Electrical Issue?!
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,328
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Okay, since we know the interior flickering isn't related, can you go over the fog light and high beam symptoms again? The indicator light I understand since the high beam circuit is where the fog light relay coil goes to ground. But I'm unclear on the high beams themselves... they stay on after you turn them off until you toggle the fog lights?
your fog lamp issue sounds like normal operation, like when you turn on high beams the low beams go off.
my 2002 which is completely stock works like this
- headlight switch on all the way to right, regular low beams, fog switch is off.
- fog switch on/off turns fogs on/off.
- fog switch on, turn on high beams, both the low beam bulb and fog lights turn off.
- turn off high beams, both low beams and fogs come back on.
- with high beams on and fog switch on but fog lights not on, turn headlight switch to middle position for parking lights, high beams go off fog lights come back on. turn headlight switch right back to headlights, high beams come on fogs go off.
- blue high beam dash light is on whenever high beams are actually on.
my 2002 which is completely stock works like this
- headlight switch on all the way to right, regular low beams, fog switch is off.
- fog switch on/off turns fogs on/off.
- fog switch on, turn on high beams, both the low beam bulb and fog lights turn off.
- turn off high beams, both low beams and fogs come back on.
- with high beams on and fog switch on but fog lights not on, turn headlight switch to middle position for parking lights, high beams go off fog lights come back on. turn headlight switch right back to headlights, high beams come on fogs go off.
- blue high beam dash light is on whenever high beams are actually on.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,328
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Normal except that the high beams don't turn off with the switch unless he toggles the fog lights. And the high beam indicator goes on dimly with the fog lights.
The high beam indicator issue is almost certainly caused by current back feed from the fog light relay coil ground. The relay ground is connected to the high beam circuit in order to turn off the fog lights (by depriving the relay coil of ground) when the high beams are on.
I'm going over the schematics for the headlights and fog lights. I have yet to find a possible issue that would cover all of the symptoms. For example, if the smaller light green wire had become broken or disconnected from the high beam switch, it would explain the dim indicator but it doesn't explain the high beams staying on until you toggle the fog light switch.
I'll try to look at it more closely at lunch or this evening when I have more time.
The high beam indicator issue is almost certainly caused by current back feed from the fog light relay coil ground. The relay ground is connected to the high beam circuit in order to turn off the fog lights (by depriving the relay coil of ground) when the high beams are on.
I'm going over the schematics for the headlights and fog lights. I have yet to find a possible issue that would cover all of the symptoms. For example, if the smaller light green wire had become broken or disconnected from the high beam switch, it would explain the dim indicator but it doesn't explain the high beams staying on until you toggle the fog light switch.
I'll try to look at it more closely at lunch or this evening when I have more time.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,328
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
What modifications have been made to the headlights or fog lights? Have you installed HIDs or done the "fogs on with high beams" or "low beams on with high beams" mods?
In order to have the high beams stay on after switching back to low beam, there would have to be current back feeding from the fog light relay ground to the high beam circuit. That in itself is certainly possible and would cause the dimly illuminated high beam indicator light. But there should never be enough current flow to power the high beams. We're talking about an 18 gauge wire that is intended to handle only ground for the fog light relay and the ON light in the fog light switch. Now, with HIDs and a relay kit, there might be enough back flow current to trip the HID relay causing the high beams to stay on.
If you unplug the fog light switch but leave everything else connected, do the headlights and high beam indicator work properly? Doing that would eliminate any current back flow.
In order to have the high beams stay on after switching back to low beam, there would have to be current back feeding from the fog light relay ground to the high beam circuit. That in itself is certainly possible and would cause the dimly illuminated high beam indicator light. But there should never be enough current flow to power the high beams. We're talking about an 18 gauge wire that is intended to handle only ground for the fog light relay and the ON light in the fog light switch. Now, with HIDs and a relay kit, there might be enough back flow current to trip the HID relay causing the high beams to stay on.
If you unplug the fog light switch but leave everything else connected, do the headlights and high beam indicator work properly? Doing that would eliminate any current back flow.
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Verdad Gallardo Yes. Switch removed highs work fine no issue with the indicator either.
I have hid fog highs and lows. Relay harness on the high and lows. I unplugged the highs and lows from the OEM sockets to the relay harness and left them unplugged. Obviously the high beams don't light up but the indicator is dimly lit with the fogs on.
I have hid fog highs and lows. Relay harness on the high and lows. I unplugged the highs and lows from the OEM sockets to the relay harness and left them unplugged. Obviously the high beams don't light up but the indicator is dimly lit with the fogs on.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,328
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
HID fogs as well? Why on earth would anyone want HID fog lights? The whole point of fog lights is not power but beam shape and replacing halogen bulbs with HID capsules totally destroys the beam cutoff.
I'm sorry but without a schematic, I won't be able to assist with diagnostics. You've obviously got a problem with the way the HIDs are wired but I can't even begin to guess what it is.
You might try the "fogs on with high beams" mod because it provides an isolated ground to the fog light relay (instead of grounding through the high beam circuit) which might prevent the current back feed. But that's a workaround rather than a fix.
I'm sorry but without a schematic, I won't be able to assist with diagnostics. You've obviously got a problem with the way the HIDs are wired but I can't even begin to guess what it is.
You might try the "fogs on with high beams" mod because it provides an isolated ground to the fog light relay (instead of grounding through the high beam circuit) which might prevent the current back feed. But that's a workaround rather than a fix.
Sorry if I was unclear and I should of disclosed evening but I didn't originally think the hids had caused the issue as they were installed for a long time before the issue started.
As i stated a few posts back I removed all the hids bulbs ballasts and wiring and with everything disconnected the highbeam indicator is dimly lit while fogs are on. Obviously with nothing connected I cannot be sure but I would bet since this occurs my high beams would remain lit once activated until the fog is togged.
I converted all the forward lamps to HID so they would match.
As i stated a few posts back I removed all the hids bulbs ballasts and wiring and with everything disconnected the highbeam indicator is dimly lit while fogs are on. Obviously with nothing connected I cannot be sure but I would bet since this occurs my high beams would remain lit once activated until the fog is togged.
I converted all the forward lamps to HID so they would match.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,328
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Something is seriously wrong with the wiring. However, without being able to see it, all I can suggest is to cut the light green wire at the fog light relay, add enough wire to the relay end to reach a good ground, and insulate the other cut end to prevent shorting. This is basically the "fogs with high beams" mod but what it is doing is eliminating any possible back feed of current.