95bat

iTrader: (1)

Alpine isn't up there with the best, either. Middle grade stuff man.

KEE AUDIO

iTrader: (65)

Alpine just has a lot bigger marketing budget than most of the higher end stuff. That's why alot of the better brands haven't been heard of in the "mainstream" audio market. The better brands just rely on there reputation in competitions instead. The average consumer doesn't compete or go to audio competitions so they would never have heard of some of the brands I mentioned. However, Alpine does make some nice headunits!! In fact, that has always been what they were really known for. Same with Kenwood, Pioneer/Premier, etc. I wouldn't own their speakers but I'd definetely buy one of there decks.

95bat

iTrader: (1)

I would own Pioneer speakers Their 720PRS comp set is supposed to be amazing. On top of that they're coming back with the ODR stuff as well.

kmgsix08

iTrader: (17)

i dont really think that JL is up there with the best. ive had JL for awhile but it isnt as good of a sub as JBL, alpine, and certainly not diamond. and dont even get me started on Xplod subs, or any sony car audio for that matter. there is a reason why they sell them at wal-mart.

fast01z28

iTrader: (6)

i didnt see anyone claiming that xplode was good. nobody in their right mind would compare them to even alpine.

JL isnt top of the line by any means, but they are top of the line as far as mainstream goes. i hear good stuff about adire, RE, ID, diamond, focal, dynaudio (do they make car subs?), Crystal, rainbow...and those arent just seen in competition, but in high end magazines and in high end shops.

if you frequent the online car audio boards youll see lots of talk about those brands. youll get laughed off those sites with JL stuff or any other main stream stuff.

Im looking at dynaudio speakers, maybe zapco 4 channel, US amps monoblock, and eho knows which sub. none of it main stream.

95bat

iTrader: (1)

I disagree with JL being not being top of the line. JL products do cost more than the average speaker, but you get every penny's worth when you buy from JL. Their products are amazing, build quality is amazing, quality control is amazing, there isn't much else you can ask for. The W7 is still an awesome sub and performs nicely. In "The Great 12 Challenge" the W7 was the loudest sub sealed from 20-40 hz and had a very nice, flat response curve. They are excellent drivers.
Their amps are also sweet. Constant power from 11-14.4 volts and from 1.5-4 ohms, plus great sound quality.
The only thing I dislike is their coax speakers. They sound loud and clear, but lack midbass.

After a while you realize that people who dislike JL are people who can't afford JL There are definately brands that cost more and perform much better than JL, but like Dave said, they are top of the line for mainstream companies.

LT1wannabe

iTrader: (2)

A lot of Alpine's stuff isn't meant to be competition-grade stuff. Most of it is designed for your average run-of-the-mill aftermarket setup. And for that (considering availablity), it's one of the best. They only have 1 product line dedicated to competition-grade products. And that line is pretty stinkin good....even for competition standards. 1000W RMS for a 10" sub isn't exactly horrible.

LT1wannabe

iTrader: (2)

A lot of Alpine's stuff isn't meant to be competition-grade stuff. Most of it is designed for your average run-of-the-mill aftermarket setup. And for that (considering availablity), it's one of the best. They only have 1 product line dedicated to competition-grade products. And that line is pretty stinkin good....even for competition standards. 1000W RMS for a 10" sub isn't exactly horrible. Oh, and by the way....for Alpine to be "average", there would have to be about 20 of these sleeper brands you speak of that just kick ***. And if they really were that nasty, their name would eventually get them street cred....and only a couple have.

95bat

iTrader: (1)

You completely contradict yourself.

Your first sentence says most Alpine prodcts are designed for your average aftermarket setup.
Then later you basically attempt refute them being average.

No offense, but you aren't proving you know anything about car audio here.

Alpine is not junk, but it is not top of the line either. It is middle grade, average equipment. Most people will be happy with their products, some people will want more than what Alpine can offer (excluding F#1Status, of course).

xXbobXsagetXx

$400 buy it now is wayyyy too much IMO.
could easily find a better deal, plus youd probably want to find a box to fix your subs specs not vice versa. good luck though!

