid.
3) The escort actually not only records the GPS location but the signal type, characteristics and strength. If any of those parameters change the detector will alarm. That way if cop K-band shows up at the site where a K-band security system is the detector will alarm.
"The V1 in edit mode you can turn off the X band, K band, anything. You can program it however you want. Even better you can track waaaaay more signals on the V1. At one car meet that was getting busted up and I left, my V1 had 13 signals. False signal is no big deal, either turn off X band or watch your signal counter."
The escort doesn't have to(but you can) turn any of its detection channels off like you have to if you’re getting excesses number of detections. That’s the beauty of it. Multiple signals is not sequential detections but simultaneous detects! You car show story doesn't confirm what type they are. I have posted the escort capability to track signals. I spent quite a while reading the Valentines manual and searching the website. IT DOES NOT STATE THE CAPABILTIES/NUMBER OF TRACKING MULTIPLE SIGNALS. So where did you get your information?? I'm sure that it can track simultaneous signals it just post them but can it display them? Please post and quote!
PASSPORT’s ExpertMeter
simultaneously tracks up to 8 radar signals.
It provides detailed information on up to 2
Ka-band, 2 K-band, and 4 X-band signals.
Owner manual
CRAGER you are a moderator you shouldn't just put out information that isn't backed up by facts and make it sound like it is. People look up to you with all your time invested in the group. Please keep an open mind and just state your opinion or experiences (which you did with your upgrade policy and such). Your facts like the Valentines 2 antennas allow for directionality to be displayed which enables the driver to assess the threat faster(which means resolve false alarms more accurately and quicker). That’s a great fact to help someone make an informed decision.
I don't know but if the Valentine is more sensitive or not which if it is I have know problem because it is a great product it would be the better choice if the person was not driving the same repeative route everyday. The GPS system to reduce false alarms is only effective if you’re driving on the same route.
Ed
I'm going to send this post to Mike at Valentine, I belief he makes a great product and is honest and that will let him address the issues I have raised which are the one that made me choose the 9500 IX over the Valentine.
Again, the Escort recieves the same false alarms (maybe a little less) as the V1, you just have the option to block and you better pray you don't block a LEO as other 9500 owners have. As I will note there is always 1 "X" "K" or whatever and the next time if I see another signal on my counter I can proceed with caution. And you obviously have zero clue with the display on the V1 but there is a signal counter AND a band display that ALL can light up at one time or individually.
You can have your better filter (slightly), block it off with GPS while I can/and will know WHERE the source is AND sooner.
Just google the debate over these two units and you see it's a heated one. They are both great detectors, but funny how people with the Escort ZR3 laser jammers use the V1.
Let us know in a few years how the 10500 is and I'll look for your F/S thread in the classifieds sections for you 9500 while I'll just upgrade my V1 for the rest of my life.
~ Craig
P.S. - Congrats on your fan club!
06-14-2009, 01:02 PM
#29
Please get someone to Interpret Post Please I acknowledges the Valentines superior detection. How does that make me escort fan club member?
I pointed the true advantage of Dual Wave guides /2 antennas. Hardly a biased Escort statement.
It takes 3 identical signals on 3 different occasions and then still requires you to manual agree to block the signal. I can't imagine someone so inept that they would get the same characteristic signal 3 different times and not notice the cop and then push the button to block! Maybe you understand your limitations better than I do and you would arbitrarily block signal?
I actually think the false alarm filter (prevents the detector from reporting having false alarms) is more sophisticated but by combining the detections with location you can clear a route.
YOU STILL DON"T GET IT FALSE ALARMS ARE DETECTIONS THAT DON"T GET FILTERED AND REQUIRE OPERATOR CLASSIFICATION!
Thats a point that deserves consideration thats all I'm saying!
I never once put the Valentine down!
I just want all of the facts out there to be discussed. I fail to see how thats a bad attitude.
The only reason I'm getting frustrated is I make a point and quote facts but you want to ignore that and just make it like I'm some big escort fan? I never pushed that escorts as so great I was relating my real world experience with real world radar and sonar systems 20+ years worth. That GPS feature really helps the operator.
Please take the time and read what I wrote and point out the errors in my conclusions. I'm already on my way to Valentines website to check out the manual explaining the display, to educate myself. I did go page by page through their manual looking for the specs discussing max number of emitters capable of being cataloged at once. My mind is opinioned but not retrainable.
