ultraz

iTrader: (4)

You have failed to clearly understand what I was saying. Let me explain it a little better to you. I said a 15" woofer will not reproduce frequencies over 50hz as clear as a similar smaller woofer. I did not say that 50hz is where my low pass filter is.

Please explain to me why people do not use 15" full range speakers in their cars, if they can reproduce the audible frequency range than their smaller counterparts. The comparison of studio speakers is irrelevant, Besides most of those are only used for a very slim frequency range,in which case they have smaller woofers as well.

bad93snake

SeanH thats not what i was saying exactly...

I think the main problem with where this thread is headed is we're all arguing different points.

Cars are the worst possible place to try to accurately reproduce a "reference" sound. Too many angles and surface reflections...and HORRIBLE placement. A studio is set-up with one purpose in mind, to give the best possible stage, a car is not...the audio guys are one of the last groups to get a car in the r&d stage...You CAN NOT get a perfect sq set-up in a car, its impossible.

Now in a perfect world would i run 15"s...probably. BUT Id also have everything it took to reproduce all frequencies. from 10mm tweets to 18" subs and every driver size in-between. But in the real world its not possible.

My main point was your average customer it not going to want custom door panels, custom kicks, custom a pillar enclosures, 3-way set-ups, equal length path length interior set-ups, a 30+ band EQ or multiple subs in front and rear locations because some or all of those it what it takes to even get close to a "reference" or true SQ sound.

BUT in MY OPINION (theyre like ******** ya know) a good 6.5" Component or 3-Way front stage, MAYBE a 6.5"-8" Midbass and a set of 10"s, and some staging/time correction is the easiest/cheapest and most effective way to get your average guy close. I find that 10"s leave less of a gap in the range than 12"s or bigger, you can cheat em up a bit and cheat a good set of 6.5"s and/or midbasses down enough to get pretty damn close.

But i still stick to my opinion that 15"+s can cycle and respond like a good 10"....



And last, Im enjoying this thread and you guys that do know what youre talking about. I love people that have different opinions, its what keeps the 12 volt industry goin! COMPETITION, INOVATION AND DEDICATION!!! Much love to all my audiophile brothers out there, and once again i love all you LS1 guys...so much better that all my old Mustang forums!!!

nemss1

stock monsoon midbass/subs (whatever u wanna call em) are good enough for me....considering i drag race and dont need weight i can live without

the blazer is getting an 800 watt system tho

Dragwheelz.com

iTrader: (10)

Can we talk more often?????? I love speaking with someone thats thinks the same things i do.

Seanh

I agree that a 15 can respond just like a 10, been saying throughout the whole thread I don't however agree that the 10 will leave less of a gap than a 12" or bigger, it just isn't true. Your sub setup has to play nice from the lowest notes up to around 40hz and then roll off. For those frequencies cone size is the best way to achieve this.


Umm, 50hz should be played by your midbass not your sub, in particular for an SQ setup. If your low pass frequency is much higher than 50hz you shouldn't comment on SQ setups.
*not sure where I commented on studio setups, but your analogy to a small frequency range is spot on and counteracts what you are saying otherwise

One other thing, fundamentally your argument is flawed. This sub plays real nice all the way to 1200hz!
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1730
I realize it isn't a 15, but I have no experience with their 15 so I didn't think it would be fair to comment. A justifiable guess would say that getting to an octave lower than 1200hz (600) shouldn't be a problem though. If you don't believe me do some searching on the net, lots of people use that sub (and many others) in home audio speakers as a midbass/sub. In a car of course I'd only use them if I could run a pair and put them in my doors which address your full range question, well not really but at least it covers all of the sub-bass and mid-bass regions. Running a driver that large full range will cause some serious beaming issues and not something anyone will recommend.

bad93snake

Haha, anytime!!!

I joined this forum to learn from you guys about LS engines and these cars, so Ill contribute what i can...

bad93snake

SeanH- If customers would leave my f'in gain sets alone i agree but being that most people still think they can out tune me i think 10"s are more on the safe side...and for some reason i cant convince most customers to go for midbasses...they cant understand the advantage of a 6.5" MIDBASS DRIVER/WOOFER over just a 6.5" Component set...

Until they hear my car! HAHAHA

Seanh

I personally don't use component sets period. Active or bust. Midbass isn't a problem in my Silverado, although I always crave more. Part of the reason I joined was to search a bit about a CTS-V as doing a 3 way front with an 8" midbass, 3" mid, and a tweet is nearly a pre-requisite for me in my next car. So much so that a portion of my car shopping is based on being able to integrate the stereo. Currently I am reseaching ways to integrate "nicely" with the stock headunit while not using a clean sweep/360.2 since they don't have enough processing for me.

