built tranny viberations? help?
03-17-2009, 02:43 AM
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built tranny viberations? help? So after limping my car around for about 4 month with no 2nd gear i had the trans built with a 2800 stall and WOW it woke the car up alot but right after i did i nice lil punch with about 3/4 throttle theres a viberation coming from the trans at 3k, if i slowly get into it......its not to bad....worse if i hammer down on it , and i also put it in neutral and right around 3 k is were it starts anyone have any ideas or am i just being paranoid he also did a trans mount to while he was in there but i duno if that would make any differance
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03-17-2009, 07:47 PM
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If it vibrates in neutral when it gets to around 3000 rpm you can eliminate the driveshaft as a possibility becase it wont be turning ! I would expect bent flex plate or converter balance to be an issue . Unless the input housing had a chunk missing there isn't enough mass to create a vibration inside the transmission .
03-17-2009, 08:10 PM
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I've got a similar issue also with a fully built trans and have had it for a while. But I've changed converters to a yank pt3800 still same vibration,
got rid of the prothane mount which reduced how much vibes I can feel greatly but is just masking it cuz its still there,
switched flexplates from one apparently perfectly good sfi plate to another brand and its still there In park above 2500rpm's and while driving, gets worse the faster I go.
So my question is what else is spinning in there that can cause a vibration!?
I've had this issue for over a year and a few months ago I was getting on it, spun near the top of second and instead of going into third something internal let go hit rev limiter and I flared out the tabs on my reverse input drum which caused them to score and ruin the beast sunshell,
shop replaced the drum and sunshell they said, picked it up and the vibe is still there with no change... it seems worse in 3rd gear more than any other and is best in od but is present in all gears...
The only other thing I think it could be since I've replaced everything else would be something internal in the front half of the trans thats spinning in park, or my engine balancer maybe which is stock and untouched so not likely imo?
So tranny guru's what else spins in park?
car is going back in the shop tomorrow and I'd like an Idea of what to ask them to look at because they seem to be scratching their heads on this one as well...
got rid of the prothane mount which reduced how much vibes I can feel greatly but is just masking it cuz its still there,
switched flexplates from one apparently perfectly good sfi plate to another brand and its still there In park above 2500rpm's and while driving, gets worse the faster I go.
So my question is what else is spinning in there that can cause a vibration!?
I've had this issue for over a year and a few months ago I was getting on it, spun near the top of second and instead of going into third something internal let go hit rev limiter and I flared out the tabs on my reverse input drum which caused them to score and ruin the beast sunshell,
shop replaced the drum and sunshell they said, picked it up and the vibe is still there with no change... it seems worse in 3rd gear more than any other and is best in od but is present in all gears...
The only other thing I think it could be since I've replaced everything else would be something internal in the front half of the trans thats spinning in park, or my engine balancer maybe which is stock and untouched so not likely imo?
So tranny guru's what else spins in park?
car is going back in the shop tomorrow and I'd like an Idea of what to ask them to look at because they seem to be scratching their heads on this one as well...
03-17-2009, 08:26 PM
#11
I've got a similar issue also with a fully built trans and have had it for a while. But I've changed converters to a yank pt3800 still same vibration,
got rid of the prothane mount which reduced how much vibes I can feel greatly but is just masking it cuz its still there,
switched flexplates from one apparently perfectly good sfi plate to another brand and its still there In park above 2500rpm's and while driving, gets worse the faster I go.
So my question is what else is spinning in there that can cause a vibration!?
I've had this issue for over a year and a few months ago I was getting on it, spun near the top of second and instead of going into third something internal let go hit rev limiter and I flared out the tabs on my reverse input drum which caused them to score and ruin the beast sunshell,
shop replaced the drum and sunshell they said, picked it up and the vibe is still there with no change... it seems worse in 3rd gear more than any other and is best in od but is present in all gears...
The only other thing I think it could be since I've replaced everything else would be something internal in the front half of the trans thats spinning in park, or my engine balancer maybe which is stock and untouched so not likely imo?