I see the bogey counter your referring to, nice, but the spec QUOTED was eight from the escort and the Valentine looks to have a single digit so Nine?
I'm just saying all facts are relevent in making an informed decision.
SORRY TO OFFEND
seriously
Ed
I pointed the true advantage of Dual Wave guides /2 antennas. Hardly a biased Escort statement.
It takes 3 identical signals on 3 different occasions and then still requires you to manual agree to block the signal. I can't imagine someone so inept that they would get the same characteristic signal 3 different times and not notice the cop and then push the button to block! Maybe you understand your limitations better than I do and you would arbitrarily block signal?
I actually think the false alarm filter (prevents the detector from reporting having false alarms) is more sophisticated but by combining the detections with location you can clear a route.
YOU STILL DON"T GET IT FALSE ALARMS ARE DETECTIONS THAT DON"T GET FILTERED AND REQUIRE OPERATOR CLASSIFICATION!
Thats a point that deserves consideration thats all I'm saying!
I never once put the Valentine down!
I just want all of the facts out there to be discussed. I fail to see how thats a bad attitude.
The only reason I'm getting frustrated is I make a point and quote facts but you want to ignore that and just make it like I'm some big escort fan? I never pushed that escorts as so great I was relating my real world experience with real world radar and sonar systems 20+ years worth. That GPS feature really helps the operator.
Please take the time and read what I wrote and point out the errors in my conclusions. I'm already on my way to Valentines website to check out the manual explaining the display, to educate myself. I did go page by page through their manual looking for the specs discussing max number of emitters capable of being cataloged at once. My mind is opinioned but not retrainable.
I see the bogey counter your referring to, nice, but the spec QUOTED was eight from the escort and the Valentine looks to have a single digit so Nine?
I'm just saying all facts are relevent in making an informed decision.
SORRY TO OFFEND
seriously
Ed
06-14-2009, 01:18 PM
#30
????? Before you just call me a dick you could at least be man enough to quote or explain what you found offensive? Was it that I made a case that radar to the rear of your vehicle isn't as important. Well at least I didn't just say that, I took the time to explain my point with example and facts. Silly me, I thought people if they disagrees with you that they would point out the errors in your conclusion with there own facts. I guess if they have nothing to add they just hurl insults.
by the way its your loss, I won't ignore what you post and since this nothing more than a knowledge exchange I will continue to benefit. I'm sure you won't lose much for I probably have nothing to add that you'll find useful.
P.S. Your not the first or last person to call me a dick or ignore me so I probably won't lose any sleep.
06-15-2009, 02:02 PM
#31
9 Second Club
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago
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Lots of folks ride with me and the V1 goes off. I say uh oh looks like someone is behind us moving up with radar. I slow down. Then after a good long time they catch up and drive past me. I can then see later that they exited the xway and are going off somewhwere even thought I never saw them leave. I now know I can kick it in the butt again and make some times up.
I like the arrows and I like knowing where it's coming from. Not knowing sucks.
I like the arrows and I like knowing where it's coming from. Not knowing sucks.
06-15-2009, 11:26 PM
#32
I just bought the 9500. I will be getting the V1 for my other ride so I can compare the two. The best feature of the 9500 is the speedtrap marking. It is incredible. It saved me twice already.
06-16-2009, 03:11 PM
#33
On The Tree
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Boise, ID
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Wow... pretty heated/length debate over radar detectors. Both of these products are fantastic and it would probably be impossible to get an "objective" view about them... anyone responding to this poll will have/prefer one over the other and it seems there is no way to score any points about anything on the internet anyways.
I have owned v1 detectors for about 7 years now and I love them. Never had any problems. I love the fact that it separates the signals into KA, K, X, Laser bands... living in Idaho and traveling around the west, Cops are always using the same bands. KA is always a cop, K is 90 percent a cop, Laser is about 50/50 in the city and 100% (****!!!!!!!!) in the country. X is always bullshit security systems, auto doors, ect....
However, I was in Colorado last winter and a cop hit me with X band radar.. that was a first.
Never owned a passport, sure they make good detectors, but I trust my v1.
The following quote applies to an individual in this thread:
"He can compress the most words into the smallest
idea of any man I know." - Abraham Lincoln
Nick
I have owned v1 detectors for about 7 years now and I love them. Never had any problems. I love the fact that it separates the signals into KA, K, X, Laser bands... living in Idaho and traveling around the west, Cops are always using the same bands. KA is always a cop, K is 90 percent a cop, Laser is about 50/50 in the city and 100% (****!!!!!!!!) in the country. X is always bullshit security systems, auto doors, ect....
