should I bi-amp my expensive components?
10-13-2006, 09:56 AM
#1
should I bi-amp my expensive components? I think my door speakers have excellent SQ and I haven't found a pair of sail panels speakers I like should I use my 4 channel amp for just the expensive door components?
amp is alpine 4x70 WRMS alpine speakers spx177r they sound great / 2 channels but what I have noticed is from low volume to about 3/4 volume they sound like mid volume when I get above 30 (volume scale is 0-35) they crank.
?1(I have been told that I should'nt crank above 3/4 volume). is this true or false?
? 2 doe's the cross over network divide the power 70WRMS in half 35 to tweeters & 35 to woofer?
?3 can I use the HU power (Kenwood X890 22WRMS) for the tweeters an the amp for the woofer?
my CRSX network has tweeter and woofer inputs.
thanks for advice I'm allmost done here.
amp is alpine 4x70 WRMS alpine speakers spx177r they sound great / 2 channels but what I have noticed is from low volume to about 3/4 volume they sound like mid volume when I get above 30 (volume scale is 0-35) they crank.
?1(I have been told that I should'nt crank above 3/4 volume). is this true or false?
? 2 doe's the cross over network divide the power 70WRMS in half 35 to tweeters & 35 to woofer?
?3 can I use the HU power (Kenwood X890 22WRMS) for the tweeters an the amp for the woofer?
my CRSX network has tweeter and woofer inputs.
thanks for advice I'm allmost done here.
10-13-2006, 04:19 PM
#2
1.) Excessive CLEAN power does not blow speakers. Clipped power does. Once you exceed your amps capibility you are more than likely going to blow the speaker. Where on your volume **** is pushing the amp to clipping no one can tell you. There are no "standards" for that. If your sound is distoring you have probabaly excedded your amps clean power capibility and should not be going that far on the volume ****.
2.) Most power is needed to drive bass not mids or highs. All the crossover does is filter out the highs from getting into the bass driver and the lows from getting into the tweeters.
3.)You can but it probably won't help. You need an amp that has more clean power IMO.
Keep in mind that speakers have a rating for efficiency. The higher the number the louder they play with lower power. I very low efficiency speaker will require more power to drive it to louder levels than a very efficient speaker. Again, you probably need a more powerful amplifier.
2.) Most power is needed to drive bass not mids or highs. All the crossover does is filter out the highs from getting into the bass driver and the lows from getting into the tweeters.
3.)You can but it probably won't help. You need an amp that has more clean power IMO.
Keep in mind that speakers have a rating for efficiency. The higher the number the louder they play with lower power. I very low efficiency speaker will require more power to drive it to louder levels than a very efficient speaker. Again, you probably need a more powerful amplifier.
10-13-2006, 04:50 PM
#3
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bridge the amp into 2 channels, and run your components that way.
excessive power is excessive power. A speaker does not care if it's clipped. Although generally speaking, an amp clipping is delivering more power then if it was delivering an unclipped sine wave.. but it's the excess in power, not the fact that the signal is clipped that blows speakers.
mike
excessive power is excessive power. A speaker does not care if it's clipped. Although generally speaking, an amp clipping is delivering more power then if it was delivering an unclipped sine wave.. but it's the excess in power, not the fact that the signal is clipped that blows speakers.
mike
10-13-2006, 05:43 PM
#4
Originally Posted by Mike @ FbodyAudio
bridge the amp into 2 channels, and run your components that way.
excessive power is excessive power. A speaker does not care if it's clipped. Although generally speaking, an amp clipping is delivering more power then if it was delivering an unclipped sine wave.. but it's the excess in power, not the fact that the signal is clipped that blows speakers.
mike
excessive power is excessive power. A speaker does not care if it's clipped. Although generally speaking, an amp clipping is delivering more power then if it was delivering an unclipped sine wave.. but it's the excess in power, not the fact that the signal is clipped that blows speakers.
mike
Ah, I'm afraid your wrong. A clipping amp is sending a DC signal to the driver and it WILL blow the driver. It's been a while since my electrical courses but please see the below link....
http://www.muzeekworld.com/products_speaker_faq.htm
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/faq/faqdet...KNOWLEDGE_ITEM
Last edited by Mike02Z; 10-13-2006 at 05:50 PM.
10-14-2006, 12:34 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by Mike @ FbodyAudio
bridge the amp into 2 channels, and run your components that way.
excessive power is excessive power. A speaker does not care if it's clipped. Although generally speaking, an amp clipping is delivering more power then if it was delivering an unclipped sine wave.. but it's the excess in power, not the fact that the signal is clipped that blows speakers.
mike
excessive power is excessive power. A speaker does not care if it's clipped. Although generally speaking, an amp clipping is delivering more power then if it was delivering an unclipped sine wave.. but it's the excess in power, not the fact that the signal is clipped that blows speakers.
mike
Continuing what Mike02Z started. From what I read on bcae1.com; when a woofer is clipped it is not moving as much as it should, thus not cooling like it should, which CAN cause the voice coil to melt or become distorted from overheating.
Source:
Damaging Woofers paragraph
http://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm
10-15-2006, 07:37 AM
#6
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Also...you can actually blow a speaker or sub from not enough power. Clip an amp thats only 200 watts on a sub with 1000 watt RMS and it will start to sound like crap, then eventually not worth playing. It wont lock up in ALL cases, but still need to be rebuilt.
I've clipped my Orion 225 HCCA on 3 JL 12W6s. One of the 3 locked up. At 1/2 ohm bridged, they say it does 800 watts. Each 12 was 300 rms. Yeah, when it clipped, it was WAY more than it could take.
I read once, when an amp is at its clip point, it can, and will exceed its power rating. Which is where a lot of the times, the fuse will blow.
