Electrical Issue?!
Electrical Issue?! OK got a weird one
98 Camaro
While the car is running and only when running, the dome and mirror lamps flicker. To add do this while not running, if I toggle the fog lamp switch on and off they flicker each time the switch is put on just ONCE.
Also when the fog lamps are on (with the car running or not running) my high beam indicator is lit on the dash board but very faintly, the high beams themselves however are NOT on. While leaving the fog lamps on, if I turn the high beams on, the dash indicator comes to full brightness, I shut toggle the high beams off the high beams REMAIN ON, until I toggle the fog lamp off.
I have swapped bcms problem still exists.
I unplugged the overhead mirror, high beam indicator still comes on with fog lamps.
I unplugged the dimmer switch portion of the headlamp switch, the fogs still triggered the high beam indicator, plugged back in and then unplugged the headlamp control and the overhead lamps still flickered so I believe the issue is NOT in the headlamp switch.
Unplugged fog lamp switch, the overhead lights still flicker.
Removed fog lamp relay, the over head lights still flicker.
Any ideas? Only thing I have left to consider I believe is something in the steering column but I dont see how that would have any effect on the overhead lights?
98 Camaro
While the car is running and only when running, the dome and mirror lamps flicker. To add do this while not running, if I toggle the fog lamp switch on and off they flicker each time the switch is put on just ONCE.
Also when the fog lamps are on (with the car running or not running) my high beam indicator is lit on the dash board but very faintly, the high beams themselves however are NOT on. While leaving the fog lamps on, if I turn the high beams on, the dash indicator comes to full brightness, I shut toggle the high beams off the high beams REMAIN ON, until I toggle the fog lamp off.
I have swapped bcms problem still exists.
I unplugged the overhead mirror, high beam indicator still comes on with fog lamps.
I unplugged the dimmer switch portion of the headlamp switch, the fogs still triggered the high beam indicator, plugged back in and then unplugged the headlamp control and the overhead lamps still flickered so I believe the issue is NOT in the headlamp switch.
Unplugged fog lamp switch, the overhead lights still flicker.
Removed fog lamp relay, the over head lights still flicker.
Any ideas? Only thing I have left to consider I believe is something in the steering column but I dont see how that would have any effect on the overhead lights?
Last edited by Camaro98Z/28; Mar 23, 2014 at 09:08 AM.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
First of all, you have two separate problems - the interior lights and the fog/headlights. The two circuits are not related in any way.
The fog light relay coil is grounded through the high beam circuit so that turning on the high beams turns off the fog lights by removing the ground for the relay coil. What appears to be happening in your case is that there is some problem in the high beam wiring that is causing the fog light relay to ground through the high beam indicator lamp rather than high beam lamps. Do you have other symptoms such as one side headlights seeming much dimmer than the other?
The fog light relay coil is grounded through the high beam circuit so that turning on the high beams turns off the fog lights by removing the ground for the relay coil. What appears to be happening in your case is that there is some problem in the high beam wiring that is causing the fog light relay to ground through the high beam indicator lamp rather than high beam lamps. Do you have other symptoms such as one side headlights seeming much dimmer than the other?
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
If you have a power supply problem to the interior light circuit then toggling ANY power-using circuit could cause the lights to flicker - just like your house lights might flicker when the air conditioning cycles on - the two circuits are not connected but they do get power from the same place.
The interior lights get both their power and ground through the BCM and they function regardless of whether any of the exterior lights are on or not.
I recommend first checking all the headlight connectors for corrosion and cleaning them as necessary. Those connectors are known to cause intermittent connections and ground problems due to corrosion.
The interior lights get both their power and ground through the BCM and they function regardless of whether any of the exterior lights are on or not.
I recommend first checking all the headlight connectors for corrosion and cleaning them as necessary. Those connectors are known to cause intermittent connections and ground problems due to corrosion.
Clean as can be. Even used a relay harness when installing all my HID kit. I unpluged all lamps head high fogs from bulbs and both problems still exist.
I did put an entire column from a 00 Camaro in my 98 for the wheel controls, wired them directly to my aftermarket hu problem started after this but not immediately after probably 2 months down the road. I used my old key for a VATS bypass.
I did put an entire column from a 00 Camaro in my 98 for the wheel controls, wired them directly to my aftermarket hu problem started after this but not immediately after probably 2 months down the road. I used my old key for a VATS bypass.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Adding aftermarket HIDs to the mix just makes diagnostics more difficult - that is a piece of information that would have been helpful from the start. And yes, the fog light/high beam indicator problem would still exist when the headlights are unplugged - in fact, even a car without electrical problems would exhibit the same symptoms with the high beams unplugged.
I doubt it has anything to do with your lighting problem but I'm curious - what do you mean you wired your steering wheel controls directly to the aftermarket head unit. With very few exceptions, aftermarket HUs require an adapter between the steering wheel controls and the HU (the Audiovox Special Performance systems were a notable exception).