However, I was in Colorado last winter and a cop hit me with X band radar.. that was a first.
Never owned a passport, sure they make good detectors, but I trust my v1.
The following quote applies to an individual in this thread:
"He can compress the most words into the smallest
idea of any man I know." - Abraham Lincoln
Nick
06-21-2009, 09:14 PM
#34
On The Tree
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I'm With BRD-PREY. Escort all the way. Take the DeLorean back to 1985, along with that brick you call a V1. Didn't they call it a V1 back in '85? Is it any different than when it first came out? Sure looks the same. I bet you guys still have the same cell phone they use in Night At The Roxbury!
Last edited by Blevinator; 06-21-2009 at 09:59 PM.
06-21-2009, 09:51 PM
#35
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Take this V1 die hards. Might want to lock this thread after reading this!! 
Click here for original article.
http://www.radartest.com/article_2.asp?articleid=100578
Looks like V1 is better at X band. This will give you advanced notice of a garage door opener. LOL!!!
Escort Passport 9500i vs. Valentine One
Which is the better-behaved traveling companion?
Craig Peterson
6/14/2008
Escort Passport 9500i vs. Valentine One. Can GPS really keep a radar detector quiet?
Scan the 'Net and three brands repeatedly surface as front-runners in the super-premium category: Beltronics (BEL), Escort and Valentine. Valentine loyalists typically tout the Valentine One's sensitivity (the range at which it can detect police radar) and its directional arrows, claimed to be able to indicate the direction of a radar signal.
Beltronics fans point out that at least one BEL model, the BEL STi Driver, conclusively proved in one of my past tests that it has better sensitivity than the V1 and quite a few more features. But the Beltronics STi Driver is a specialized piece intended for use in Virginia, the only state to ban detector use, plus Washington, D.C., and similar no-detector regions elsewhere.
And while Cobra has introduced their own GPS model, the XRS R9G, my recent test of that newcomer suggests that while its GPS works fine, it's a bit short on talent as a radar detector.
This leaves Escort as the logical competitor, appropriate since the Escort Passport 9500i appears to be aimed squarely at the Valentine One. Instead of directional arrows it offers a host of new features, not least of which is the application of advanced technology: GPS. Escort ads suggest modestly that using GPS to record and identify specific radar hotspots and red-light camera locations (not to mention display your car's speed) may revolutionize the state of the art in radar detectors. However, their biggest claim is the promise of extreme sensitivity but without the usual penalty of excessive false alarms. Perhaps; we'd have to see.
Looking for something else? Go directly to:
More of the latest radar detector reviews
Action Video: How Radar Works
Secrets to getting serious protection from your radar detector
Avoid future trips to jail: What you should know about police radar and lasers
The Escort Passport 9500i's competition, the Valentine One, better known as the V1, is base-priced at $399 plus shipping. Ordered with optional accessories to match some of the features standard on the $449 Escort 9500i, it cost $524 including shipping. (A red text display on the Escort Passport 9500i costs an extra $50. And value shoppers can look elsewhere; neither detector is sold at a discount.)
I've tested the V1 several times over the past two decades against the Escort Passport 8500 plus the BEL RX 65 and the BEL STi Driver models, all of which have proven capable of matching or exceeding the Valentine One's sensitivity on the two most critical bands, K and Ka. (We also used the V1 as a benchmark for a recent comparison test of two new $150 models, the Cobra XRS 9930 and Whistler Pro 78, one of which turned in sensational scores.) The trio of models from Beltronics (BEL) and Escort also proved less susceptible to false alarms, but that criterion wasn't evaluated. This time it would be, since Escort claims the Escort Passport 9500i is unequaled in its super-quiet, false alarm-free behavior.
For that reason I conducted three tests over a period of several months to answer one key question: Can the Escort Passport 9500i with its GPS resist false alarms better than the Valentine One, but without giving up any performance in the bargain?
