Superman09

iTrader: (65)

Hello, well my minimal mods are in sig. I want to be in the 11's by next summer...my goal. I am getting a stall, shift kit, cooler, LTs with true duals to replace my borla, and ls6 intake over the winter. I am also ordering a cam and having that put in next summer due to labor costs and me not knowing anyone to help with install. My question is..... How big of a stall and cam will i have to go to get into the 11's. I planned a fuddle 3600 or 3800 at 2.5 str and F13 cam considering this is a Daily Driver but i doubt that will give me enough. Whats your suggestion. Ill put some nitto 555r's on my stock 16x8's. prolly 245/50/16 or soemthin around there. Think that iwll give me best results for tires for now. I have some suspension done. All is appreciated. How big do i need to go

Bryan @ Speed Inc.

iTrader: (19)

a lot of cars are runnin' 11's w/ stock internals. your mods should put you well into the 11's. if you have decent suspension and a good tire you'll be running low 11's. put heads on it, get a gear, and you might go 10's. i highly suggest you go with a different tire than the nittos. i say put some slicks on your stock 16" wheels.

Bryan @ Speed Inc.

iTrader: (19)

good daily driven cams are 222-228 duration cams. a lot of guys will tell you that they daily drive they're huge monster cams... but if you want to be comfortable and still get good gas mileage, in that dur range is what you're looking for. many guys have gone mid 11's w/ those smaller cams. i think a stall in the 3500 range is good for your needs.

Superman09

iTrader: (65)

Are you kidding me. My mods now prolly cant break 13's even with slicks and every suspension part. Thanks for your help but i odnt think your corrrect on that. Not to bash but any one else got input for size of cam and stall for 11's?

blkZ28spt

You think that

Quote:

FTRA, Borla, Underdrive pully, Granatelli MAF, Hotchkis STB and SFC's, Privat 18's, Eibach Pro Kit, 2" drop

is enough to run 11's, and low 11's with suspension and tire? What have you been smoking?

The average bolt-on LS1 wont' run 11's. The average LS1 F-body needs all power bolt-ons, nice converter (A4) or clutch/rear end (M6), and decent weight reduction/suspension mods to reach 11's. Unfortunately the average guy doesn't put money into building from the bottom up (I myself and guilty of this) and therefore doesn't run 11's until the cam swap.

Anything from a 3500 with an F13 to a 4,000 with a G5X3/4 or MS3 sized cam, depending on what exactly you want should do nicely.

NXZ28

iTrader: (45)

If you want drag radials then I would go with the BFG drag radial. A 3600 converter with a 224 cam with around .580 lift. I am running a Comp Cam XER series. The only set back to this cam is that it is very hard on the valve springs. Get your launch technique down and you will be in the 11s. Just don't forget to have the computer tuned for all the mods. Good luck.

blkZ28spt

Drag radials I'd go nittos. If it's a dedicated track tire I'd just go straight to ET streets, personally. BFG drag radials are good at the track, but ET streets should hook better and nittos will far outlast BFG's on the street. The M/T drag radials, for all practical purposes, should be treated like ET streets as well, IMO.

black02-z28

iTrader: (8)

for your

The average A4 LS1 has no problem running high 11's, full weight.

Here are fifty LS1's that run better than 11.83:
Top fifty bolt on cars
And there are many more in the 11.83-11.99 range not on the list.

Here is how you do it:
- Big Stall, 4000-4200, I like Yank, you want a high STR, I run 2.7
- SFC's, LCA's, and reloc brackets in the bottom hole.
- Lid/cat back (or cut out)
- 15" ET Streets or ET DR's, skinnies on the front.
- Drop the front sway and spare tire, pull the seats if you want to get a little lighter.
- Some tuning on the shift points helps, Predator or HP Tuners.
- Underdrive pulley
- LT headers with ORY
- Free mods
- That should be good for 12.0 in bad air, high 11's in good. I know of four SI cars with that formula and they are all there.
- To see low 11's you need to lighten the car, I haven't done that yet.

I have added QA1 shocks and drag springs along with a Torque arm and k-member, but all of that is not needed. To get there. You are rolling dice on the 10 bolt, but lots of guys do it. The plus is that they are cheap if it blows!