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

toooo much money, not even a good looking box in the first place. 2 - 12's are plenty but to each his own. I run a single 10" G5. Sounds great and I dont have subs hanging out all over.

Mr.MartyStone

iTrader: (12)

I guess I should have said that 3db is a doubling of relative pressure vs ambient pressure, not a measure of sound intensity which most people mistake it with.

I have heard quite a few loud cars. My old explorer did 150.8 on the dash in USAC stock 0-150. The WR at the time was Mark Thibideaux's fullsize chevy doing 151.XX to give an idea of how my setup was working.

I used to work at International Audio in Deer Park, TX. We were the #2 Pio Premier distributor in the state of TX when I worked there back in 2000-2001. Not trying to brag, just letting you know where I come from.

I used to judge on weekends for USAC when I lived in houston, and have heard many cars all the way up to 162 in the car. Everything louder we would just set the mic on the windshield and get out of the car (not sure how versed you are, I imaginge you know this though).

If you were to hear 155 db and 158 db back and forth, it would not sound anywhere near double the volume. This is because it's not sound pressure you're listening to, it's sound intensity. The meter measures sound pressure which is basically a measurement against ambient air vs relative pressure in the car. What your brain converts the little tiny hairs in your ears vibrating into is sound intensity.


So your theory on a 3db increase being double the volume is incorrect, it's double the sound pressure relative to ambient.

Thanks,
Marty

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

nice explanation.

wtf you need more than 800 watts for a sub I'll never know. You cant sit in the car and listen to it that loud and it add about 100lbs of useless weight between the subs and amps. Maybe just to say you did it? Not sure, but its useless power and money for sure.

Its funny people make fun of ricers all the time but no one has a term yet for stupid overblown never gonna use the power car audio stuff. I like sound quality and volume but I dont need to listen to my car 3 blocks away.
Un-usable power is wasted money.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

I'll strongly disagree with you. My Boston Acoustic 10" G5 is a better sub for the same money. JL is good but by no means great.

Zapco is supposed to be one of the better amps but I run a Phoenix Gold Xenon 200.4. (4 channel)They used to be built right here in Portland Oregon but have gone overseas and almost have completely discontinued their line BUT you can still get them new off the shelf even thought they are a couple years old.
Reason I like this amp is its stable no matter what you do to it and holds at least 800 watts rms under any load. Doesnt matter the ohm load the thing cranks fairly clean power.

If I had the money I'd look into Adire for my sub and maybe amp as well. Then maybe rainbow or cdt for my comps. I'd run maybe one more 10" and then add RAF speakers to the rear seats.

Right now I run a single 10 and one set of door speakers with the tweets up under the windsield.

95bat

iTrader: (1)

The G5 is a nice sub, but like I said before, with JL you're getting a lot more than just a speaker. The build quality, QC, engineering behind it, everything is done as close to perfection as possible on everything they make.

The PG Xenon series were all great amps. If I could fit 2 of them, I'd run a 1200.1 and 200.4, but the things are just too big

By the way, Adire is no longer a "top" company. They went downhill a long time ago. The Brahma used to be an awesome sub, but the company has gone down big time.

Oh, and Rainbow > CDT

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

I'll tell the Adire boys you dont think they're any good anymore. I know them from an skittle-club in Seattle. (fast neon gets filtered)

The G5 is a much finer sub than the JL. Boston Acoustic is a sound quality driven company and the JL is nice but it is not as nice as the G5. I compared them side by side. JL is good but there is better for the money.


And I'll build you a rack that will hold two or three Xenons. You can stack them on the hump behind the passengers seat. If your looking for that much power then your subs are going to be haning out all over anyway. Three 10's or 12's in the t-top well will blow the rear window out. Although I like the tightness of 10's better

heres my rack. Just getting started. Lightweight is the key.

95bat

iTrader: (1)

Go ahead and tell the "Adire boys" what I said, maybe it will encourage them to come out with some good again

As far as the G5 being nicer... thats your opinion. They're both nice, but I'd take a W7 over the G5. Like I said before, you get what you pay for the JL.

The 1200.1 is 22" Long and the 200.4 is also 22" long... I wanted to put two of them side by side without an amp rack, but its just not possible As far as three 10s or three 12s blowing out the rear window... I hope you're just joking around about that.

