Try to follow... AOD behind turbo LS?
03-18-2012, 11:25 PM
#1
Try to follow... AOD behind turbo LS? Yeah yeah, blasphemy I know. Try to follow me on this one for a second.
I've been looking at my best option for a transmission lately. The transmission is going in a 69 nova behind a turbo LS motor. It'll be getting more street miles than anything. I've spent a ton of time researching which transmission would be best.
T56 with a dual disk clutch would probably hold up, but auto would be better on quite a few occasions.
4L60 won't hold, TH400 that I have now is a PITA and can't be driven on the highway, and I can't find a 4L80 with a good warranty.
Now don't get me wrong, I see quite a few people who build 4L80s that are capable of holding 1000-1200 HP with a 3 month warranty. I probably won't be making nearly as much power, but the 3 month warranty on a street car isn't very appealing since it'll put me back $3000+ when it almost inevitably breaks down at some point down the road (even if its a couple of years down the road).
So I started looking at Lentech. I've used a 4r70w of theirs before and couldn't have been happier. I know some NMRA racers using their AOD making 1000+ whp and brag about their Lentech all day long. What appeals to me MOST is the lifetime warranty. Sure, you might have to pay a few hundred extra for a bell that fits the LS bolt pattern, but has it ever been considered? They're strong as hell, even the 1500 HP rated one comes with the lifetime warranty.
I know I know, AOD in a GM car.. blah blah. I'm just exploring all of my options before I make a very costly decision.
I've been looking at my best option for a transmission lately. The transmission is going in a 69 nova behind a turbo LS motor. It'll be getting more street miles than anything. I've spent a ton of time researching which transmission would be best.
T56 with a dual disk clutch would probably hold up, but auto would be better on quite a few occasions.
4L60 won't hold, TH400 that I have now is a PITA and can't be driven on the highway, and I can't find a 4L80 with a good warranty.
Now don't get me wrong, I see quite a few people who build 4L80s that are capable of holding 1000-1200 HP with a 3 month warranty. I probably won't be making nearly as much power, but the 3 month warranty on a street car isn't very appealing since it'll put me back $3000+ when it almost inevitably breaks down at some point down the road (even if its a couple of years down the road).
So I started looking at Lentech. I've used a 4r70w of theirs before and couldn't have been happier. I know some NMRA racers using their AOD making 1000+ whp and brag about their Lentech all day long. What appeals to me MOST is the lifetime warranty. Sure, you might have to pay a few hundred extra for a bell that fits the LS bolt pattern, but has it ever been considered? They're strong as hell, even the 1500 HP rated one comes with the lifetime warranty.
I know I know, AOD in a GM car.. blah blah. I'm just exploring all of my options before I make a very costly decision.
03-19-2012, 01:37 AM
#2
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A friend of mine built and installed a 4r70w in one of his customers turbo camaro. Its kinda funny because it has a stock pan with ford stamped in it and people do understand whats going on with it. It works great and the stock drive shaft fits with a yoke change and the stock dipstick even works. I looked into doing one with my car but after looking at the price of the bell housing and all the machine work I felt it was just better to do the 4l80e. So yes it can and has been done but I dont feel its worth the cost and time over the 80. But thats just me.
03-19-2012, 01:52 AM
#3
I'm a builder for Jake's Performance, our 80e warranty is 6 months, and depending on the circumstance/time frame it's not uncommon for us to still help someone out after the warranty period, though we very rarely deal with it due to a ~1.5% warranty return rate, with the majority of that being due to a former builder's work.
You say that you won't be making near as much power when referring to 1000 hp, and you also say it's going to to be mainly street miles. What leads you to believe it will inevitably break? Our Stage II is our lowest offering and it's warrantied @ 750 hp. When you go higher on the spectrum to our stage 5, it's reliable @ 1500 hp or so. Only one guy has ever broken that and that's because the guy lied to us about his application and he did not mention that he enjoyed FREQUENTLY jumping sand dunes truck.
What are your power goals exactly? I have to say, it's intriguing to hear someone say that a 4L80E will inevitably break, if you don't mind me asking where did you hear that it would? Not trying to sound like I'm talking down on you, just honestly curious is all
You say that you won't be making near as much power when referring to 1000 hp, and you also say it's going to to be mainly street miles. What leads you to believe it will inevitably break? Our Stage II is our lowest offering and it's warrantied @ 750 hp. When you go higher on the spectrum to our stage 5, it's reliable @ 1500 hp or so. Only one guy has ever broken that and that's because the guy lied to us about his application and he did not mention that he enjoyed FREQUENTLY jumping sand dunes truck.
What are your power goals exactly? I have to say, it's intriguing to hear someone say that a 4L80E will inevitably break, if you don't mind me asking where did you hear that it would? Not trying to sound like I'm talking down on you, just honestly curious is all
03-19-2012, 08:17 AM
#4
Fatigue life on a high power street car is always a problem. I expect to be putting 650 or so to the wheels for a good while. And the car will be driven and abused frequently. If my budget increases down the road, a couple hundred more horsepower isn't out of the question. It just seems that after a while something is inevitably going to fail. The TH400 in the car now was guaranteed to 800 horsepower and has been nothing but full of issues since the day the warranty went out. Constant slip, leaking fluid, shavings in the fluid. I'm waiting for something to break any day now. The slip is so bad that at 3000 rpm in 3rd gear, I'm doing a whopping 45 mph.
After a few years a higher power levels, something breaks or goes wrong. A warranty is a good peace of mind. Even if the transmission is built stronger with better parts, a short warranty makes it less appealing.
Didn't know jakes had a 6 month warranty. Their 4L80 was probably my first choice for a transmission in the first place. The only reason I considered lentech is from personal experience.
Btw, what kind of options do I have with Jakes? Its going to be a street car with a few occasional quarter mile passes. I want it to have good street manners and am willing to sacrifice some quarter mile time for a reliable transmission that drives well everywhere, but I don't want it to hinder my power output any.
After a few years a higher power levels, something breaks or goes wrong. A warranty is a good peace of mind. Even if the transmission is built stronger with better parts, a short warranty makes it less appealing.
Didn't know jakes had a 6 month warranty. Their 4L80 was probably my first choice for a transmission in the first place. The only reason I considered lentech is from personal experience.
Btw, what kind of options do I have with Jakes? Its going to be a street car with a few occasional quarter mile passes. I want it to have good street manners and am willing to sacrifice some quarter mile time for a reliable transmission that drives well everywhere, but I don't want it to hinder my power output any.
03-19-2012, 08:37 AM
#5
Fatigue life on a high power street car is always a problem. I expect to be putting 650 or so to the wheels for a good while. And the car will be driven and abused frequently. If my budget increases down the road, a couple hundred more horsepower isn't out of the question. It just seems that after a while something is inevitably going to fail. The TH400 in the car now was guaranteed to 800 horsepower and has been nothing but full of issues since the day the warranty went out. Constant slip, leaking fluid, shavings in the fluid. I'm waiting for something to break any day now. The slip is so bad that at 3000 rpm in 3rd gear, I'm doing a whopping 45 mph.
After a few years a higher power levels, something breaks or goes wrong. A warranty is a good peace of mind. Even if the transmission is built stronger with better parts, a short warranty makes it less appealing.
Didn't know jakes had a 6 month warranty. Their 4L80 was probably my first choice for a transmission in the first place. The only reason I considered lentech is from personal experience.
Btw, what kind of options do I have with Jakes? Its going to be a street car with a few occasional quarter mile passes. I want it to have good street manners and am willing to sacrifice some quarter mile time for a reliable transmission that drives well everywhere, but I don't want it to hinder my power output any.
After a few years a higher power levels, something breaks or goes wrong. A warranty is a good peace of mind. Even if the transmission is built stronger with better parts, a short warranty makes it less appealing.
Didn't know jakes had a 6 month warranty. Their 4L80 was probably my first choice for a transmission in the first place. The only reason I considered lentech is from personal experience.
Btw, what kind of options do I have with Jakes? Its going to be a street car with a few occasional quarter mile passes. I want it to have good street manners and am willing to sacrifice some quarter mile time for a reliable transmission that drives well everywhere, but I don't want it to hinder my power output any.
650 hp is WELL within our comfort zone for one of our transmissions to last a long, healthy life. Regarding that TH400, do you know how extensively modified it was? Any idea what was done to it internally, or what hydraulic modifications were made if any? That is definitely not good.Lol you have just about every kind of option you could ask for with us. We make a point not to sell you extra BS you won't need, and I know Jake and our shop manager Mike like to talk to each customer and discuss their build to have every transmission set up specifically for their combination. When people order a converter to go with their transmission we send them a spec sheet that is used to design a converter built to their cars exact specs.
Our 4L80E definitely has some very nice street manners, with noticeably crisper shifts vs stock. I wish I was able to show you personally, I wouldn't hesitate to DD it all. Another cool thing we do that, as far as I have been able to tell, no one else does, we rollerize several components internally to reduce parasitic loss. In short, put our transmission in a car and slap it on the dyno, then put someone elses in the same car on the same dyno, the car that had our transmission will have dynoed noticeably higher numbers. Depending on your setup, your quarter mile times may also very well improve, it's not uncommon at all
10-11-2012, 10:57 PM
#7
Give JW performance a call and ask them for an ultra-bell for your application. This is a common swap that many have tried. The 4R70W is very capable of high horse power and very light weight. The AOD is also common because it does not require a controller to shift the trans.
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10-12-2012, 11:41 AM
#9
JW Performance also sells converter spacers for said application or you can call your converter company of choice (Edge, Circle D, Yank, ect...) and have them build you a converter for your combo. SilverFox makes a really good 4R70W valvebody, you won't be disappointed.
11-09-2012, 01:47 PM
#10
Give JW performance a call and ask them for an ultra-bell for your application. This is a common swap that many have tried. The 4R70W is very capable of high horse power and very light weight. The AOD is also common because it does not require a controller to shift the trans.
11-28-2014, 09:58 PM
#11
Yes I am reviving a 2 year old thread. I would like to run a 4r70w behind a 5.3 in my mustang. I found this pic but cant get any info at all from the person that uploaded it to photobucket. It is possible but how?
10-25-2019, 07:28 PM
#14
10-25-2019, 08:08 PM
#15
It's only tried and true bc the other way cant be done bc of no bell housing lol had there been it been just as good. A built 4r70 can hang with them and it be more cost effective since the car would have it already and wouldn't need to worry about waiting it up. No crossmember swapping either.
10-25-2019, 10:05 PM
#16
TECH Addict
Seems like the right Lakewood SFI steel bell housing with the transmission side recut at a good machine shop with a spacer if needed would do it?
What AM I missing?
What AM I missing?
10-28-2019, 07:36 AM
#17
TECH Junkie
It's only tried and true bc the other way cant be done bc of no bell housing lol had there been it been just as good. A built 4r70 can hang with them and it be more cost effective since the car would have it already and wouldn't need to worry about waiting it up. No crossmember swapping either.
I know of 2 4r70's out there at around the 800 horse mark in turbo cars. They come in every year to get the direct drum replaced (because the stub shaft is close to being splined out) and to get new clutches in the directs.
80/400 stays away for years at more power too
The 4r70 is not at all a bad transmission...but if you're trying to decide between it...and a 4l80e...the choice is very simple for behind a turbo LS
I would also make the same argument that if you wanted and OD trans behind a ford engine...the 4r70 would by far be the simpler choice and adequate for most guys
10-28-2019, 10:24 AM
#18
Wasnt comparing in away shape or form. The fact is the 4r70 is a better opt bc it's already there and working and will hold what most need. I know way more then 2 that hold a ton of power in heavy trucks none the less. If someone made a bell housing it would in fact be the better option for most since it's there cheaper to build then the 4l60 and doesnt have the bad rap the 4l60 has and most wouldn't need to jump to the big heavy 80.
10-28-2019, 12:46 PM
#20
TECH Junkie
Wasnt comparing in away shape or form. The fact is the 4r70 is a better opt bc it's already there and working and will hold what most need. I know way more then 2 that hold a ton of power in heavy trucks none the less. If someone made a bell housing it would in fact be the better option for most since it's there cheaper to build then the 4l60 and doesnt have the bad rap the 4l60 has and most wouldn't need to jump to the big heavy 80.
A. the 60e is very comparable in cost to the 4r70 to build properly in stock form. they both get expensive at about the same pace when building for performance.
B. the 80e being "heavy" and a "horsepower hog" is laughable to me. If 40lbs and less than 0.5% is bad to you...then you better never swap to a ford 9" over a 7.5 gm...because that will be more than 40 lbs and more than 0.5%
-sell the 4r70
-buy 80e
-be done