200r4 or 4l60e
08-13-2013, 08:05 AM
#2
4L60E will be more aggressive with a much lower gear, the problem is the 1-2 gear spread is wider , so there is more rpm drop . The 2004R when built right is a stronger trans than the 4L60 with closer gear spacing. I know I will get bashed on that last statement and few builders can make that happen. I believe my builder can, and that is who I get the info from. With proper parts, the 2004R can hold up to 1000hp. If you make more than that go straight to the 4L80. Im putting a stage 2 2004R in my car this week and am confident I wont have to worry about trans issues anymore, in the future.
Go see Lonnie and have him build you a 200, you will be happy.
Go see Lonnie and have him build you a 200, you will be happy.
08-14-2013, 02:08 PM
#5
FormerVendor
Join Date: Apr 2013
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We completely agree with newschool72. When built correctly, with the appropriate upgrades, the 200-4R is a much stronger transmission. Give us a call and we'll be happy to go over everything with you.
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08-15-2013, 07:07 AM
#8
It might just be me, but why start with a weaker trans and have to be super careful with the converter, just to get to about the same place in the end? Another thing to consider is the physical weight of the trans and the drive train losses that the 4L60 will have over the 2004R. The 200 will have less loss through the drive train and have less weight to push down the track.
08-15-2013, 09:54 AM
#9
True statement on the builder of the 2004R. There are inherent flaws built into the 2004R as built by GM. A great 2004R builder can eliminate those flaws and by replacing the weak knees in the hard parts, can make a perfect 4 sp overdrive for 95% of the hot cars on the road. A good converter can get you off the line with whatever gear ratio the trans has in first. Just look at all the glides out there turning great times. Keeping the engine in the power band is the job of the gear spacing in the trans, and the flash of the converter. It seems to me ,for the 4L60 to mask the big drop between 1st and 2nd,the converter will have to be a lot looser than the 2004R. It takes a heck of a converter to be that loose and still lock up nice and tight to keep the efficiency up at the big end.
It might just be me, but why start with a weaker trans and have to be super careful with the converter, just to get to about the same place in the end? Another thing to consider is the physical weight of the trans and the drive train losses that the 4L60 will have over the 2004R. The 200 will have less loss through the drive train and have less weight to push down the track.
It might just be me, but why start with a weaker trans and have to be super careful with the converter, just to get to about the same place in the end? Another thing to consider is the physical weight of the trans and the drive train losses that the 4L60 will have over the 2004R. The 200 will have less loss through the drive train and have less weight to push down the track.
A 200-4R and a 4L60E weigh about the same... Not sure where one would have any great drivetrain loss over the other.
Especially since we've got good data that a 4L80E that is 35 lbs heavier than a 4L60E doesn't typically cause any real HP loss.
The HP losses assumed in the transmission are way greater in internet lore than in real life and not really of ANY consequence to 98% of the people who worry about it.
Basically if you're not running 9's or quicker in the 1/4 mile, it's not really a factor.
I do prefer the gear ratios of the 200-4R. However it's NOT a 1000 HP capable unit in my experience, but neither is a 4L60E.
08-15-2013, 10:32 AM
#10
A 200-4R and a 4L60E weigh about the same... Not sure where one would have any great drivetrain loss over the other.
Especially since we've got good data that a 4L80E that is 35 lbs heavier than a 4L60E doesn't typically cause any real HP loss.
The HP losses assumed in the transmission are way greater in internet lore than in real life and not really of ANY consequence to 98% of the people who worry about it.
Basically if you're not running 9's or quicker in the 1/4 mile, it's not really a factor.
I do prefer the gear ratios of the 200-4R. However it's NOT a 1000 HP capable unit in my experience, but neither is a 4L60E.
Especially since we've got good data that a 4L80E that is 35 lbs heavier than a 4L60E doesn't typically cause any real HP loss.
The HP losses assumed in the transmission are way greater in internet lore than in real life and not really of ANY consequence to 98% of the people who worry about it.
Basically if you're not running 9's or quicker in the 1/4 mile, it's not really a factor.
I do prefer the gear ratios of the 200-4R. However it's NOT a 1000 HP capable unit in my experience, but neither is a 4L60E.
On the 1000HP 2004R, the guy you recommended while you were out of the 2004R business claims his stage 3 billet unit will hold it and has a 2 year warranty to stand behind it. You know more about that sort of thing than I do, but he is convinced, LOL.
08-15-2013, 11:04 AM
#11
That's interesting on the HP losses. Im a regurgitater , not a builder, so I will take your thoughts as truth.
On the 1000HP 2004R, the guy you recommended while you were out of the 2004R business claims his stage 3 billet unit will hold it and has a 2 year warranty to stand behind it. You know more about that sort of thing than I do, but he is convinced, LOL.
On the 1000HP 2004R, the guy you recommended while you were out of the 2004R business claims his stage 3 billet unit will hold it and has a 2 year warranty to stand behind it. You know more about that sort of thing than I do, but he is convinced, LOL.
If trans builder XYZ claims it will hold 1000 HP, if you don't "equal" the claim, the public thinks you have a lesser product.
So you either don't claim any numbers, or you play the marketing game, or you tell the truth.
A 200-4R at 1000 HP isn't going to live long. The planetaries are going to kill the thrust washers and other issues.
I think it's a great unit up to 600 HP, and it's a workable unit to 800 HP, but not 1000 HP.
Art Carr started the 1000 HP 200-4R claim and I know Lonnie builds a better 200-4R than CPT, Lonnie knows this as well.
08-15-2013, 09:20 PM
#14
Moderator
It has the potential to be faster because of the tighter gear ratios, but as Newschool72 said, it depends upon your rear ratio, your cam and the stall of the converter.
For example, with a 2.73 rear, stock cam and stock converter, I think it would be slower because that combo would be faster with the 4L60E's 3.06 1st gear ratio.
Personally I would always prefer a 4L60E or 4L80E because I like tuning the trans exactly when and how it shifts.
For example, with a 2.73 rear, stock cam and stock converter, I think it would be slower because that combo would be faster with the 4L60E's 3.06 1st gear ratio.
Personally I would always prefer a 4L60E or 4L80E because I like tuning the trans exactly when and how it shifts.
08-16-2013, 07:20 AM
#15
It has the potential to be faster because of the tighter gear ratios, but as Newschool72 said, it depends upon your rear ratio, your cam and the stall of the converter.
For example, with a 2.73 rear, stock cam and stock converter, I think it would be slower because that combo would be faster with the 4L60E's 3.06 1st gear ratio.
Personally I would always prefer a 4L60E or 4L80E because I like tuning the trans exactly when and how it shifts.
For example, with a 2.73 rear, stock cam and stock converter, I think it would be slower because that combo would be faster with the 4L60E's 3.06 1st gear ratio.
Personally I would always prefer a 4L60E or 4L80E because I like tuning the trans exactly when and how it shifts.
The super low first gear in the 7004R and 4L60E where designed for under powered V6 cars so they would be able to pull away from a stop and not get the drive run over by the Voltswagon bug behind them, LOL. If the car is geared and stall correctly, I don't think the 3.06 first gear is worth anything more than making you have to find second quicker, but don't worry, you can rest while you wait for third to show up.
08-16-2013, 06:11 PM
#16
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
My plans with either trans is a circle d 5c 3.90-4.10 gears ls1 advanced induction hcr 241 heads eps 222/226 115 cam.its going into a foxbody mustang that should weigh 27-2800 lb.