So tranny guru's what else spins in park?
car is going back in the shop tomorrow and I'd like an Idea of what to ask them to look at because they seem to be scratching their heads on this one as well...
got rid of the prothane mount which reduced how much vibes I can feel greatly but is just masking it cuz its still there,
switched flexplates from one apparently perfectly good sfi plate to another brand and its still there In park above 2500rpm's and while driving, gets worse the faster I go.
So my question is what else is spinning in there that can cause a vibration!?
I've had this issue for over a year and a few months ago I was getting on it, spun near the top of second and instead of going into third something internal let go hit rev limiter and I flared out the tabs on my reverse input drum which caused them to score and ruin the beast sunshell,
shop replaced the drum and sunshell they said, picked it up and the vibe is still there with no change... it seems worse in 3rd gear more than any other and is best in od but is present in all gears...
The only other thing I think it could be since I've replaced everything else would be something internal in the front half of the trans thats spinning in park, or my engine balancer maybe which is stock and untouched so not likely imo?
So tranny guru's what else spins in park?
car is going back in the shop tomorrow and I'd like an Idea of what to ask them to look at because they seem to be scratching their heads on this one as well...
Also you might try unbolting the converter from the flex plate pushing it back into the trans and start car and try to duplicate vibration this would help to eliminate any other source first,
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03-17-2009, 08:30 PM
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In park or neutral the flexplate , torque converter , and the input clutch housing are turning . The input assembly has three sets of clutches an a sprag assemly in it . Thre is not usually a balance problem with them unless they are damaged in some way , as in cracked or broken . There could be a crossleak in the vb or gaskets that may have a clutch on that shouldn't be .
If I remember right the 700r4 trans had an issue with a valve that would stick and bring the reverse input clutch on in park which would cause it to turn at the low gear ratio of 3:06 to 1 . If the engine was reved to 3000 rpm that would turn the drum at 9180 rpm .That would cause the tangs to sling out and hit the case . I have been a transmission rebuilder since 1982 and have only seen a couple of those !!
The mount is not going to be the cause of a vibration , unless there is a difference in height . It will make the vibration more pronounced because it removes the cushion effect of the softer mount !
If I remember right the 700r4 trans had an issue with a valve that would stick and bring the reverse input clutch on in park which would cause it to turn at the low gear ratio of 3:06 to 1 . If the engine was reved to 3000 rpm that would turn the drum at 9180 rpm .That would cause the tangs to sling out and hit the case . I have been a transmission rebuilder since 1982 and have only seen a couple of those !!
The mount is not going to be the cause of a vibration , unless there is a difference in height . It will make the vibration more pronounced because it removes the cushion effect of the softer mount !
03-19-2009, 07:41 PM
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okay so to update Car is in the trans shop still talked to him today and with the trans out of the car the vibration is still there 
And like I said both the flexplate and converter have been changed with no change in vibration and now with the trans out that pretty much eliminates the input drum as the culprit so where does this leave me now? a motor vibration possibly? either the balancer or crank bearing? no clue what to look at really, any advice on checking these items while the trans is out would be appreciated...
On a seperate issue my foreward piston was cracked which I guess applies the coasting clutches? he just had this same issue twice in a row on a 97 maggie vette, what would cause this foreward piston to crack Too high of line pressure ect.? And is there a way to prevent this from happening again?
Also just a shot in the dark here he says the piston comes from back east and cant get one in till monday at the earliest, This leaves me without my only means of transport all weekend, anyone know of a faster way to get one to modesto Ca? lol
And like I said both the flexplate and converter have been changed with no change in vibration and now with the trans out that pretty much eliminates the input drum as the culprit so where does this leave me now? a motor vibration possibly? either the balancer or crank bearing? no clue what to look at really, any advice on checking these items while the trans is out would be appreciated... On a seperate issue my foreward piston was cracked which I guess applies the coasting clutches? he just had this same issue twice in a row on a 97 maggie vette, what would cause this foreward piston to crack Too high of line pressure ect.? And is there a way to prevent this from happening again?