I doubt it has anything to do with your lighting problem but I'm curious - what do you mean you wired your steering wheel controls directly to the aftermarket head unit. With very few exceptions, aftermarket HUs require an adapter between the steering wheel controls and the HU (the Audiovox Special Performance systems were a notable exception).
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Well yes, Camaros didn't... Firebirds did since '95.
None of that would have any effect on lighting - internal or external - so you don't have to worry about checking there.
None of that would have any effect on lighting - internal or external - so you don't have to worry about checking there.
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Verdad Gallardo I had removed all the hid lighting and oem bulbs unplugged the harnesses and both problems still exist so I don't believe it to be anything at the forward bay. Should I try putting my old 98 column in and see if it still exists.
Thanks for all your help thus far too.
Thanks for all your help thus far too.
Last edited by Camaro98Z/28; Mar 26, 2014 at 08:13 PM.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
I can't think of anything in the column that would affect lighting. The only lighting related circuit there is the illumination for the radio controls. I suppose you could try unplugging those (no need to remove the entire column).
Will do that tonight!
The dome/map lights flickering is the major annoyance. My LEDs are pretty bright and them flickering at night is a big distraction.
They dont perhaps share a chassis ground do they? I would assume a weak ground breaking and making contact could also cause the issue.
The dome/map lights flickering is the major annoyance. My LEDs are pretty bright and them flickering at night is a big distraction.
They dont perhaps share a chassis ground do they? I would assume a weak ground breaking and making contact could also cause the issue.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
They do share a ground but it is not a chassis ground. The courtesy lights (dome and map) get both power and ground from the BCM. The BCM provides power at all times except when it "goes to sleep" about 15 minutes after the ignition is shut off. That's to prevent battery drain if the lights are left on either with the switch or because of a door left open. The BCM controls the ground to provide variable brightness to create the theater dimming effect.
There is a separate chassis ground for the map lights that is used when you turn them on using the switches in the mirror. That is ground G200 which is a stud behind the left kick panel trim. But it is used by numerous other dash circuits so I doubt that would be the problem. Besides, it has nothing to do with the dome light and only gets used for the map lights when they are switched on manually.
There is a separate chassis ground for the map lights that is used when you turn them on using the switches in the mirror. That is ground G200 which is a stud behind the left kick panel trim. But it is used by numerous other dash circuits so I doubt that would be the problem. Besides, it has nothing to do with the dome light and only gets used for the map lights when they are switched on manually.
Sounds like a ground problem to me. Ground problems can be a real pain and they rarely make since. Grounds can cause back feed problems such as lights that aren't lit being on dimly. I would bet you either disconnected a ground or broke a ground wire at some point while working on the car.
Go thru and double check the grounds, even in circuits that don't seem associated with the affected circuits.
Good luck.
Go thru and double check the grounds, even in circuits that don't seem associated with the affected circuits.
Good luck.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
It always mystifies me when people jump in with "ground problem" for every undiagnosed electrical issue.
It is quite possible that a bad ground is the source of the problem. It is equally possible that a bad power connection is the culprit. My point is that guessing doesn't accomplish anything. And when it is found, it will make perfect sense as long as you understand electrical circuits.
It is quite possible that a bad ground is the source of the problem. It is equally possible that a bad power connection is the culprit. My point is that guessing doesn't accomplish anything. And when it is found, it will make perfect sense as long as you understand electrical circuits.
Its just weird that they ONLY pulse when running. Not when they are supposed to be powered on via door opened or triggered on with the dimmer. They dont pulse when the key is in accessory or on, only when the car itself is running do they flicker and honestly its so constant and bright Id say they are strobe more than flicker.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
They shouldn't be on at all while running. Have you tried removing the LED bulbs and restoring the original incandescent bulbs? Since LEDs have almost no resistance compared to incandescent, I'm think possibly you have current leakage that would not be noticed except with LEDs.
Swapped my mirror with the oem one with stock bulbs. No pulse but its weird I cant be the only one who put LEDs in the mirror why would there be any current at all pulsing though the wiring?
Unplugging the radio controls did nothing.
Unplugging the radio controls did nothing.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
I had read somewhere that there is a small current flowing through the courtesy light circuit at all times which is why I suggested trying the original lights. Someone else on this forum had a similar issue after switching to LED bulbs but it was a long time ago and I haven't had much luck finding the thread. The current is too little to illuminate standard incandescent bulbs but can do weird things with the low resistance of LED bulbs. But it's easy to fix... just add a resistor to the circuit like you would with LED turn signal bulbs.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
You'll want a 6-ohm resistor. Higher wattage resistors can handle more power without getting as hot while still maintaining the same resistance so buy the 1-watt if you can find it. A 1/2-watt will do the job but give it more air space for the heat.