Power Window... Tried it all?
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 22
Likes: 1
From: Daytona Beach, FL
Power Window... Tried it all? I have replaced the window motor and the BCM in my car and the passenger side window still intermittently becomes unresponsive. Is there a relay somewhere, or something else that could be causing the window to stop working?
Also, I recently bypassed the VATS system and no longer have to use a chip key. As mentioned above, I replaced the BCM (months after doing the bypass). But the "Security" light still comes on and the car doesn't start sometimes. Why??? Any help is greatly appreciated!
Also, I recently bypassed the VATS system and no longer have to use a chip key. As mentioned above, I replaced the BCM (months after doing the bypass). But the "Security" light still comes on and the car doesn't start sometimes. Why??? Any help is greatly appreciated!
Have you tried the thermal mod? What about the wiring/relay fix? From what I gather, the pass side window wiring is actually run through the driver's side switch. Maybe it's a connection problem there.
Here's some schematics for ya.
http://cs.chevroletclub.net/graphics...g.diagrams.pdf
Here's some schematics for ya.
http://cs.chevroletclub.net/graphics...g.diagrams.pdf
Because even the new window motors have the thermal resistor. Mine had it and I got rid of it.
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/gene...better-443785/
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/gene...better-443785/
The thermal cutoff is there for a reason and the engineers who put it there weren't fools. Doing the thermal mod to the motor increases the stress on the door and the chances of things like this happening: https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...-included.html
In the end, the thermal mod is a cheap approach to an already inexpensive problem with very high risks. IMO - Paying for a new lifetime warranty Dorman motor is a lot better than risking having to replace the door skin or add a plate to the door.
+1 on the ridiculousness of doing this to a new motor.
In the end, the thermal mod is a cheap approach to an already inexpensive problem with very high risks. IMO - Paying for a new lifetime warranty Dorman motor is a lot better than risking having to replace the door skin or add a plate to the door.
+1 on the ridiculousness of doing this to a new motor.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 22
Likes: 1
From: Daytona Beach, FL
Okay. I'll just get the wiring kit and give the window a direct power source. It's inexpensive enough and I've heard too many warnings about the thermal mod.
However, I know "heat" has been a culprit because the window has never worked after that side has been sitting in the sun. (With the old motor and the new one.) The old motor at least always came back on after the car sat overnight in the garage. The new motor is stubbornly unresponsive, now two days later. Really, I've used it about 10 times and never roll the window down more than a few inches, plus I got the BCM primarily to fix this, so I'm really frustrated with the whole thing.
Will the new wiring make this problem go away?
As for the security light... Is the system getting screwed up between the BCM and PCM? I'm eventually going to turn it completely off when I've got the equipment.
However, I know "heat" has been a culprit because the window has never worked after that side has been sitting in the sun. (With the old motor and the new one.) The old motor at least always came back on after the car sat overnight in the garage. The new motor is stubbornly unresponsive, now two days later. Really, I've used it about 10 times and never roll the window down more than a few inches, plus I got the BCM primarily to fix this, so I'm really frustrated with the whole thing.
Will the new wiring make this problem go away?
As for the security light... Is the system getting screwed up between the BCM and PCM? I'm eventually going to turn it completely off when I've got the equipment.
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The thermal cutoff is there for a reason and the engineers who put it there weren't fools. Doing the thermal mod to the motor increases the stress on the door and the chances of things like this happening: https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...-included.html
In the end, the thermal mod is a cheap approach to an already inexpensive problem with very high risks. IMO - Paying for a new lifetime warranty Dorman motor is a lot better than risking having to replace the door skin or add a plate to the door.
+1 on the ridiculousness of doing this to a new motor.
In the end, the thermal mod is a cheap approach to an already inexpensive problem with very high risks. IMO - Paying for a new lifetime warranty Dorman motor is a lot better than risking having to replace the door skin or add a plate to the door.
+1 on the ridiculousness of doing this to a new motor.
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Verdad Gallardo Yea, I think because people call it a "mod," we assume it must be a good thing. Whenever we take something away, there's almost always going to be some intended consequence. (This mod circumvents a safety feature of the motor, the drill mod circumvents a protective measure on the clutch M/C, etc.)