Radar Field Tests
To find out I first ran both through the usual battery of tests at my test site outside Phoenix. This measured sensitivity. First stop was the Curve Test Site, a particularly difficult challenge. Here the radar vehicle is parked in mid-curve, its radar aimed uphill and at a 45-degree angle away from oncoming traffic. The police vehicle isn't visible until the moment the radar operator has already locked-in the speed of an approaching car, at about 650 feet. With nothing to deflect the radar beam toward the detectors' antennae, only extreme sensitivity can deliver enough warning distance.
Both detectors delivered upward of double the range of all of the sub-$250 radar detectors I've ever tested at this site.
Our next stop was the Straightaway test site, a no-brainer. It's a series of 3-mile-long and almost perfectly flat straightaways linked by plunging downhill S-curves at low-water crossings where it intersects the same river several times over the course of 10 miles. (Bridges are uncommon on secondary roads in the Southwest. Most rivers remain dry 51 weeks out of the year, leading road builders to run the pavement right through the stream beds. Wood posts marked in inches are thoughtfully provided as depth gauges.)
In past years only big-dollar radar detectors could sniff out all of our radars from the limit of this site, some 5.3 miles from the radar vehicle. That's changing, as seen in my recent tests of models in the $100 to $149 and $150 to $199 price classes.
As expected, neither the V1 nor the Escort Passport 9500i had any trouble spotting all four radars from the maximum distance.
Urban False Alarm Test
The third test scrutinized their resistance to fixed radar sources in the city. After two weeks of effort I finally settled on an 87.4-mile-long route in metro Phoenix. It included 35.1 miles of 6-lane urban freeway into and out of the city core, zoned at 55 mph or 65 mph depending upon the location. Two more segments totaling 52.3 miles were comprised of city streets in Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe and Mesa, Arizona, zoned variously from 30 mph to 45 mph.
We circled this loop three times before beginning the test. On lap one we drove with the Valentine One powered up and placed in logic mode, Valentine-speak for city mode and designed to minimize falses. Each time the unit sounded an alert, the exact location was recorded along with the frequency (or frequencies, as this unit often alerts simultaneously to X and K band in town, despite there being only one signal present). We also noted the number of "bogeys" or total number of radar sources the V1 displayed at each location.
Next we repeated the circuit with the Escort 9500i set to Auto mode. I could have shut off X band, one of its several user preferences or set it to City NoX, which dials back sensitivity while also disabling X band. Either would have given the Escort a major advantage. But since the Valentine One has no similar user preferences, to be fair, both units were run in their factory-default settings.
I made two laps with the Escort. On the first one I executed the identical routine as with the V1, recording the same details of each false alarm. Here the 9500i's Spec Display feature was invaluable in identifying the precise frequency of each alert. On the second lap I marked each location with the brief, three-tap sequence of button-pressing, to store it in memory. If Escort's claim of super-quiet operation was to be believed, it would ignore these radar sources on future laps of the route.
The next day was also a weekday. Using the same vehicle and personnel and starting at the same time, we made a fourth circuit, this with the Valentine One, and recorded its false alarms. The number and frequency of the sources were identical to those encountered the previous day—nearly all of them door openers—with the exception of one additional alert, triggered by a radar detector in a passing car while en route into town on the freeway.
Next up was the Passport 9500i, its settings unchanged. After completing an identical circuit, we had a direct comparison of their behavior in town. The scores were Valentine One: 51 total falses and 81 bogeys, Escort 9500i: 0 falses, 0 bogeys.
In the past 20 years there's been only one radar detector I've tested that was quieter in town than the Escort Passport 9500i. And that one turned out to be dead on all three bands.
Valentine uses the term "bogey to denote a single radar source. In theory, two sources would equal two bogeys. But in town, the V1's two antennas frequently disagree about the total, sometimes displaying 8 or 9 bogeys in reaction to a single source. That's because the V1's front and rear antennas often receive the same signal as it reflects from buildings, signs and other vehicles. Each antenna tries to calculate signal strength and direction. But since signal strength changes rapidly in reaction to moving, reflective objects, namely the surrounding traffic, the directional arrows often go nuts. At some intersections the V1 displayed 6, 7 and occasionally more bogeys, all because the signal was ricocheting among buildings and vehicles.
They bogey counter proved more accurate on the open road but in town, it can be annoying. Unfortunately, this feature can't be shut off.
