Do I need a cap. ?
07-22-2006, 01:25 PM
#41
Staging Lane
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike @ FbodyAudio
But as for traditional caps, I would not say their use in pro level competition is as wide spread as it used to be.
i guess i am just too used to speaking with the old fogey engineer sq competitors.
07-23-2006, 01:26 AM
#42
Originally Posted by Punk0Rama
if there is a lack of current available in the first place, then no, it won't help.
capacitors do have very good positives to them as well if used in the correct situation, especially if the amp does not have "sufficient" capacitance in the first place. unlike batteries, widely available capacitors typically have higher ESR/ESL when compared to their respective storage capabilities. almost any product branded as a "stiffening" capacitor will cost you way more than you should pay and will have detrimental resistance and inductance in line. a good choice is getting few of these guys wired in parallel:
http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?hand...oductid=296516
if you think that a capacitor does nothing, well, i can only say that you may not be familiar with the laws of physics. as i mentioned, a capacitor will provide minor and temporary assistance if the current is not readily available; it is not your solution, but it is an assistance. if the current is readily available, then a capacitor can be very helpful.
fyi, i'm one guy who could care less how many systems you say you have had on the internet
capacitors do have very good positives to them as well if used in the correct situation, especially if the amp does not have "sufficient" capacitance in the first place. unlike batteries, widely available capacitors typically have higher ESR/ESL when compared to their respective storage capabilities. almost any product branded as a "stiffening" capacitor will cost you way more than you should pay and will have detrimental resistance and inductance in line. a good choice is getting few of these guys wired in parallel:
http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?hand...oductid=296516
if you think that a capacitor does nothing, well, i can only say that you may not be familiar with the laws of physics. as i mentioned, a capacitor will provide minor and temporary assistance if the current is not readily available; it is not your solution, but it is an assistance. if the current is readily available, then a capacitor can be very helpful.
fyi, i'm one guy who could care less how many systems you say you have had on the internet
it only provides current once, and once only, than it can't provide power again, because it can't recharge itself again
if I turn off my system, let the cap and battery fully charge, than turn on my music, after that first hard hitting bass, where's it going to pull the power from again? It doesn't have any to pull from, so it will get what it can from the battery, strain once again.....
so lets do this, it would work than, rofl, we turn the music on, play it's one low note, pause it to recharge than do it again, oh my too much...
You too need to read about deep cycle batteries.and how they work
originally, a cap was designed to keep strain off the charging system by providing temporarily power when needed, simple fact is, it doesn't as I described above. If there's no power to be had, it's going to pull from the battery. The cap doesn't see the charging unit, it doeesn't know, its always going to pull from the battery.
ok, now I will give you a benefit of the doubt, lets just say we do have enough power, what is the cap going to do now, that we have enough power over a deep cycle battery? A cap's other purpose is to provide a constant linear voltage, a deep cycle battery does this too, as a matter of fact, it doesn't it so well, it will provide a constant voltage til the battery is dead, now many how hard you draw from it.
So why waste money on something that really isn't effective anymore? like Mike said, to make money. It's a marketing tool, it's been that way for awhile.
lol, ok, you think everyone here is an internet poster, too much.
Where's all these people who commented? Like I said before, show me.
07-23-2006, 01:37 AM
#43
Originally Posted by Mike @ FbodyAudio
not really.. I'd say it's split down the middle.
What is popular on the competition circuit these days are the BatCaps... But they are not like traditional caps, they're more like batteries with really fast discharge and recharge rates. In fact, the larger ones have enough cranking amps to be used as a starting battery.
But as for traditional caps, I would not say their use in pro level competition is as wide spread as it used to be.
mike
What is popular on the competition circuit these days are the BatCaps... But they are not like traditional caps, they're more like batteries with really fast discharge and recharge rates. In fact, the larger ones have enough cranking amps to be used as a starting battery.
But as for traditional caps, I would not say their use in pro level competition is as wide spread as it used to be.
mike
http://www.batcap.net/index1.htm
What does it say, it's a battery, rofl. Got to love it.
http://www.batcap.net/Changes/WhatIsBatCap.htm
yeap, a battery than can chage/discharge like a cap because of it's low internal resistance.
go check the internal resistance on the yellow tops, it's low too, so it recharges fast also, rofl.
wow, amazing that now they realized caps really aren't working. I be intersted to see how those batcaps are really layed out, some deep cycle technology I bet, rofl.
07-23-2006, 01:52 AM
#44
Originally Posted by Punk0Rama
not as wide spread as they used to be because no one thinks to use the right capacitors
i guess i am just too used to speaking with the old fogey engineer sq competitors.
i guess i am just too used to speaking with the old fogey engineer sq competitors.
Depending on class, most SQ classses get points on design, unless your in amature class
07-23-2006, 12:10 PM
#45
Staging Lane
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by wickedwarlock
No, because companies are realizing there's other solutions. More batteries and an additional alternator is what I see now.
Depending on class, most SQ classses get points on design, unless your in amature class
Depending on class, most SQ classses get points on design, unless your in amature class
07-23-2006, 06:32 PM
#46
Restricted User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: south central PA
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Punk0Rama
"the pros don't use caps"
maybe not in spl competitions.
in sq competitions, different story.
maybe not in spl competitions.
in sq competitions, different story.
ok, I did a little bit of research.. granted, a small sample, but you can see the trend. Caps in pro level sq competition are definately in the minority.
first, me:
Mike Lacher
3rd place IASCA '05 Finals, Expert Street 601+
- no caps
Jason Ewing
IASCA Pro Street competitor, pro installer for many years, including having built competition cars for others.
