tuffluck

iTrader: (4)

...does the radio bass sound better in a stock system than a cd's bass does on the same system?

i have never understood this, but when a cd is in the cd player, i have to turn the bass down past halfway (about 1/4 up, maybe 3/8) or else i get a "i'm a sucky and broken amp" thump that annoys the hell out of me, and sounds bad. but when the radio is on, it seems the bass multiplies by three. the quality of radio sucks ***, but the amount of bass it puts out is AMAZING compared to that of a cd. and we aren't talking mp3 cd's here - we are talking about high quality, bought-at-the-store cd's.

for instance, i have a chevelle cd. number 4 is called closure, and that song happens to be on the radio right now here locally. my cd has an amazing quality of this song when i play it, but the bass **** is set less than a quarter, or else the subs start making that annoying as hell thump. on the radio, i turned the bass up to 3/4's, and the bass notes were ringing in my ears. i thought for a moment that someone snuck into my car, installed an amp and sub, and then ran off!

does this happen to anyone else? why does it happen? it makes no sense that bass, on the SAME song even, can sound fantastic in one form of signal (radio), and pretty pathetic on another form of signal (cd). you would think at least those forms would switch! or you would think that when you turned the bass up on the pathetic form, you would get more bass instead of the damned "i'm dying" thump; after all, you are quite aware from listening to the radio version of the song that the damned bass CAN reach that potential. what the hell? anyone know why this happens, or a means to fix it?

VIP1

Radio(FM) is a lower quality signal than a CD. It is "lossy" in that some of the frequencies are lost (namely the highs and lows). The signal is also amplified and distorted when compared to the original (which is typically a CD). I don't know that you are talking about, when you refer to the worse bass from a CD though. CD's in my car sound great with great bass. Although, I have a Firebird which has a better stock system than your Camaro. I am not trying to be rude, its just true.

--VIP1

tuffluck

iTrader: (4)

you aren't being rude, rather, you are being incorrect. the stock systems in both cars *lately* are 500 watt systems, the only difference worth noting being in the number of speakers between the two models. the camaro chose to have a speaker with a tweeter/mid combination, whereas the firebird chose to have two different speakers - a midbass, and a tweeter. maybe they did that for better placement of the speakers (??) or maybe they just did that to be pontiac.

regardless, my setup is not stock. my front door speakers are alpine 6.75" speakers that are the biggest improvement over stock speakers while retaining the stock amp that i have ever seen.

the subs in the sail panels can only take so much bass. that bass is at a lower level when i play a cd, and at a higher level when i play the radio. the quality of the radio, like i already stated, sucks compared to that of a cd; but the bass is increduously heavier.

i've now owned 2 camaro's and they were both like this. a friend of mine has a firebird, and his cd's and radio's bass amounts sound the same - OK. they sounded about like my cd's do. but the thing is - his firebird (and i'm assuming your's also) put out an equivalent amount of bass in each situation; my car (and my previous car) does not at all, and it's quite noticeable. when listening to the radio, my car puts out bass amounts that put the firebird system (that i've heard - also 500 watt) to shame, and i have proven that. no offense, but it's just true.

i'm sure some cars have this problem, firebird or camaro, and some do not. but the majority of cars i have seen with this problem have been camaro's, and i've never, to this day, seen a firebird that does this.

SidewayzOZ

iTrader: (11)

Quite strange I would say...I never noticed that in my system before I changed out, and I havent noticed that to be the case in either of my buddies' camaros either.

Pubert

in short, music that's played on the radio is manipulated to be bass-and-trebel-heavy, and it's compressed to sound louder.

when it's done that way, radio music becomes "bling", appealing to the masses who generally disregard proper sound quality, instead favoring an anthem along the lines of, "Oh, HYPE, listening to the radio is rockin' awesome and totally fantabulous, even on these stock Chevy Cavalier paper-cone drivers!"

corporate america loves neither you nor hi-fi integrity.

VIP1

The headunit in the Firebird is a better unit with a 7-band EQ built in. The speakers are also higher quality. Notice how many Camaro owners blow their speakers and how few Firebird owners have any such issues?