Cross-Country Freeway False
The last test examined the two detectors' behavior on a freeway blast from Phoenix to Little Rock, Arkansas, all of it on major freeways. I never operate two radar detectors in a vehicle at the same time since generally they interfere with one another. But for a side-by-side comparison, on this trip it would be necessary. Frankly, I doubted it was possible. Fortunately, a cooperative microwave engineer agreed to run an instrumented test of the two inside an anechoic chamber, checking for interference. Surprisingly, it revealed that each is so well shielded that neither reacted to the other's local oscillator. I was in luck.
Click here for original article.http://www.radartest.com/article_2.asp?articleid=100578
Looks like V1 is better at X band. This will give you advanced notice of a garage door opener. LOL!!!
Escort Passport 9500i vs. Valentine One
Which is the better-behaved traveling companion?
Craig Peterson
6/14/2008
Escort Passport 9500i vs. Valentine One. Can GPS really keep a radar detector quiet?
Scan the 'Net and three brands repeatedly surface as front-runners in the super-premium category: Beltronics (BEL), Escort and Valentine. Valentine loyalists typically tout the Valentine One's sensitivity (the range at which it can detect police radar) and its directional arrows, claimed to be able to indicate the direction of a radar signal.
Beltronics fans point out that at least one BEL model, the BEL STi Driver, conclusively proved in one of my past tests that it has better sensitivity than the V1 and quite a few more features. But the Beltronics STi Driver is a specialized piece intended for use in Virginia, the only state to ban detector use, plus Washington, D.C., and similar no-detector regions elsewhere.
And while Cobra has introduced their own GPS model, the XRS R9G, my recent test of that newcomer suggests that while its GPS works fine, it's a bit short on talent as a radar detector.
This leaves Escort as the logical competitor, appropriate since the Escort Passport 9500i appears to be aimed squarely at the Valentine One. Instead of directional arrows it offers a host of new features, not least of which is the application of advanced technology: GPS. Escort ads suggest modestly that using GPS to record and identify specific radar hotspots and red-light camera locations (not to mention display your car's speed) may revolutionize the state of the art in radar detectors. However, their biggest claim is the promise of extreme sensitivity but without the usual penalty of excessive false alarms. Perhaps; we'd have to see.
Looking for something else? Go directly to:
More of the latest radar detector reviews
Action Video: How Radar Works
Secrets to getting serious protection from your radar detector
Avoid future trips to jail: What you should know about police radar and lasers
The Escort Passport 9500i's competition, the Valentine One, better known as the V1, is base-priced at $399 plus shipping. Ordered with optional accessories to match some of the features standard on the $449 Escort 9500i, it cost $524 including shipping. (A red text display on the Escort Passport 9500i costs an extra $50. And value shoppers can look elsewhere; neither detector is sold at a discount.)
I've tested the V1 several times over the past two decades against the Escort Passport 8500 plus the BEL RX 65 and the BEL STi Driver models, all of which have proven capable of matching or exceeding the Valentine One's sensitivity on the two most critical bands, K and Ka. (We also used the V1 as a benchmark for a recent comparison test of two new $150 models, the Cobra XRS 9930 and Whistler Pro 78, one of which turned in sensational scores.) The trio of models from Beltronics (BEL) and Escort also proved less susceptible to false alarms, but that criterion wasn't evaluated. This time it would be, since Escort claims the Escort Passport 9500i is unequaled in its super-quiet, false alarm-free behavior.
For that reason I conducted three tests over a period of several months to answer one key question: Can the Escort Passport 9500i with its GPS resist false alarms better than the Valentine One, but without giving up any performance in the bargain?
Radar Field Tests
To find out I first ran both through the usual battery of tests at my test site outside Phoenix. This measured sensitivity. First stop was the Curve Test Site, a particularly difficult challenge. Here the radar vehicle is parked in mid-curve, its radar aimed uphill and at a 45-degree angle away from oncoming traffic. The police vehicle isn't visible until the moment the radar operator has already locked-in the speed of an approaching car, at about 650 feet. With nothing to deflect the radar beam toward the detectors' antennae, only extreme sensitivity can deliver enough warning distance.
Both detectors delivered upward of double the range of all of the sub-$250 radar detectors I've ever tested at this site.
Our next stop was the Straightaway test site, a no-brainer. It's a series of 3-mile-long and almost perfectly flat straightaways linked by plunging downhill S-curves at low-water crossings where it intersects the same river several times over the course of 10 miles. (Bridges are uncommon on secondary roads in the Southwest. Most rivers remain dry 51 weeks out of the year, leading road builders to run the pavement right through the stream beds. Wood posts marked in inches are thoughtfully provided as depth gauges.)