Also just a shot in the dark here he says the piston comes from back east and cant get one in till monday at the earliest, This leaves me without my only means of transport all weekend, anyone know of a faster way to get one to modesto Ca? lol
03-19-2009, 08:19 PM
#14
Well unless hes using the sleeved input drum he could just use the molded steel pistons and elimnate that issue for good. They should be readily available anywhere.
Also Circle D makes a billet peice for that if he is using the sleeve.
Also Circle D makes a billet peice for that if he is using the sleeve.
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03-19-2009, 09:12 PM
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Thanks Performabuilt! Damn you know your **** and always seem to be the first to reply... I believe it may be sleeved but not 100% and he's closed now, but will def call him in the morning and question that...
And while I got ya here on yet another issue lol. The whole reason the car went back in the shop is He cant seem to get 4th gear to work correctly and keep working, I posted a thread a couple months ago about "stock servo working but billit servo not" Dont know if you remember? but I cant find it with the search so here's the deal...
Ever since I flared the reverse input drum He cant get 4th to work without it slipping, then eventually it stops working (like 2 days to 2 weeks this last time) and just stays in 3rd.
The last time I picked it up he switched from a superior billet servo to a sonnax billet servo which I guess is more like the stock style and as soon as i drove it I knew it still wasn't right.
For one thing you cant even feel the 3-4 shift anymore, then in 4th with the converter locked when I roll into the throttle just enough to keep it locked the rpm's still slip up 200-500 rpms initially, and holding it there it seems like it slips a little then grabs and pull's the rpm's back down, then slips a little again then grabs and pull em back down. all this while I know my converter is still locked which is a 6 month old yank pt3800...
Also the trans wont make the 2nd to 3rd gear shift at WOT or even 80-90% without me lifting for almost a full second, it just bounces the rev limiter until I lift.
I've only done one WOT 4th gear pull to see what 4th would do without the converter locked and there was a little slip maybe slipping up then back down 100rpm's or so a few times before I had to lift, not much but the tach was def going back and fourth a little...
Now my builder has no clue why 4th wont work correctly anymore and has told me this, It worked fine for 25k miles or so with his performance build before the reverse input drum issue So idk... He said he was going to try increasing the size of whatever valvebody passages would get more fluid to 4th without flooding it I guess, I dont really know **** about them but I'm thinking If they didnt need to be bigger before and worked then why do they need to be now? I'm gonna try to get him to give you a call tomorrow if you feel you may be able to add some insight to this issue??? P.S. Sorry for the long *** post lol
And while I got ya here on yet another issue lol. The whole reason the car went back in the shop is He cant seem to get 4th gear to work correctly and keep working, I posted a thread a couple months ago about "stock servo working but billit servo not" Dont know if you remember? but I cant find it with the search so here's the deal...
Ever since I flared the reverse input drum He cant get 4th to work without it slipping, then eventually it stops working (like 2 days to 2 weeks this last time) and just stays in 3rd.
The last time I picked it up he switched from a superior billet servo to a sonnax billet servo which I guess is more like the stock style and as soon as i drove it I knew it still wasn't right.
For one thing you cant even feel the 3-4 shift anymore, then in 4th with the converter locked when I roll into the throttle just enough to keep it locked the rpm's still slip up 200-500 rpms initially, and holding it there it seems like it slips a little then grabs and pull's the rpm's back down, then slips a little again then grabs and pull em back down. all this while I know my converter is still locked which is a 6 month old yank pt3800...
Also the trans wont make the 2nd to 3rd gear shift at WOT or even 80-90% without me lifting for almost a full second, it just bounces the rev limiter until I lift.
I've only done one WOT 4th gear pull to see what 4th would do without the converter locked and there was a little slip maybe slipping up then back down 100rpm's or so a few times before I had to lift, not much but the tach was def going back and fourth a little...