For the thermal mod, the big issue arises when a user holds the button down. This allows the motor to put prolonged stress on the motor/door. We can always manually control this by lifting up on the button, except when the express down feature is engaged. Deactivating the thermal resistor probably isn't such a big deal if one also bypasses the express down feature, so the motor reverts back to full manual control.
For the thermal mod, the big issue arises when a user holds the button down. This allows the motor to put prolonged stress on the motor/door. We can always manually control this by lifting up on the button, except when the express down feature is engaged. Deactivating the thermal resistor probably isn't such a big deal if one also bypasses the express down feature, so the motor reverts back to full manual control.
Okay. I'll just get the wiring kit and give the window a direct power source. It's inexpensive enough and I've heard too many warnings about the thermal mod.
However, I know "heat" has been a culprit because the window has never worked after that side has been sitting in the sun. (With the old motor and the new one.) The old motor at least always came back on after the car sat overnight in the garage. The new motor is stubbornly unresponsive, now two days later. Really, I've used it about 10 times and never roll the window down more than a few inches, plus I got the BCM primarily to fix this, so I'm really frustrated with the whole thing.
Will the new wiring make this problem go away?
As for the security light... Is the system getting screwed up between the BCM and PCM? I'm eventually going to turn it completely off when I've got the equipment.
However, I know "heat" has been a culprit because the window has never worked after that side has been sitting in the sun. (With the old motor and the new one.) The old motor at least always came back on after the car sat overnight in the garage. The new motor is stubbornly unresponsive, now two days later. Really, I've used it about 10 times and never roll the window down more than a few inches, plus I got the BCM primarily to fix this, so I'm really frustrated with the whole thing.
Will the new wiring make this problem go away?
As for the security light... Is the system getting screwed up between the BCM and PCM? I'm eventually going to turn it completely off when I've got the equipment.
The wiring kit will not "fix" anything. It just buys you more time with a bad motor. (Giving a bad motor a few fractions of a volt seems to help a bad motor perform.) Purchasing 2 new Dorman motors (100% new, and updated design) will cost you less than the wiring kits. As long as you use the shbox install method, they can be easily switched if you have any issues in the future.
If one window works and the other doesn't, I wouldn't think it's a BCM issue. If both windows don't work at the same time, then you might look at the BCM. (You should still fix that problem, though...)
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,328
Likes: 345
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Getting to the VATS question... did you replace the BCM with a new one or a used one? If you got a used one, I'm surprised your car starts at all. A BCM can only be programmed once when new to match whatever key it first "sees". After that, the VATS circuit must always see that same resistance or the BCM will prevent the car from starting. If you had already done the bypass before replacing the BCM then a new BCM would see the bypass resistor and program itself to that but a used BCM would continue to look for the resistance it had been originally programmed for (only a 1 in 14 chance it would match your bypass).
You can not program VATS out with a tuner. The BCM prevents starting in two ways - it disables the fuel enable signal to the PCM and it doesn't provide a ground for the starter relay. The PCM can be programmed to ignore the lack of a fuel enable signal but the BCM can not be programmed at all so you can't make it restore the starter relay ground.
The likely cause of your security light problem is something wrong with your VATS bypass - a bad resistor or a loose connection. I suggest you redo the bypass.
You can not program VATS out with a tuner. The BCM prevents starting in two ways - it disables the fuel enable signal to the PCM and it doesn't provide a ground for the starter relay. The PCM can be programmed to ignore the lack of a fuel enable signal but the BCM can not be programmed at all so you can't make it restore the starter relay ground.
The likely cause of your security light problem is something wrong with your VATS bypass - a bad resistor or a loose connection. I suggest you redo the bypass.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 22
Likes: 1
From: Daytona Beach, FL
Yeah the one I installed is a brand new Dorman. Rivets were already drilled out when I replaced it. It will be easy to take out again. Since I don't have time to wait for the wiring kit to come in I'm going to have to try the thermal mod today... we get thunderstorms everyday in Florida right now and I have to be able to close the window! Since I never open it as far as halfway I shouldn't have any overheating problems. No express down on pass side. And if someone decides to stick an arm or head in my car... they're asking for trouble anyway.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 22
Likes: 1
From: Daytona Beach, FL
If I tune out the VATS, I can ground the starter relay manually, right? The BCM is brand new and is set to the bypass resistor - installed after the bypass was performed. I will check the connections.
