Which builder for 4L80E's?
11-13-2014, 06:18 AM
#1
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Which builder for 4L80E's? I have been searching and searching over the past couple of months and have found several transmission builders that seem to be in good price ranges with good reviews, but would just like to hear what your opinions would be in regards to my specific build and the route you would take. Thank you!
The car is an 02 Camaro that will be receiving a turbo lq4 and I am looking for 800rwhp. At least, that is the goal. The reason I am aiming to run the 4l80E is because this will be a mostly street car. An S60 is what will be sitting behind it. It is a full interior car so it will be a little bit heavy. Thanks for your input!
-Tyler
The car is an 02 Camaro that will be receiving a turbo lq4 and I am looking for 800rwhp. At least, that is the goal. The reason I am aiming to run the 4l80E is because this will be a mostly street car. An S60 is what will be sitting behind it. It is a full interior car so it will be a little bit heavy. Thanks for your input!
-Tyler
11-13-2014, 06:35 AM
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11-15-2014, 10:27 PM
#5
Definitely give jakes a call. I just ordered a 4l80 and converter with them about two weeks ago. Amazing customer service for sure.
Before even buying anything I called and talked to them on 3 seperate occasions for close to an hour each time. They answerd and explained everything and they were happy to help!
Before even buying anything I called and talked to them on 3 seperate occasions for close to an hour each time. They answerd and explained everything and they were happy to help!
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11-16-2014, 11:35 PM
#9
When that builder didn't work out, you elected to try North Texas Converter.
I hope that works out for you but please don't claim to be a customer when we have in fact not done business directly with you, have not built a transmission for you, and yet we're willing to answer your questions.
11-17-2014, 08:03 AM
#11
As I recall your builder did business with us, not you.
When that builder didn't work out, you elected to try North Texas Converter.
I hope that works out for you but please don't claim to be a customer when we have in fact not done business directly with you, have not built a transmission for you, and yet we're willing to answer your questions.
When that builder didn't work out, you elected to try North Texas Converter.
I hope that works out for you but please don't claim to be a customer when we have in fact not done business directly with you, have not built a transmission for you, and yet we're willing to answer your questions.
Not to mention you never called Jon back about the 36 element super drum that you still have. You agreed to refund him the cost of the drum which you didn't do. So you have a drum (cause Jon didn't want it back) and we still don't have any money.
11-17-2014, 09:15 AM
#12
I did speak to Jon at Master Transmission. He sent a drum back that I warrantied once already (nobody in the industry provides a warranty on this type of drum) without authorization.
I elected not to warranty it again because the drums were not defective and because of your actions.
Please post the PM where I was rude.
I elected not to warranty it again because the drums were not defective and because of your actions.
Please post the PM where I was rude.
11-19-2014, 04:15 PM
#14
whatever you do if you do decide to buy a mail order transmission specifically a 60E which there is no such thing as a built 4L60E send whoever the mail order transmission is from a copy of your tune off your PCM before it ever leaves their shop so when it fails they already to know what the tables are...been there done that with a vendor on here in the past that tried to blame the trans tune.
11-19-2014, 09:10 PM
#15
whatever you do if you do decide to buy a mail order transmission specifically a 60E which there is no such thing as a built 4L60E send whoever the mail order transmission is from a copy of your tune off your PCM before it ever leaves their shop so when it fails they already to know what the tables are...been there done that with a vendor on here in the past that tried to blame the trans tune.
Why would the transmission builder be responsible for your tune?
Unless the builder is doing the install, they aren't responsible for installation or tuning errors.
The two biggest reasons we see for failure are fluid level and tuning errors. Occasionally we see a misadjusted shifter or pump broken due to converter install error.
Your transmission builder AND tuner can't tell anything by looking at your tune.
The ONLY way to check is to install a pressure gauge on the transmission in the car and verify pressures when operating. PERIOD!
You can't tune fuel without a wideband or plug check. You can't confirm timing without a knock sensor. You learn the hard way even with a feedback loop sometimes as many guys have scorched pistons learning this.
