Gentlemen,

I am in the process of trying to fix my drivers side power window. When I bought the car I noticed that the window was up and I could not roll it down with the switch, I took the door panel off and saw that the window motor had been unplugged. I hooked the battery up turned the car to 'On' and the window started rolling down all on its own, without me touching the switch. I have since disconnected the battery, removed the old motor and rails, and replaced the window assembly. When I reconnected everything the new motor still rolls down when the key is turned on.

Thus began troubleshooting and trying to figure out why the brown window motor wire is turning into a hot when the power is turned on. Using the old window motor, I can watch and test the function of the power windows without having to reach in and fiddle with the motor I have remounted to keep the elements out (reversed polarity with alligator clips to get it to roll up). Using my old motor, I noticed that when the key power turns on, the motor is continually spinning.
- Using a test light on a hot, I noted that the Dark Blue (window up) was not functioning, as the test light would not change when window up was depressed. I replaced the switch and that now functions as intended.
- Using a test light on a hot, I can validate that the Brown (Express-Down) works, I can also hear the relay click and the test light will turn off for 5 seconds before re-illuminating.
- I have removed a 4-wire box from below the dash, just above the tranmission tunnel; I believe this to be the Express-Down Module. After I removed this the Brown (Express-Down) no longer functioned, however, the motor still was in a state on continually rolling down.

At this point, I can only stop the window motor from spinning by removing the Express-Down Module and pressing window up. As soon as I release the window up, the motor continues to rolls down. It doesnt make sense that the window motor is being supplied a constant hot over Brown as I was under the impression that the wires would be dead unless commanded either up or down, thus making either Dark Blue or Brown the power and the other the ground to roll up or down the window respectively.

Other information - If I remove the window switch the window motor does not function. It is the same result as removing the 30A from the fuse block.

I am at your mercy as this is completely out of my skill set. Thank you for taking the time to read and provide assistance.

Referencing this diagram: https://ls1tech.com/forums/stereo-el...wn-module.html

 

There are two brown wires at the express down module - one is the power input from the WINDOWS circuit breaker and the other is the output to the left window motor. The power input brown wire will be live in run, accy, or when the retained accessory power (RAP) circuit is active.

You mention that you remove the express down module and use the window up switch to move the window up but that the window goes down again as soon as you release the switch. This is impossible unless you have some weird short in the brown wire or it has been rewired. Otherwise, the brown wire could not connect to ground to roll the window up or to power to roll the window down. The brown wire goes directly from the window motor to the express down module with no other connections in between so unplugging the module would leave the brown wire with no connection to anything and therefore an incomplete circuit which could not run the motor.

 

Thanks for the reply WhiteBird00.

Okay, so if I understand you correctly, I should be able to ground the test light, remove the EDM, key on, and test the brown wires at the Express-Down Module. One of these wires should be hot, which would illuminate my test light; meaning that the other brown wire would then be the output to the left window motor, which would be dead and not illuminate. Would you happen to know which is which in the event they both test hot? I believe there could be a hack-job under there supplying both with constant power.

I guess I should clarify, I did not remove the express down module or use the window up switch to move the window up. To get the window up, I disconnected the Brown/Dark Blue wires from the motor and used two wires with alligator clips on each end to flip the connection (since I could not plug it in upside down). I then turned the key on and the motor started moving like normal, except, in the opposite direction rolling the window up since I reversed the polarity by flipping the wires. If I were to plug the motor in using the connector, it would have simply tried to roll down again instead of up.

But, if I were to guess, the brown wire from the Express-Down Module to the Window Motor should be completely un-powered when the Module is disconnected; which makes absolute sense. But with the module disconnected I still receive power to the brown wire on the motor end (I can illuminate the test light in the connector) so it looks like I will have to crawl in there and check both wires at the EDM end and go from there.

 

So I returned to the Camaro to do some testing; I did not have a picture available so I drew up a diagram of the connector. First I removed the Express-Down Module, turned the key to the 'On' position, grounded the test light, and tested the connector with these results:
1. No light
2. N/A
3. Light
4. No light
5. No light
The puzzling piece is that one only one brown wire tested hot. Like we had discussed earlier about one being the constant hot from the power block and the other being the supply to the window motor. Only one of them testing hot has me confused because after testing this connector, I validated that the brown wire for the window motor was still illuminating my grounded test light, but only at the motor end (The connector end was dead). I was still able to illuminate the grounded test light by touching it the the brown wire in the Window Motor Connector even though the EDM box was removed and that only one brown wire had power.



I will try and upload a picture of the Express-Down Connector, the box itself, and the test light.

 

I have included two more pictures. The first showing me using a grounded test light illustrating that the Brown Window Motor wire has power with the EDM removed (sitting on door sill)

The second picture is showing the EDM connector that I have been troubleshooting. Thank you for your time gentlemen.


Grounded Test Light, EDM removed sitting on Door Sill

EDM Connector?

 

Getting power at only one of the brown wires at the express down module is entirely as it should be. Without being plugged in to the module, there is no way for power to get from that brown input wire to the other brown output wire.

Having power at the brown wire at the motor with the module unplugged is very wrong. Having power at that brown wire at the motor but not at the other end of the same wire at the module connector is even more wrong. It is remotely possible that you have a short somewhere between a live power wire for some circuit and the brown wire to the window motor but it is much more likely that the wiring has been modified, perhaps for some sort of keyless entry accessory that is intended to lower the windows from a key fob. In any case, you will need to start racing the brown wire from the window motor back to wherever it is picking up power.

 

So I have found two different aftermarket modules connected underneath the dashboard. There was an alarm system, and what I believe to be a remote start/keyless entry kit. I have ripped all of that out now, and reconnected the wires. The car still starts and runs, but the window motor is still just continuously rolling down. I can post pictures shorty.

 

Just wanted to follow up, in case anyone else ever runs into this issue.

I solved it today. I ripped the whole dash out so I could peak through the wiring loom and find the culprit out of sheer determination to not get bested.

With the door open my buddy was reading through the RPO codes and noticed it did not have the WU8 RPO. This led us to discover much more useful information like the door not belonging to my car because the VIN was different; guess it was an accident item. This led to use looking and seeing the door grommet was backwards which when pulled back revealed.... *drum roll* an absolute hack job. When the door was replaced, they didnt care to run the loom out of the door and do it correctly. Instead they just hacked it on both vehicles and spliced it together, which left room for error and they flipped the two brown wires that go into the door (the Hot Brown for the Window Switch from the Fuse Block; and the Brown from the Express Down Module for the Window Motor). I assume there is many more flipped, so I will have to do some ol' fashioned testing. Clowns, absolute clowns. Also, I feel like painting my face now because I own this car, regardless of its great price; I did get myself into more than I wanted to.

Tomorrow I will clean all of this wiring nightmare up and get the car back together. It will be an intensive job of removing 50 vampire clips, 100 yds of electrical tape, the assorted 1-to-5 wire splice specials, and 25 sets of butt connectors. I will probably be drinking... heavily... so maybe I get it done, maybe I just pass out with my clown paint on.

Cheers.

 

Glad you found it. Enjoy the adventure!

Your references to drunk clowns got me looking at drunk clown memes and I found this one applicable: