Is my key screwed up or what?
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TECH Resident
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Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Clear Lake, Texas
Is my key screwed up or what? for the past week or so my key hasnt been able to start my car the first couple times.
ill sit in the car, put key in, turn to acc, try to crank and nothing.
take the key out and try repeat this a few more times until it finally cranks.
everything works but the car will not try to start. lights/stereo/windows/everything works fine but the car wont even attempt to crank.
it doesn't happen everytime so im thinking it might be something wrong with the key itself. maybe the "chip"?
ill sit in the car, put key in, turn to acc, try to crank and nothing.
take the key out and try repeat this a few more times until it finally cranks.
everything works but the car will not try to start. lights/stereo/windows/everything works fine but the car wont even attempt to crank.
it doesn't happen everytime so im thinking it might be something wrong with the key itself. maybe the "chip"?
I had a similar problem in a way, my car wouldnt start. Light's, radio & etc. all turned on but car wouldnt start. Security Light was on, tried everything in th e manual several time's, and nothing worked. Hell it wouldnt even crank or attempt to start period. Took it in to the local dealership, ended up having my entire ignition replaced.
However i believe what happened to mine was at the time. I was attempting to install a Bazooka BassTube. When i disconnected the battery cable's, i left the key in the ignition. So i believe once i did that, it just erased the chip or whatever within the key, and threw it all off.
Since your's doe's happen to start up after several trie's, take your car in and have them check the key, starter & ignition. Im sure it would have to be 1 of the 3, cant think of anything else that wouldnt start the car besides a dead battery, but we know that's not the case here.
However i believe what happened to mine was at the time. I was attempting to install a Bazooka BassTube. When i disconnected the battery cable's, i left the key in the ignition. So i believe once i did that, it just erased the chip or whatever within the key, and threw it all off.
Since your's doe's happen to start up after several trie's, take your car in and have them check the key, starter & ignition. Im sure it would have to be 1 of the 3, cant think of anything else that wouldnt start the car besides a dead battery, but we know that's not the case here.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,330
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
First, try your spare key. Also, clean the contacts on the key with a pencil eraser and some rubbing alcohol and spray some contact cleaner into the key cylinder. Dirt and grime can cause the resistor to read incorrectly and cause the security problem.
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Grab onto your ***. My car did the exact same thing, sometimes it would crank then start, other times it wouldn't even crank but all the accessories would work. My friend owns a custom sterio install shop and is a genius w/ electronics. He came over to the parking lot where i was stranded and checked my car out. He suggested the key and if not that it would be the VATS system, so i had the key checked. It was fine so i had it towed to a Chevy dealership, and no **** it was the VATS key reader in the steering column that was bad. They just go bad i guess, my car only has 50k on it, so i was pissed at this point. The moral of my story is bite the bullet have your VATS system checked first before you buy a starter and a bunch of other stuff. My keyreader was like 60$ and 240$ in labor, gotta love dealership prices.
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Verdad Gallardo Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,330
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Okay, a little terminolgy correction here...
There is no "VATS key reader" in the steering column. The ignition cylinder has two contacts in it that touch the sides of the resistor pellet on the key. Those contacts are connected by wires in the steering column to the BCM (Body Control Module) under the dash behind the glovebox. The BCM is responsible for many body-related functions including VATS, vehicle anti-theft alarm, courtesy lights, power door locks, etc. The BCM reads the resistance from the key pellet and determines whether the correct key is in the ignition.
It sounds like the dealer replaced your ignition cylinder - the price of the part is about right although the labor seems somewhat high. Unless the ignition cylinder contacts are worn and not making a good connection, it is possible that cleaning will solve the problem. Spray some contact cleaner (available from Radio Shack) into the ignition cylinder then work the key in and out to rub off any grime. Clean the key and let everything dry (a couple of minutes) then see if that solved the problem.
There is no "VATS key reader" in the steering column. The ignition cylinder has two contacts in it that touch the sides of the resistor pellet on the key. Those contacts are connected by wires in the steering column to the BCM (Body Control Module) under the dash behind the glovebox. The BCM is responsible for many body-related functions including VATS, vehicle anti-theft alarm, courtesy lights, power door locks, etc. The BCM reads the resistance from the key pellet and determines whether the correct key is in the ignition.