Good luck!

Ed

blkZ28spt

Technically what you said was that:

FTRA
Underdrive Pulley
Cat-back
MAF
STB and SFC
2" drop and 18" wheels (bad and bad)

should put him well into the 11's.

NOT gonna happen. I don't know if you were counting the longtubes, mild converter (3600-3800), nittos and LS6 intake he has planned or not, but I'll assume you did and just mis-spoke a little.

However, I don't think that quoting the Top 50 list really backs your argument for the "average" LS1. How many bolt-on LS1's are there on this site and you are quoting the TOP 50. Sure it can be done, but the average doesn't run 11's SI.

blkZ28spt

I'll compare my setup to what you outlined:

4000 stall, 2.5 str

SFC

16" ET streets

All that and a little bit more.

Done. Full professional dyno tune.

Check. (SLP)

Headers and duals.

CAI, ported TB.

Add the TSP MS3. (237/242 .603/.609 113) and that's what I have. Makes 385 rwhp. Only thing from your list I'm missing is LCA's but add CAI, ported TB and a cam. (assumed LS6 intake is included for older cars like mine) With a DA of +650 or so, on a 1.642 60' I ran 11.92.

What happened? I thought I had an 11 second car even without the cam?




Just an example of what I believe to be more along the lines of "average".

Thoughts??

black02-z28

iTrader: (8)

Actually what I said was:

- Big Stall, 4000-4200, I like Yank, you want a high STR, I run 2.7
- SFC's, LCA's, and reloc brackets in the bottom hole.
- Lid/cat back (or cut out)
- 15" ET Streets or ET DR's, skinnies on the front.
- Drop the front sway and spare tire, pull the seats if you want to get a little lighter.
- Some tuning on the shift points helps, Predator or HP Tuners.
- Underdrive pulley
- LT headers with ORY
- Free mods
- That should be good for 12.0 in bad air, high 11's in good. I know of four SI cars with that formula and they are all there.

In his specific case he needs to get rid of the 18's and get 15's, Ditch the plan for the 3600 and go bigger, and get a bigger STR. I have seen lowered cars do it, but stock springs are indeed better. However that is why I said relocs. He certainly needs them if he is lowered.

I only listed the top 50 because that is what is on the list. There are hundreds in the 11.99 and under range SI. 11's SI is not a big deal around here, been done many times. I personally have helped build 4 SI cars for different people here. All 4 went 11's with those mods. It is a proven formula, not a secret, or a "freak."

Here is my opinion and how I built my car: Set it up to run 11's SI first. Get it dead hooking and built right before you add any HP. then add HP and run 10's or really low 11's. Of course you can always just add a cam, but you might still get spanked by my little SI car. The key is 60 foot.




11.73 video

Ed

black02-z28

iTrader: (8)

My thoughts on your specific setup:
60 foot is too high, needs to be down a tenth. One tenth in the 60 gets you Two in the ET.

So:
- Get 15" tires with skinnies
- LCA's help ALOT, the extra HP you have only makes the stockers flex worse. Relocs give you a longer lever for more bite.
- Since you have the extra HP you can also use an adjustable torque arm, make sure the pinion angle is on.
- Also in your specific case QA1's will help the weight transfer and a right rear air bag is a cheap addition.

I had to send my SS4200 in because it lost the lockup. Two weeks ago I ran a ST3500 in +2000 DA with a 1.60 60 ft and 11.98. I also think the 2.5 STR might be hurting you some.

Just my opinion, like I said, nothing freaky about my car. I dynoed 346 RWHP. When they tuned your did you have any work done on the shift points, torque management, etc? I think you should be able to do much better than 11.9X with that.

And oh, 2 of the SI cars that I worked on still had LS1 intakes, not LS6 and ran 11.98 in about +1000 DA.

blkZ28spt

Actually, no, go back up. The very first post you made, second in the thread, was that he should be well into the 11's with what he had. This was well before you posted that list, and all he has is

FTRA
Underdrive Pulley
Cat-back
MAF
STB and SFC
2" drop and 18" wheels (bad and bad)

That is and was why I threw the flag. I obviously wouldn't throw the flag on the list you created later.