I've clipped my Orion 225 HCCA on 3 JL 12W6s. One of the 3 locked up. At 1/2 ohm bridged, they say it does 800 watts. Each 12 was 300 rms. Yeah, when it clipped, it was WAY more than it could take.
I read once, when an amp is at its clip point, it can, and will exceed its power rating. Which is where a lot of the times, the fuse will blow.
10-16-2006, 11:00 AM
#7
clipping
Originally Posted by Mike02Z
1.) Excessive CLEAN power does not blow speakers. Clipped power does. Once you exceed your amps capibility you are more than likely going to blow the speaker. Where on your volume **** is pushing the amp to clipping no one can tell you. There are no "standards" for that. If your sound is distoring you have probabaly excedded your amps clean power capibility and should not be going that far on the volume ****.
2.) Most power is needed to drive bass not mids or highs. All the crossover does is filter out the highs from getting into the bass driver and the lows from getting into the tweeters.
3.)You can but it probably won't help. You need an amp that has more clean power IMO.
Keep in mind that speakers have a rating for efficiency. The higher the number the louder they play with lower power. I very low efficiency speaker will require more power to drive it to louder levels than a very efficient speaker. Again, you probably need a more powerful amplifier.
2.) Most power is needed to drive bass not mids or highs. All the crossover does is filter out the highs from getting into the bass driver and the lows from getting into the tweeters.
3.)You can but it probably won't help. You need an amp that has more clean power IMO.
Keep in mind that speakers have a rating for efficiency. The higher the number the louder they play with lower power. I very low efficiency speaker will require more power to drive it to louder levels than a very efficient speaker. Again, you probably need a more powerful amplifier.
the volume ***** scale is 0-35 maybe I'll just try to keep it not over 31.
I thought I matched the speakers 75WRMS to the amp 70 WRMS.
I tryed a set of nice co-ax speakers and am now allmost conzinced all I need is the front conponents. so am I wasting half an amp?
?1. if I brigde the amp it puts out 200WRMS won't that be way to much?
?2. if I use 1 half the amp on the woofer the other half on the tweeter that will be 70WRMS to each which is the preferred for me?
thanks
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10-16-2006, 11:20 AM
#8
Turn up your amp sensitivity so you don't have to turn the volume up as high to get the same loudness.
You must be listening to your audio very loud. I've had these speakers for over a year and never seen any lights come on in the crossovers. I listen to my stuff loud at times as well.
What model headunit and amps are you using??
You must be listening to your audio very loud. I've had these speakers for over a year and never seen any lights come on in the crossovers. I listen to my stuff loud at times as well.
What model headunit and amps are you using??
10-16-2006, 02:30 PM
#9
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Any kind of excessive power blows speakers. Clipped power just generally blows them much easier. Speakers would not have power ratings if they were never blown by clean power.
If you plug a speaker into a 120V wall socket, that will be clean power, but you can be pretty sure your speaker is going to blow.
You have to give each driver equal power amps unless either you don't mind that driver potentially limiting your max volume, or you're using a pre-amplifier active crossover (active crossovers for the WIN)
If you plug a speaker into a 120V wall socket, that will be clean power, but you can be pretty sure your speaker is going to blow.
You have to give each driver equal power amps unless either you don't mind that driver potentially limiting your max volume, or you're using a pre-amplifier active crossover (active crossovers for the WIN)
10-16-2006, 02:50 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by dragonrage
If you plug a speaker into a 120V wall socket, that will be clean power, but you can be pretty sure your speaker is going to blow.
. (assuming a 4 ohm speaker).
10-16-2006, 03:36 PM
#11
bad... just bridge your amp and hook it up to your components. This will result in the best situation for your setup. It is true you will be exceeding the RMS rating into your speakers but you have to use common sense.
If you can hear distortion through the speakers, no matter what amp your are using or what the various ratings are amp relative to speaker - you should turn it down. Despite any other debate that statement is universally true.
What you need to figure out is what is causing the distortion. The head unit is being forced to provide too high of an output... the amps clipping... the speakers being over driven...
I suspect, that you have your gains on the amp set a little too low if you need to get up to 31 out of 35 for your regular listening on your head unit. But there is a proper method to setting gains, you can ask for details or look it up yourself.
You might also consider setting the crossover frequency on the component woofers a little higher than normal. They might not be able to handle 200 watts of bass. Again, you would be able to hear this. Turn your sub off and listen to just the door speakers.
If you can hear distortion through the speakers, no matter what amp your are using or what the various ratings are amp relative to speaker - you should turn it down. Despite any other debate that statement is universally true.
What you need to figure out is what is causing the distortion. The head unit is being forced to provide too high of an output... the amps clipping... the speakers being over driven...
I suspect, that you have your gains on the amp set a little too low if you need to get up to 31 out of 35 for your regular listening on your head unit. But there is a proper method to setting gains, you can ask for details or look it up yourself.
You might also consider setting the crossover frequency on the component woofers a little higher than normal. They might not be able to handle 200 watts of bass. Again, you would be able to hear this. Turn your sub off and listen to just the door speakers.
10-17-2006, 09:06 AM
#12
kenwood
Originally Posted by GPz1100
Turn up your amp sensitivity so you don't have to turn the volume up as high to get the same loudness.
You must be listening to your audio very loud. I've had these speakers for over a year and never seen any lights come on in the crossovers. I listen to my stuff loud at times as well.
What model headunit and amps are you using??
You must be listening to your audio very loud. I've had these speakers for over a year and never seen any lights come on in the crossovers. I listen to my stuff loud at times as well.
What model headunit and amps are you using??
when you say sensitivity thats the gain right? I started at NOM (I'm thinking this is nomamil. currently it's a bit lower than NOM. just keep going lower to never see the light?
Thanks