Oh, by the way, the "tightness" of a speaker has nothing to do with the size. An 10" or 15" driver can both sound "tight" depending upon the install. If you don't believe me, ask your friends at Adire about it or read the write ups in their webpage.

Mr.MartyStone

iTrader: (12)

Very valid points. I have only seen one windshield broken during competition. It was a fullsize chevy with a walkthrough/pinch accordian setup. I forget the guy's name but I can still remember pictures of him trying to duct tape the long crack down the middle of the windshield. He was well into the realm of 163+ legal so he was building some serious pressure in that single cab pickup.

The tighness of a speaker that you mention Blanco has little to do with the size of the speaker. Enclosure Q and the t/s parameters contribute to the overall tightness that you speak of. Maybe the larger speakers that you find a little less appealing have just mainly been heard in larger or vented boxes? Both of these lower the effective "Q" of an enclosure. Usually .707 is what most people shoot for but with the relatively small area to work with in the car audio field .85+ is much more of a reality.


As far as brand loyalty, everybody has their favorite. I personally have no problem with JL Audio. I sold their product for many years and ran some of their gear myself before I got picked up with a pretty decent sponsorship from another company. I was always pleased with their gear. I also like Boston Acoustics. We sold their stuff and didn't have any real problems either. I can not think of a single time when we warrantied boston gear, but we sold much less than the JL stuff to be fair. I think I only personally warrantied 8 or 9 components from JL and the majority of them were 17 y/o kids blasting the living F#$K out of their W0's with "1000 watt" flea market amps No wonder it didn't live that long knucklehead.

95bat

iTrader: (1)

Nice post Marty

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

Yes the blowing out the back window was a joke. Just an illustration and not meant to be taken literal. The tightness I speak of is how hard it hits in the upper range. How does it sound on a snare drum hit or not the snare but whats the one right under it? tom-tom?. I'm not into thumping I like clean hard bass. Of all the subs I looked at and listend to I found that the 10's were better for what I like. Maybe theres a 15" out there that sounds as clean but under the conditions I checked them out at I didnt like the 15's. So maybe your right, maybe it was all environment. If I ever decide to give up my t-top well I'll experiment with a 15 and see how it does.

I never said JL was crap either, I said for the money I think you can do better. The G5 IMO is better is sound quality and build quality. JL is nice but is somewhat overated. Somewhat meaning that it isnt the best in the price range. I'll stand by that and it isnt based on brand loyalty its based on a side by side comparison. I dont run their(Boston) componants in my doors. I shop by need and sound quality and price not by loyalty. Again I think JL is very fine, but its not better than Bostons G5.

I went with the Diamonds because I got them for less than $300 delivered from ebay and in that price range they were the best. Focals sounded good but not as nice. The tweets were toooo harsh.

I spent a ton of time in sound rooms at everwhere from cartoys to magnolia hi-fi. I listened to far to many speakers before I finally settled on what I bought. Had I no budget constraints I'd have a different system. I have a friend who is an exclusive Kenwood, alpine kind of guy and his stuff sounds great but I went a different route. Lets face it there are good companys out there putting out quality stuff. It's the budget cheap stuff that you need to be careful of. Would a person go wrong with JL, no they wouldnt. Just like they wouldnt go wrong with Boston Acoustics or Focal or Diamond or any of the other top middle tier guys.


We all have our opinions and thats what makes the world go around but I'm right

Now as far as the Adire boys .. we should be doing a ride pretty soon. I'll ask them whats up. I've heard that their stuff isnt as good anymore and whyis that. I'll post what they say. They were very proud of their stuff so it should be interesting. Maybe they sold out?

My first system was an ADS powerplate, Kenwood deck, and Yamaha 6X9's. It was a screaming system, the yamahas sounded great and handled the power with ease. This was over 20 yrs ago. Analog Digital Sytems (ADS) was a great amp at the time.



Side by side????? where were you even contemplating that? the back shelf is only like 16 inches wide so they cant go side by side there unless you build a little shelf to extend it but then you give up the t-top well. You could !back- seat but thats not my cup o tea.