In past years only big-dollar radar detectors could sniff out all of our radars from the limit of this site, some 5.3 miles from the radar vehicle. That's changing, as seen in my recent tests of models in the $100 to $149 and $150 to $199 price classes.
As expected, neither the V1 nor the Escort Passport 9500i had any trouble spotting all four radars from the maximum distance.
Urban False Alarm Test
The third test scrutinized their resistance to fixed radar sources in the city. After two weeks of effort I finally settled on an 87.4-mile-long route in metro Phoenix. It included 35.1 miles of 6-lane urban freeway into and out of the city core, zoned at 55 mph or 65 mph depending upon the location. Two more segments totaling 52.3 miles were comprised of city streets in Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe and Mesa, Arizona, zoned variously from 30 mph to 45 mph.
We circled this loop three times before beginning the test. On lap one we drove with the Valentine One powered up and placed in logic mode, Valentine-speak for city mode and designed to minimize falses. Each time the unit sounded an alert, the exact location was recorded along with the frequency (or frequencies, as this unit often alerts simultaneously to X and K band in town, despite there being only one signal present). We also noted the number of "bogeys" or total number of radar sources the V1 displayed at each location.
Next we repeated the circuit with the Escort 9500i set to Auto mode. I could have shut off X band, one of its several user preferences or set it to City NoX, which dials back sensitivity while also disabling X band. Either would have given the Escort a major advantage. But since the Valentine One has no similar user preferences, to be fair, both units were run in their factory-default settings.
I made two laps with the Escort. On the first one I executed the identical routine as with the V1, recording the same details of each false alarm. Here the 9500i's Spec Display feature was invaluable in identifying the precise frequency of each alert. On the second lap I marked each location with the brief, three-tap sequence of button-pressing, to store it in memory. If Escort's claim of super-quiet operation was to be believed, it would ignore these radar sources on future laps of the route.
The next day was also a weekday. Using the same vehicle and personnel and starting at the same time, we made a fourth circuit, this with the Valentine One, and recorded its false alarms. The number and frequency of the sources were identical to those encountered the previous day—nearly all of them door openers—with the exception of one additional alert, triggered by a radar detector in a passing car while en route into town on the freeway.
Next up was the Passport 9500i, its settings unchanged. After completing an identical circuit, we had a direct comparison of their behavior in town. The scores were Valentine One: 51 total falses and 81 bogeys, Escort 9500i: 0 falses, 0 bogeys.
In the past 20 years there's been only one radar detector I've tested that was quieter in town than the Escort Passport 9500i. And that one turned out to be dead on all three bands.
Valentine uses the term "bogey to denote a single radar source. In theory, two sources would equal two bogeys. But in town, the V1's two antennas frequently disagree about the total, sometimes displaying 8 or 9 bogeys in reaction to a single source. That's because the V1's front and rear antennas often receive the same signal as it reflects from buildings, signs and other vehicles. Each antenna tries to calculate signal strength and direction. But since signal strength changes rapidly in reaction to moving, reflective objects, namely the surrounding traffic, the directional arrows often go nuts. At some intersections the V1 displayed 6, 7 and occasionally more bogeys, all because the signal was ricocheting among buildings and vehicles.
They bogey counter proved more accurate on the open road but in town, it can be annoying. Unfortunately, this feature can't be shut off.
Cross-Country Freeway False
The last test examined the two detectors' behavior on a freeway blast from Phoenix to Little Rock, Arkansas, all of it on major freeways. I never operate two radar detectors in a vehicle at the same time since generally they interfere with one another. But for a side-by-side comparison, on this trip it would be necessary. Frankly, I doubted it was possible. Fortunately, a cooperative microwave engineer agreed to run an instrumented test of the two inside an anechoic chamber, checking for interference. Surprisingly, it revealed that each is so well shielded that neither reacted to the other's local oscillator. I was in luck.
06-21-2009, 09:52 PM
#36
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Buoyed by this news, I mounted the Valentine One in mid-windshield, the optimal position if its directional arrows are to work correctly. The Escort was windshield-mounted near the left A-pillar. The Escort 9500i was set to highway mode, GPS enabled, and the V1 to all-bogey mode. A 100-mile test hop confirmed that there was no evidence of cross-talk between the two. Early the following morning I was rolling eastward on I-10.