Now my builder has no clue why 4th wont work correctly anymore and has told me this, It worked fine for 25k miles or so with his performance build before the reverse input drum issue So idk... He said he was going to try increasing the size of whatever valvebody passages would get more fluid to 4th without flooding it I guess, I dont really know **** about them but I'm thinking If they didnt need to be bigger before and worked then why do they need to be now? I'm gonna try to get him to give you a call tomorrow if you feel you may be able to add some insight to this issue??? P.S. Sorry for the long *** post lol
03-19-2009, 09:51 PM
#16
when the drum flared do you know if he used a "new drum,used drum,remanfactured drum"
I am mostly concerned with the reman drum sometimes they are machined and sometimes to much which will cause the band to collid with itself.
Another thing when using the sonax 4th servo with the superior billet servo "Do not use the gold washer" instead replace it with a washer identical to the washer under the clip on the pin, Reason unless the band clearance is set very tight which it should be pretty close tolerance. After a while when the band wears in the gold wash will collide with the superior part and cause a slipping and eventually no 4th .
If he would like to call me that will be fine I will be happy to try and help.
As for the 2-3 shift I would bet on a presure related problem so that needs to be looked into also.
I am mostly concerned with the reman drum sometimes they are machined and sometimes to much which will cause the band to collid with itself.
Another thing when using the sonax 4th servo with the superior billet servo "Do not use the gold washer" instead replace it with a washer identical to the washer under the clip on the pin, Reason unless the band clearance is set very tight which it should be pretty close tolerance. After a while when the band wears in the gold wash will collide with the superior part and cause a slipping and eventually no 4th .
If he would like to call me that will be fine I will be happy to try and help.
As for the 2-3 shift I would bet on a presure related problem so that needs to be looked into also.
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03-19-2009, 10:15 PM
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Unfortunatly idk where he got the replacement drum from but that is when this problem all started so that very well could be an issue, he did say my 3-4 clutches still looked new which I thought for sure they would be smoked after two weeks of 4th slipping I think he's using the z-max or whatever 3-4 clutches.
As for the 2-3 shift that is probably because of this 4th issue correct?
I'm gonna try to get him to contact you tomorrow, its 570-578-5686 right? are you the only one who answers this #? His name is Ron @ interstate transmissions btw. He's a great guy and a fellow racer/ race enthusiast and has helped me with this and other issues on HIS dime a number of times now...
I just know these transmissions are all you guys deal with and know virtually everything there is to know about them and have seen probably every type of failure with all the high hp applications they're used in everyday... Thanks again for all your help and insight, for that reason when this one goes and I'm looking at a full rebuild again I will be purchasing a lvl 3 from you!
As for the 2-3 shift that is probably because of this 4th issue correct?
I'm gonna try to get him to contact you tomorrow, its 570-578-5686 right? are you the only one who answers this #? His name is Ron @ interstate transmissions btw. He's a great guy and a fellow racer/ race enthusiast and has helped me with this and other issues on HIS dime a number of times now...
I just know these transmissions are all you guys deal with and know virtually everything there is to know about them and have seen probably every type of failure with all the high hp applications they're used in everyday... Thanks again for all your help and insight, for that reason when this one goes and I'm looking at a full rebuild again I will be purchasing a lvl 3 from you!
03-23-2009, 11:01 PM
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Got the car back from the shop today and for the first time since dec everything seems good and looks like they got it right this time!
Got the new forward overrun piston in, found out I had broken a few of the inside tabs on a sprag for the 3-4 clutches, not too sure If that was part of my issue???
But I have no more slipping in 4th and it hasn't banged the limiter on the 2-3 shift yet so i'm happy for now! Thanks again to performabuilt for your help on here and talking with me on the phone even though my builder never called you...
Got the new forward overrun piston in, found out I had broken a few of the inside tabs on a sprag for the 3-4 clutches, not too sure If that was part of my issue???
But I have no more slipping in 4th and it hasn't banged the limiter on the 2-3 shift yet so i'm happy for now! Thanks again to performabuilt for your help on here and talking with me on the phone even though my builder never called you...