-no caps
Lee Byerly
Image Dynamics Competition Team captin
-no caps
Anthony Davis
IASCA Pro Ultimate
00, '02 USAC 601+ Adv. Con World Champ
- no caps
Tony Pasquale
IASCA Expert Street
2003,2004,2005 IASCA SQ World Champion
2005 USACI World Champion + best of show
Bob Johann
IASCA Pro Street 1-600 2001 Champion
SLAP Pro Street 1-600 2002 Champion
MECA SQL Master 2002 Champion
IASCA StreetX 1-600 2003 Champion
SLAP Expert Street 2005 Champion
07-23-2006, 06:47 PM
#47
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In my garage
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've wandered into this thread trying to figure out what to do for my dimming headlights. Now I feel more confused than before. Perhaps someone could suggest if a deep cycle battery, cap, or higher amp alternator would help me best.
I'm running two pioneer amps rated(peak) at 800 and 450. The only issue I have is headlights dimming with each subwoofer beat while cruising at 2000rpm w/out AC on. Any ideas? Any formulas to follow for sizing an alternator?
I'm leaning towards a 180 amp alternator from alterstart. TIA
I'm running two pioneer amps rated(peak) at 800 and 450. The only issue I have is headlights dimming with each subwoofer beat while cruising at 2000rpm w/out AC on. Any ideas? Any formulas to follow for sizing an alternator?
I'm leaning towards a 180 amp alternator from alterstart. TIA
07-23-2006, 08:30 PM
#48
Originally Posted by Punk0Rama
i think you're looking at this purely as a matter of power storage, whereas i'm looking at it as a method of power filtering.
07-23-2006, 09:34 PM
#49
Restricted User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: south central PA
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SSpeedracer
I've wandered into this thread trying to figure out what to do for my dimming headlights. Now I feel more confused than before. Perhaps someone could suggest if a deep cycle battery, cap, or higher amp alternator would help me best.
07-24-2006, 11:02 AM
#51
Launching!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Nash-Vegas
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike @ FbodyAudio
here's last years setup:
http://www.djsexay.com/system05.html
and here is a sneek peak at what's in store for next season.
http://www.djsexay.com/gallery/hawk06
http://www.djsexay.com/system05.html
and here is a sneek peak at what's in store for next season.
http://www.djsexay.com/gallery/hawk06
Damn, you are going all out! So I take it your doing SPL comps.? I checked out your page and it appears your gonna be ready for next year! I could only imagine how insane your stereo is. What kind of DB's are you producing? Sorry for doubting you up front.
07-24-2006, 12:29 PM
#52
Restricted User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: south central PA
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CamaroSS615
Damn, you are going all out! So I take it your doing SPL comps.? I checked out your page and it appears your gonna be ready for next year! I could only imagine how insane your stereo is. What kind of DB's are you producing? Sorry for doubting you up front.
nope, no SPL... this is an SQ system.
subs in the back seat area like I have absolutely suck for DB, but it's great for SQ as there is more room to build a larger, flatter playing box (without taking up the ttop area). That setup barely hits 135 db on a audio control spl sensor mic, while before, I had a single 12" JBL and 1 1100 watt amp in the hatch, and hit 138 db on a term pro sensor mic.
But this setup is the flattest, non-boomy, linear and accurate bass I've ever heard in this car.
07-24-2006, 09:44 PM
#54
On The Tree
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an EE, I also would like to chime in solely from an electrical standpoint. I could careless about caps for car audio. I have a 250 watt amp for a sub and thats it, so no fanboy **** from me.
A cap will only help IF you have the power available from the alternator alone. If at any point the alternator can not provide all of the available power for the car, you will be hooking a battery charger up at least once a week if not more. A cap will help only a small amount. You simply can not provide enough power from a cap to power anything except for a few LEDs. A cap will never help provide more "net" power to a system. A cap can help a charging system. The surge from an amp will be taken by the cap and not the alternator. The alternator will then be able to charge the cap back up. This is one reason why you size a cap for the wattage of a system.
Keep in mind:
Alternator needs to provide enough power to charge the battery, power your amps, and charge the cap.
Caps do not add any "net" power.
Caps help reduce surge on the alternator.
Caps used to help provide constant filtered voltage which is no longer required due to deep cycle batteries. A cap would still possibly help here because no battery has zero resistance, but how much is over kill?
Again, not a car audio buff, but electricity is electricity regardless of what you use it for.
Jason
A cap will only help IF you have the power available from the alternator alone. If at any point the alternator can not provide all of the available power for the car, you will be hooking a battery charger up at least once a week if not more. A cap will help only a small amount. You simply can not provide enough power from a cap to power anything except for a few LEDs. A cap will never help provide more "net" power to a system. A cap can help a charging system. The surge from an amp will be taken by the cap and not the alternator. The alternator will then be able to charge the cap back up. This is one reason why you size a cap for the wattage of a system.
Keep in mind:
Alternator needs to provide enough power to charge the battery, power your amps, and charge the cap.
Caps do not add any "net" power.
Caps help reduce surge on the alternator.
Caps used to help provide constant filtered voltage which is no longer required due to deep cycle batteries. A cap would still possibly help here because no battery has zero resistance, but how much is over kill?
Again, not a car audio buff, but electricity is electricity regardless of what you use it for.
Jason