Over the next two days I encountered no fewer than 21 police radars: 10 K-band and 11 Ka-band, plus two lasers. There were some very close calls but generally both detectors gave plenty of warning, even against the ubiquitous instant-on radar.
The two exhibited very different behavior, however. In unfiltered highway mode (called All Bogey mode), the Valentine One is designed to report every signal without thoroughly scrutinizing it first to weed out non-police radar sources. As a result, during the trip it alerted to 68 X-band automatic door openers at stores adjacent to the freeway, 26 K-band openers and 17 Ka-band sources, all but two of the latter being radar detectors in other cars.
How can a Ka-band signal from a police radar gun be weeded-out from that of a nearby radar detector? Easy. With the Escort 9500i set to Spec Display mode, the exact frequency of each signal was displayed. Knowing on which segments of Ka band police radar are to found, real police radar can be readily identified. All of the rest can be safely ignored. To those who prefer not to flat-spot their tires by constant panic-braking, this is a huge advantage.
The total of 111 false alarms meant enduring one of them, on average, every 9.5 minutes over the two-day trip. Aside from the annoyance factor from the frequent false alarms, eventually they led me to doubt the V1's truthfulness.
The biggest consumer complaint about radar detectors is excessive false alarms. Valentine diehards say they're untroubled by these. But I have a different requirement of a radar detector: Just tell me when I'm around police radar and keep quiet the rest of the time.
In contrast to the Valentine One, the Escort Passport 9500i alerted to five X-band door openers, three K-band openers and one Ka-band spurious signal, probably a radar detector in a passing car, for a total of 9 falses. On every other occasion when the Escort barked an alert, it was warning of police radar, not automatic door openers or other radar detectors. Those 102 additional false alarms from the Valentine One can make it a rather tedious traveling companion for those who place a high value on a detector's ability to remain silent.
The ultra-quiet operation of the Escort Passport 9500i, coupled with its exemplary performance and unprecedented level of sophistication, has clearly raised the bar another notch in high-performance radar-detection technology.
Escortradar.com
Valentine1.com
Author's note: A respected source for all major brands of radar detectors is BuyRadarDetectors.com, folks I've found over the years to be utterly reliable and very price-competitive. Better yet, these guys have an encyclopedic knowledge of radar detectors, something too rarely seen on the Internet.
Over the next two days I encountered no fewer than 21 police radars: 10 K-band and 11 Ka-band, plus two lasers. There were some very close calls but generally both detectors gave plenty of warning, even against the ubiquitous instant-on radar.
The two exhibited very different behavior, however. In unfiltered highway mode (called All Bogey mode), the Valentine One is designed to report every signal without thoroughly scrutinizing it first to weed out non-police radar sources. As a result, during the trip it alerted to 68 X-band automatic door openers at stores adjacent to the freeway, 26 K-band openers and 17 Ka-band sources, all but two of the latter being radar detectors in other cars.
How can a Ka-band signal from a police radar gun be weeded-out from that of a nearby radar detector? Easy. With the Escort 9500i set to Spec Display mode, the exact frequency of each signal was displayed. Knowing on which segments of Ka band police radar are to found, real police radar can be readily identified. All of the rest can be safely ignored. To those who prefer not to flat-spot their tires by constant panic-braking, this is a huge advantage.
The total of 111 false alarms meant enduring one of them, on average, every 9.5 minutes over the two-day trip. Aside from the annoyance factor from the frequent false alarms, eventually they led me to doubt the V1's truthfulness.
The biggest consumer complaint about radar detectors is excessive false alarms. Valentine diehards say they're untroubled by these. But I have a different requirement of a radar detector: Just tell me when I'm around police radar and keep quiet the rest of the time.
In contrast to the Valentine One, the Escort Passport 9500i alerted to five X-band door openers, three K-band openers and one Ka-band spurious signal, probably a radar detector in a passing car, for a total of 9 falses. On every other occasion when the Escort barked an alert, it was warning of police radar, not automatic door openers or other radar detectors. Those 102 additional false alarms from the Valentine One can make it a rather tedious traveling companion for those who place a high value on a detector's ability to remain silent.
The ultra-quiet operation of the Escort Passport 9500i, coupled with its exemplary performance and unprecedented level of sophistication, has clearly raised the bar another notch in high-performance radar-detection technology.