To keep this on topic and explain why I have diverted the thread so much to discuss midbass is that fundamentally is the weak point in nearly everyone's install. Having a super sub and just some comps up front is going to bias your system towards bass, now I realize that is what most people like but from a diehard SQ'er that isn't for me. There are no issues and tons of benefits for using a 15" driver for a sub in an SQ setup. As soon as I get my car, I'd be glad to demo this for anyone on the site and guarantee that you won't ever think a large diameter driver can't perform. In my silvy I currently have a 12" which blends perfectly with the 7" mids I have up front.

Dragwheelz.com

iTrader: (10)

Im serious, Not everyone gets it or is passionate about it. They depend on what there buddy at best buy or CC says is the best. Or what someone tells them is the best.

Ive been in this industry for 15+ years. And get fed up at times.

And Yes, Gains, Eq and Xover settings, There Buddies know tuning better then we do.

Vicinity

iTrader: (7)

Wow, this thread got so much deeper in discussion than I thought, after the 5-6th post I didn't understand a damn thing you guys were talking about.

bad93snake

Haha, hear ya...

Theyre buddies and friends and buddies cousins ALWAYS know better!!! Damn all those years of bustin my *** and the few hours i spent takin the MECP and First Class where for nothing!!!!

bad93snake

Yeah....sorry bout that we went and got technical on yo asses! haha

zapp168

iTrader: (7)

I have two 12's with 800 watts, I set the low pass toward the high side, it is somewhat overkill so I leave the sub output on 50% and I leave the bass set for 0 or 1. I have heard so-called "right" and so-called "wrong". There is no right or wrong, only what you like to hear in your car. No "expert" can get inside your head. It is not a matter of "getting it" it comes down to what an individual prefers. I have had pro's build and tune my systems in the past only to have me set it to where I want it to be, and no, I am no more wrong than someone who prefers a black car to a red car, plus the bass sounds different when I am cranking Van halen and the guy next to me is cranking Lil Wayne.

bad93snake

Well said zapp168!!!

It all comes down to personal preference...someone could get in my car and tell me it sounds like ****, and guess what it just might to them. But if im happy thats all that matters!

Seanh

I agree completely, the issue that got me to respond was the use of the term SQ. Whatever you like is great and that is exactly what should be in your ride, but once you start talking about building an SQ system there are certain parameters that only make logical sense to follow.

And snake you are spot on, lots of people get into my truck and say they don't like the "lack" of bass. I could give a crap less as it wasn't meant to be a bass machine but a dedicated SQ install. Their next comment is usually on how unbelievably clear it is, but that they don't understand my bass settings. A quick whack on the gain **** from the minimum to up a bit puts a smile on their face but sours mine. Definitely subjective and no one should ever put in their car what they don't want.

Dragwheelz.com

iTrader: (10)

Thats 1 reason a majority of the times i Forward fire and seal the woofers into the car.

Makes a Huge Musical Diffrence on low end.

bad93snake

Yeah, I'm running the Pioneer AVH-P7800DVD right now so I have several "tunes" saved...my SQ or "reference" tune, and a SPLish tune...really all it is, is a big bump up in bass for customers that dont respect anything but huge SLP...

Twotonefreak

iTrader: (11)

Most folks think you've got to have huge bass for it sound really good. IMO nothing beats a killer set of 2 or 3 ways with some awesome mid bass.

Best system we've done to date IMO (we don't do many big systems)
08 1500 crew cab chevy:

DynAudio 2 ways in both front and rear doors, DynAudio 9" sub in the center console, DynAudio 5-1/4" and 1" tweeter in the dash as the center channel. Digital Design 3500 10" under rear seat and the gain set low, all of it powered by Digital Design amps. H/Unit was a Pioneer Z2 with a Dobly Digital 5.1 processor. All I can say is HOLY ****! I've sold more systems off that truck than any other one that I've done.

infinite_one

iTrader: (3)

i used to have many crazy loud 2+ sub set ups included 3 15"l7s and used to love it but i decided about a year ago i didnt wanna go def lol then downgraded to 2 12's now im on a single ten its all about clarity for me but you gotta have some good bass

WS6Drop

iTrader: (10)

Things get much more complicated if you go fully active without passives of any kind. Midbass will be the hardest thing to recreate IMO.

I prefer 10 or 12 max sub size.