--VIP1

tuffluck

iTrader: (4)

personally, i've toyed with the EQ in a firebird before, and stock for stock, the sound is no better. and i have aftermarket speakers also.

VIP1

Aftermarket speakers are 4ohm whereas the stock monsoon speakers are 2ohm. In theory the system should now be the equivalent of a 250watt system instead of a 500watt system. I am speaking about overall output and not specifics. I'm not an expert in this, but that is my understanding. Besides, comparing stock to aftermarket is like comparing apples to oranges.

--VIP1

Rogue Leader

Well Dont forget the Monsoon is rated at 500 Watt max power.... who knows how low continuous power is. Basically youre right, 1/2 the resistance 1/2 the power. Hes right though the radio is basically the same, mainly because it uses the same amp in the car, the Firebird is just a bit more adjustable.

Finally, Pubert's answer is the most right here, being that Radio sounds like sh*t they bring up the bass and treble to make it sound decent on anything you play it on, a lot of radios barely have bass and treble contol...

VIP1

Yeah I know. From most of what I have seen RMS is about half (or less) than peak/max. Although I have seem some specs where RMS was 1/4 of peak/max. Now that is crappy.

Shouldn't that be 2x the resistance, 1/2 the power.
and
1/2 the resistance, double the power.
(in theory anyway)

--VIP1

SidewayzOZ

iTrader: (11)

If you mean voltage when you say power then Rogue Leader was correct...

Ohms law: v = ir
therefore, voltage must be directly proportional to resistance if current stays the same.

Rougly trying to get back to the post at hand...I realize radio quality is trash and the bass and treble is overstimulated, but dont you guys think it is strange that the difference in levels would be as dramatic as he says for different sources? I understand that the radio will make it a bit distorted, but it doesnt seem right that it would cause what he described.

LS1Baron

Actually, you get the best sound from impedance matching. a 2 ohm speaker will sound worse, and have less power, on a 4 ohm output than a 4 ohm speaker on the same output. That's why most amps have a variable 2 to 8 ohm impedance rating.

An aftermarket head with 4 ohm output impedance will make stock speakers sound horribly. Aftermarket speakers with the stock Monsoon head will give you the same result. Replace both at once, and the problems go away.

VIP1

Sorry to continue the side track, but I am talking about Wattage and not Voltage.
You are correct about the voltage though.

OHM's Law: V = I x R (V = voltage, I = current (amps), R = resistance)
Solve for I: I = V/R
(I can't remember the formula for wattage)

--VIP1

Rogue Leader

yeah, I wrote it wrong... 2 ohm output , double the resistance, you get 1/2 the power.

SidewayzOZ

iTrader: (11)

P = VI

LS1Baron

Remember what I said about impedance matching, though. Wire two sets of 4 ohm speakers in parallel, and you'll get better sound quality.

VIP1

P = wattage, right?
V = Voltage
I = Current

--VIP1

SidewayzOZ

iTrader: (11)

Correct

Rogue Leader

Thanks for pointing out the obvious

Problem is, in doing that : where will you put an additional speaker? or you can just cut the rear hatch speakers and wire them in parallel to the front... thats a whole lotta work and I really doubt it will sound much better to be worth it. Youre not dealing with high end equipment here, this is just a smile rplacement setup and it works.

The front and rear channels have a 120 hz filter so they cut the bass frequencies, and the middle channels handle that and lower.

LS1Baron

Not quite as obvious as you seem. Two 3" 4 ohm speakers, wired in parallel, will sound better and more powerful than a single 6 3.4" 4 ohm speaker. It will handle more power, and give a cleaner sound. Speakers are simply inductors. Unless the windings (impedance or resistance) match, what you wind up with is a step-down transformer. The 4 ohm speaker on a 2 ohm impedance output will get half the voltage and twice the current. So, you wind up with crappy sound, and a speaker that has a tendency to blow.

Just to check, I took a stock door speaker from a '99 Z28, and a stock door speaker from a friend's '99 TA. The TA speaker was a true 2 ohm speaker. The Z speaker was a 3.4 ohm speaker. This was tested with a Fluke DMM. That's probably why we Camaro owners have such a problem with our speakers.