Escortradar.com
Valentine1.com
Author's note: A respected source for all major brands of radar detectors is BuyRadarDetectors.com, folks I've found over the years to be utterly reliable and very price-competitive. Better yet, these guys have an encyclopedic knowledge of radar detectors, something too rarely seen on the Internet.
06-21-2009, 10:06 PM
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Maybe the folks at Escort paid this guy off by giving him a free radar detector.
Maybe in his twenty tyears of experience, he forgot how to test radar equipment objectively.
Or better yet, he may have created this review, just so I could find it and post it on Ls1 Tech?
Maybe in his twenty tyears of experience, he forgot how to test radar equipment objectively.
Or better yet, he may have created this review, just so I could find it and post it on Ls1 Tech?
06-21-2009, 11:03 PM
#38
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So it sounds like from the review that the V1 and the 9500 pick up the signals at the maximum distance of over 5 miles.
However the V1 gives false alarms due to it not having GPS and (due to it's dual antenna) getting bounces to the other antenna thus potentially doubling the false alarms in some cases.
The 9500 cannot tell you where the signal source is comeing from due to having a single antenna. But it does not give you any false alarms in testing.
I'm ok with that. But yes I'm a V1 person and I can tell you that I'm not bothered by any crazy false alarms. I am bothered by not knowing where the hell the signal is coming from. So yes give me the dual antenna. It works because I've used it to find the location of the source.
So what does it boil down to? It's up to the individual on what they feel is important. Clearly if even a few false alarms bother the hell out of you I'd get the 9500 for sure. If not knowing the direction of the radar bothers you more then get the V1. From reading a load of reviews they're both 2 of the best detectors out there.
Honestly if the 9500 series had dual antennas and gave me direction I'd pick that one. I'm an IT guy and I love all the buttons and options to play with.
If a new band comes out I like the fact that the 9500 is a download away from getting it for free. For me with the V1 I have to send it in and they give me all new hardware inside the case if they have to but it costs me about $150.00 to do it.
However the V1 gives false alarms due to it not having GPS and (due to it's dual antenna) getting bounces to the other antenna thus potentially doubling the false alarms in some cases.
The 9500 cannot tell you where the signal source is comeing from due to having a single antenna. But it does not give you any false alarms in testing.
I'm ok with that. But yes I'm a V1 person and I can tell you that I'm not bothered by any crazy false alarms. I am bothered by not knowing where the hell the signal is coming from. So yes give me the dual antenna. It works because I've used it to find the location of the source.
So what does it boil down to? It's up to the individual on what they feel is important. Clearly if even a few false alarms bother the hell out of you I'd get the 9500 for sure. If not knowing the direction of the radar bothers you more then get the V1. From reading a load of reviews they're both 2 of the best detectors out there.
Honestly if the 9500 series had dual antennas and gave me direction I'd pick that one. I'm an IT guy and I love all the buttons and options to play with.
If a new band comes out I like the fact that the 9500 is a download away from getting it for free. For me with the V1 I have to send it in and they give me all new hardware inside the case if they have to but it costs me about $150.00 to do it.
06-21-2009, 11:16 PM
#39
Man...I can't even wade through the **** that's piling up in here.
The problem I see with this is trying to find people that have had both for the same amount of time...I've only had a Valentine One, so I can't even begin to tell you the differences in performance between those two models. Both get good reviews, so I don't think it really matters all that much.
As for those of you who don't think the police still use X-band radars, think again...I came across one here in Ohio about 2 years ago that turned out to be a cop coming up on me on the interstate.
The problem I see with this is trying to find people that have had both for the same amount of time...I've only had a Valentine One, so I can't even begin to tell you the differences in performance between those two models. Both get good reviews, so I don't think it really matters all that much.
As for those of you who don't think the police still use X-band radars, think again...I came across one here in Ohio about 2 years ago that turned out to be a cop coming up on me on the interstate.
06-22-2009, 01:38 PM
#40
Bottom line its your buck, spend it how you want. This place should be for exchanging knowledge and experience. Not personal feelings. The reason I come here is to read what people have to say and get in a good debate about the facts. Facts not feelings. I really am only brand loyal one one item! GM . The rest of my decisions come from researching the facts and making informed decisions.
P.S. Mike Valentine never responded to my email, make whatever conclusions from that you want.
Ed
P.S. Mike Valentine never responded to my email, make whatever conclusions from that you want.
Ed