It sounds like the dealer replaced your ignition cylinder - the price of the part is about right although the labor seems somewhat high. Unless the ignition cylinder contacts are worn and not making a good connection, it is possible that cleaning will solve the problem. Spray some contact cleaner (available from Radio Shack) into the ignition cylinder then work the key in and out to rub off any grime. Clean the key and let everything dry (a couple of minutes) then see if that solved the problem.
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 272
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From: South Carolina
what if the motor will turn over, but won't fire? i've noticed over the past couple months that the start is kind of weak when it does and now sometimes it doesn't start at all. it will just turn over. and even then sometimes it will have a choppy idle and the rpms and oil pressure fluctuate til it chokes out. when it does this i can't even bring up the rpms by using the throttle. ya think this is more of an opti problem? does the fact that i'm using an obd1 in an originally obd2 car have anything to do with it? thanks.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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From: harrisburg, pa
first of all.. if the problem is in your key or ignition not completing the circuit, when you try to turn it over the security light will be on.. and if thats the problem.. Search my posts dating back a couple months and youll find an easy explationation with diagram of how to fix it by wiring resistors.. If its the starter or something then just have it texted at advance or a similar place i believe you do have to take it out of the car first but its a piece of cake.
If there is a key problem, will the car attempt to crank at all? I see that you guys are saying yours haven't, but is it possible that it will? Or does a faulty chip mean that it won't allow it to crank?
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 43
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I had the same problem with mine. The problem was with the two little orange wires that run down the steering column to under the dash. They ended up getting broken from tilting the column up and down as I get in and out of the car. First thing is track down those two little wires ( both orange) just at the base of the column. You can cut them and re-splice (when checking resistance they must be out of the circuit), or find and un-plug the connector. get a multi-meter and check the resistance across those two wires with your key in the ignition and turn to run. It should be the same as when you measure the key itself, or within a few ohms. If that is the problem you can either replace the two wires(PITA) or go to a local electronics shop and either buy a resistor at the same value as your key or get a potientometer and measure it to exactly the same as the key and tape it up or whatever method you choose to keep it from changing and wire it in to the wires running under the dash. You can choose any way you want. Its just however much you care about it being "rigged". But mine works fine, just don't have the security of only my original key working. Sorry so long...hope it helps
Here is the pic
http://shbox.com/1/vats_bypass.jpg
Your wires might not be orange...I just noticed your year.
Here is the pic
http://shbox.com/1/vats_bypass.jpg
Your wires might not be orange...I just noticed your year.
Last edited by FallenZ28; Feb 25, 2008 at 06:02 PM.
Hey guys, I am having the same problem. I went about and bought all the tools that are required. I tested the OHMS of my key and it said 770. I don't know if that is on GM's list of resistance. From what I read it is not. Does that mean my key is bad? Please let me know. I have my father bringing me the spare so hopefully that will solve the problem.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,330
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Are you sure you have the scale correct? If it was 7700 ohms then it would be within the tolerance of one of the fifteen standard values. Otherwise your key is bad.
Ya, I'm pretty sure that it said 770 OHMS. The thing is that this key has never been used during the life of the car. I am the first owner to use this key so maybe that plays a factor.
As far as the bypass goes. Do you hook the line back up to where the orange line to the harness with the VATS, or do I put in the transistors and leave the orange wire disconnected?
As far as the bypass goes. Do you hook the line back up to where the orange line to the harness with the VATS, or do I put in the transistors and leave the orange wire disconnected?
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,330
Likes: 346
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Sounds like it was a spare key made from the wrong blank since there is no 770 ohm pellet used in f-bodies.
There isn't an orange wire involved at all. There are two wires (white with black and purple with white) that are inside an orange sheath at the base of the steering column. You want to disconnect the two wires (so they don't connect to the ignition cylinder) and then connect the two wires together using the correct resistor. This bypasses the ignition cylinder and makes the system think the correct key is always in the ignition.
There isn't an orange wire involved at all. There are two wires (white with black and purple with white) that are inside an orange sheath at the base of the steering column. You want to disconnect the two wires (so they don't connect to the ignition cylinder) and then connect the two wires together using the correct resistor. This bypasses the ignition cylinder and makes the system think the correct key is always in the ignition.
Alright, so my father brings me my spare and I go out to start it. No luck. Same security crap. So now I know that it is the VATS and not the key. That means that it is 7700 OHMS. I am going to solder in the resistors when I get back from class.