It's right here.

It's apparent now that you do know what you are talking about, though.

black02-z28

iTrader: (8)

Ah, I understand the confusion, but that post was made by imslow. I am black02-z28.

And thanks for the compliment, I am pretty big on the whole 60 ft thing. In actuality, that is all I worried about with my car, I focused on getting it down, everything else fell in place. I certainly did not invent the formula, Wilwaxu was one of the first to show me how much fun a SI car can be.

Here on the east coast I race with eastern f-body. We have a stock internal class that is some of the most competitive F-body racing you'll ever see. I almost did heads/cam, but decided to stay one more year SI. Right now I am #1 in points, with only one more race to go.

So anyway, just sounds like we are disagreeing over "average LS1", in my experience I have seen 100% of 4 cars with those mods alone do an 11 sec pass, some better than others (mine never leaves 11's, my buddy with the '98 is 11.98-12.1x depending.) It is obvious you know your stuff too, just maybe have not met as many SI guys as me. Of course, your performance may vary with these same mods.

Here is his 1BAD98LS1 (PT 4000) vs mine, both 11.99
twin 11.99 passes

Ed
(I don't have the highest post count because I made a new account last fall rather than transfer over my old info)

blkZ28spt

Dang, that wasn't your post.

The confusion happened because I called the obvious on imslow and you called bs on my bs, probably only because you caught my extra statement about the average LS1. I didn't realize that you weren't the person I called bs on originally. Lots of bsing going on here.

It's apparent that I need to put something, anything into my suspension and get my 60' even lower. You still have a higher mph than me too. Hopefully I can get my ET down at least a little bit more in the crisp fall air. I've seen the twin 11.99 video before, good stuff.

I think the problem with what I consider average is that the average SI LS1 owner doesn't spend as much as they should on suspension. Myself included. It's just not as fun to build from the foundation up, even though it really is the way to go.

Superman09

iTrader: (65)

Hey black02-Z28... I need some suggestions from you.... Here is my plan......

LT's with true duals
3800 stall 2.5 str....Due to nitrous in near future.....sound like a good choice? Shift kit, cooler, gauge
LS6 intake
MS3 cam
100 shot

Now i need to do osmething with suspension. All i have right now is SFC's, STB, and the lwoering springs which i need to ditch. For a kid on a budget......what all do you think ishould get for suspension to put me mid 11's or as fast as i can get with cam only?

Also what should i do for tires for the track? I have my 18's... junk for racing and stock 16x8's. Should i jsut throw some ET streets or nittos o nthe 16's and call it good or should i really invest in some prostars or soemthing else along that line with skinnies? Kind with no requirements to modify car to get them to fit and price...? Sorry for the mispelling here... im in a rush. Later

blkZ28spt

Best place to start with suspension is LCA's and relocation brackets. Suppose to make a large difference for not a lot of money. Torque arm is good to have too. Dont forget to remove the front sway bar.

Superman09

iTrader: (65)

Hmm, k so LCA's relocation bracket, torque arm....adjustable or not needed? Panhard rod? Should i get some QA1's or what for springs? I want to have good springs for dragging but dont want to lsoe my sleek street look with the 18's...? Any suggestions for this? Thats my main concern.... springs for dragging and ride height.... than i can jsut add some parts.....What does removing the rear sway bar do? Thanks..... WHat to do for drag rims/tires? jsut mount up o nmy 16s or get some prostars? i odnt want to mod the car for wheels at all.

Superman09

iTrader: (65)

2 more posts to go Austin!~! for the big 4 g's

blkZ28spt

That would be the front sway bar. It takes about 10-12 pounds off the nose of the car and helps weight transfer. Turns will be a little more soggy, but it's not too bad. I could feel/see the nose of my car lift up more than previously when I removed mine.

For drag wheels you idealy want some nice, lightweight 15" or so wheels with slicks out back and skinnies up front. Budget minded people can simply buy some old wheels and mount slicks/drag radials on them and install them at the track. I have ET streets mounted on an old/heavy/ugly set of wheels I use at the track and occassionally on the street....for now.