02Z28LS1

iTrader: (2)

yeah, yeah, i know all of that...but i'm not talking about the deepness of the sub, i'm talking about the tightness of the suspension. a sub can still sound "boomy" even in a sealed box. note that i am not equating "boomy" to "deep". they are two totally different things. "deep" means it can play very low into the frequency range. "boomy" means the bass sounds sloppy rather than controlled.

given the same sub driven by the same amp in 2 different sealed boxes, one of them 1 cu. ft. and one of them .5 cu. ft., the sub will be tighter in the .5 cu. ft. box than it will in the 1 cu. ft. box (assuming both boxes are airtight). it's a simple matter of physics. the sub will have to be pushed harder to move the same distance in a box 1/2 the size, which won't happen if you're using the same sub and the same amp (of course, assuming that the settings on the amp are the same, i.e., no bass boost on one and not on the other, etc.).

the sub will not move as much, i.e., springing back to "rest" a lot easier in the smaller box, hence "tighter" sounding bass than in the box that is twice the internal volume. will the sound change be as drastic as going from a sealed box to a ported box? no. will there still be a difference in the stiffness? yes. that's the point i was trying to make.

throw a sub that was optimized for a 1 cu. ft. sealed enclosure into a sealed enclosure with 3 cu. ft. of airspace, and i'd be willing to bet it wouldn't sound anywhere near as tight, so your statement that "If you want tight bass you need a sealed box" should be changed to "If you want tight bass you need a sealed box of the appropriate size for the level of 'tightness' you want to obtain".

although, i will give you the fact that i should have specified that i was talking about only sealed boxes with my previous post.

2MuchRiceMakesMeSick

You are refering to Qts = Qms + Qes.

Actually this "springing" that you are referring to is two different parameters that wind up making three. What you are trying to touch on is called the Qms, the mechanical resistance of the transducer which consists of the spider, surround, mass of the voice coil, and mass of the cone/dust cap. There is MUCH MUCH more to it then this.

Bottom line is. You cant just throw a sub in any air space like your talking about. The manufacture sends out airspace and port/duct lengths with their subs for a reason. There is a whole world of science and mathmatics to what you are trying to 'school' me on. We havent even learned the alphabet yet. I know this because before I changed my major to computer programming, I was going to manufacture speakers.

02Z28LS1

iTrader: (2)

like i'm talking about? since when? you're reading waaaaaayyyy too much into what i said.

i never said that you could throw a sub into just any amount of airspace that you want, and i'm sorry if you understood anything i said that way. all i said (simply put), is that all other things being equal, a sub in a smaller, airtight, sealed box will be springier (tighter) than the same exact sub in a airtight, sealed box that has twice the internal volume. nothing more, nothing less.....

let's review this entire discussion, so that maybe i can get the point across that i was trying to make......

SidewayzOZ stated that the L7's needed "serious airspace", which implied that it needed an extremely large enclosure to work, which is not true. the Kicker website states that the minimum recommended sealed box is .88 cubic feet, and the maximum recommended sealed box should be 2 cubic feet. will they be as loud as possible or perform to their maximum potential in a .88 cubic foot sealed box? NO. will they still play within acceptable limits for most people? YES. if they didn't, Kicker would not have listed .88 cu.ft. as a recommended amount of airspace.

Then he said "I agree somewhat...but why would you buy an L7 and then put it in such a small box?". I answered his question by stating that it all depends on what you want to do with the sub. if you want it to play at its highest sound level and go as low into the frequency range as it possibly can, then no, you would not put it into a .88 (or even a 1 cu. ft.) sealed box. but not everyone (myself included) is willing to take up between 1.75 and 3.25 cubic feet in a ported box for a single 12" sub, especially in an f-body with t-tops, regardless of how much louder it is, or how much better it may sound. let me reiterate: it all depends on what you want to do with the sub.

anyone that's been around car audio for a while can tell you that the smaller the sealed box (air-tight, of course, and within the recommended range of enclosure sizes), the tighter the suspension will be, resulting in tighter bass, hence it being "thumpier" than it is "boomy". they will also be able to tell you that a sealed box is much, much more forgiving when it comes to the exact enclosure size than a ported box is, giving you a lot more freedom in the size of the box you want to put the sub in.

yes, the specific parameters of the VAS, Qts, Qms, Qes, et al, etcetera, ad nauseum, for a sub are the major determining factors as to how a sub will sound in a given box. i'm not disputing that fact. and obviously, these specs are what you would use to determine what is the recommended enclosure size (or range of enclosure sizes) for a particular sub. but due to the simple fact that the manufacturer usually already gives you a range of acceptable box sizes, the exact specs become less important when using an airtight sealed box due to the fact that sealed boxes ARE much more forigiving (and less complex) than a ported or bandpass box.

as you should know with car audio (especially due to the limited amount of space available) there is usually a trade-off involved. do you want max performance while having to sacrifice over 6.5 cubic feet of your car's interior (two L7 12's in a ported 3.25 cu.ft. box each), or do you want to have less than max performance - while still sounding great - and still be able to retain the majority of your car's usable space (including the t-top holders).

once again: it all depends on what you want to do with the sub.

we can even put it in terms that the layperson on this site can understand: if your car is your daily driver, your ONLY vehicle, and you don't have the money for two sets of rims/tires, is it gonna make a lot of sense to spend your money on racing slicks to get the maximum performance during the (relatively) small amount of time you take your car to the strip, only to come to the realization that you won't be able to drive it on the street legally, or in the rain/snow safely? yet again: it all depends on what you wanna do with it.

you seem to have a vast amount of audio knowledge, and i laud you for wanting to share it, but sometimes too much knowledge can be detrimental to the task or question at hand. have you ever heard the term "over-engineering"? you're trying to solve a simple question with an unnecessarily complex answer. "driving in a finishing nail with a jackhammer", as it were.

the simple question was if the Kicker 12L7 will sound good in a 1 cu.ft. sealed enclosure. the simple answer: YES

if someone is asking a question like this, then they obviously don't have as much knowledge about the subject as some of us who have been around it more and know the answer (which i'm not saying is bad, everyone starts somewhere), and they just want an answer so they can get on with things. usually they are not as discerning in their tastes as a high-tech audiophile is, and do not need a high-tech answer, just a simple "yes" or "no" is all they really wanted in the first place.

your custom avatar title "Tech Fanatic" fits you very well just try to determine when a complex answer is desired and needed, and when a simple answer will suffice. if there's one valuable thing that i've learned during my years of working in tech support/customer service, it's that exact thing.

megabass

Like I said before. 1 cu.ft. works great.
http://www.kicker.com/HUShow.cfm?ID=54624

02Z28LS1

iTrader: (2)

indeed....i agree