Why is it that I want to blame the security issue on the stereo head unit? My car doesn't always start if the radio is off or if the driver door is open... Just curious about that theory.
Why is it that I want to blame the security issue on the stereo head unit? My car doesn't always start if the radio is off or if the driver door is open... Just curious about that theory.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,328
Likes: 345
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Yes, you could manually ground the starter relay and you could disconnect the security light wire.
Unlike many newer cars, the security system and the audio system in f-bodies are not connected in any way. However, the BCM controls the security system and it also (separately) controls the retained accessory power circuit so it's possible a bad BCM could be the source of both problems. In fact, the more you describe the problem, the more I suspect you have a bad BCM.
Unlike many newer cars, the security system and the audio system in f-bodies are not connected in any way. However, the BCM controls the security system and it also (separately) controls the retained accessory power circuit so it's possible a bad BCM could be the source of both problems. In fact, the more you describe the problem, the more I suspect you have a bad BCM.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 22
Likes: 1
From: Daytona Beach, FL
I just replaced the BCM with a brand new one though... all of the problems are exactly the same as before.
I did the thermal mod thing today and the window still doesn't do s**t. At least I got to push it up most of the way. It'll work until I get a new motor (since I figure I've probably screwed this one up) and I'll order the wiring from Autotrix.
I prefer manual windows. Where are the details for that mod...?
I did the thermal mod thing today and the window still doesn't do s**t. At least I got to push it up most of the way. It'll work until I get a new motor (since I figure I've probably screwed this one up) and I'll order the wiring from Autotrix.
I prefer manual windows. Where are the details for that mod...?
I just replaced the BCM with a brand new one though... all of the problems are exactly the same as before.
I did the thermal mod thing today and the window still doesn't do s**t. At least I got to push it up most of the way. It'll work until I get a new motor (since I figure I've probably screwed this one up) and I'll order the wiring from Autotrix.
I prefer manual windows. Where are the details for that mod...?
I did the thermal mod thing today and the window still doesn't do s**t. At least I got to push it up most of the way. It'll work until I get a new motor (since I figure I've probably screwed this one up) and I'll order the wiring from Autotrix.
I prefer manual windows. Where are the details for that mod...?
The window switches... are another point of failure. I wonder if the contacts on one of your switches is going bad? Maybe the heat is expanding bad contacts in a switch?
Have you tried both the switch on the driver's side and the passengers side? Does the window behave any differently when you use one vs. the other? (When you use one switch on the car for the passenger window, the electricity going to the motor flows through the other switch.)
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 22
Likes: 1
From: Daytona Beach, FL
Okay, so I plugged the new motor into the wiring, tested it, the wheel turned both ways with both switches, installed it in the door, the window wouldn't budge... so I loosened the bolts holding the thing in place and the window opens and closes excellent.
I recommend loosening all the bolts a bit/replacing the rivets and/or removing the bolt/rivet closest to the front of the car before replacing or re-wiring anything...
The tiny bolt closest to the door hinge was simply too tight on mine and evidently it was putting the motor in a bind. Problem solved.
I recommend loosening all the bolts a bit/replacing the rivets and/or removing the bolt/rivet closest to the front of the car before replacing or re-wiring anything...
The tiny bolt closest to the door hinge was simply too tight on mine and evidently it was putting the motor in a bind. Problem solved.
Okay, so I plugged the new motor into the wiring, tested it, the wheel turned both ways with both switches, installed it in the door, the window wouldn't budge... so I loosened the bolts holding the thing in place and the window opens and closes excellent.
I recommend loosening all the bolts a bit/replacing the rivets and/or removing the bolt/rivet closest to the front of the car before replacing or re-wiring anything...
The tiny bolt closest to the door hinge was simply too tight on mine and evidently it was putting the motor in a bind. Problem solved.
I recommend loosening all the bolts a bit/replacing the rivets and/or removing the bolt/rivet closest to the front of the car before replacing or re-wiring anything...
The tiny bolt closest to the door hinge was simply too tight on mine and evidently it was putting the motor in a bind. Problem solved.
Your description definitely sounds like binding, though. That bolt can't be the issue. The OEM rivets are just as tight as a bolt can be.