Why would tuning a transmission be any different?
This is why many builders have traditionally installed vacuum modulators on 4L60E builds, to prevent the tuning from being an issue.
The problem is that many enthusiasts put way too much trust in a "tuner" and not in the guy who built their engine or trans. Many tuners have very little clue about transmission operation. They rely mostly on what the concensus is on whatever tuning forum they frequent, not actual knowledge or data.
I spend a good amount of time on the phone discussing this topic with customers and their tuners. I don't get paid to tune or install the transmission but we spend a considerable amount of time helping our customers with this because ultimately we want our product to be successful. Most customers don't understand the operation either, and like your post they will blame the burnt up transmission on the builder not the installation or tuning. We dyno test everything that goes out. We KNOW it has pressure when it leaves. If it burns up in a short amount of time it's almost always caused by something that happened after it left. I'm sure the other builders have experienced the same thing.
We send out a fairly extensive packet for installation with each transmission and by the calls we get asking simple questions that were covered by the packet, I know it often goes unread.
11-19-2014, 09:35 PM
#16
Moderator
"Unfortunately" Jake's comments are all true.
While I have seen some clearly "wrong" tunes, even a very good tuner may not fully understand the interaction between the many tables that can affect line pressure and shifting.
The pressure gauge Jake refers to costly only $33 on Amazon with (free) Prime shipping. (Search "atd 5550 pressure gauge") IMHO, it should be considered a "basic" tool for installing a trans and/or diagnosing any problems. A pressure gauge is to a transmission the way a volt meter is to the electrical system - absolutely essential.
On the previous post, I take exception with "there is no such thing as a built 4L60E" because the sponsors here build very good 4L60E, especially when the customer is willing to spend the money for expensive parts upgrades such as billet shafts, billet pump rotor, billet forward/overrun piston, Sonnax input drum, etc.
Jake: Maybe you should mail the extensive packet so that the customer receives it a few days before the trans.
While I have seen some clearly "wrong" tunes, even a very good tuner may not fully understand the interaction between the many tables that can affect line pressure and shifting.
The pressure gauge Jake refers to costly only $33 on Amazon with (free) Prime shipping. (Search "atd 5550 pressure gauge") IMHO, it should be considered a "basic" tool for installing a trans and/or diagnosing any problems. A pressure gauge is to a transmission the way a volt meter is to the electrical system - absolutely essential.
On the previous post, I take exception with "there is no such thing as a built 4L60E" because the sponsors here build very good 4L60E, especially when the customer is willing to spend the money for expensive parts upgrades such as billet shafts, billet pump rotor, billet forward/overrun piston, Sonnax input drum, etc.
Jake: Maybe you should mail the extensive packet so that the customer receives it a few days before the trans.
11-19-2014, 11:41 PM
#19
Moderator
I have been active on this forum for 4+ years where I have read almost every post related to transmissions. I have also been active on nastyz28.com for 5+ years where Jake has 8500+ posts. He also has more posts on other forums. On all these forums I have seen perhaps one complaint about one of his transmissions. Jake does call a spade a spade and sometimes pisses people off because of it. He bends over pretty far for customers and even non-customers, but will let you know when it is too far. So, he might not be your BFF or someone to take home to meet your parents, but based on the hundreds of compliments I have read on this and other forums, his transmissions have a reliability and satisfaction rate that is higher than most vendors and at least equal to anyone else.
11-20-2014, 12:27 AM
#20
You have been one of my most memorable customers, because you were one of the worst.
You brought me a car that had a transmission installed by another shop, tuned by another guy, and the shifter linkage adjustment was WAY off, causing it to burn up. Overdrive and overrun frictions both being burnt has a very specific cause of failure.
You are a mechanic, so you should be able to understand that but you are a good example of the customer not wanting to hear the truth, just expecting the vendor to fix problems they didn't cause.
Then you wanted to slam me on the internet because you brought me a car that had a faulty crank position sensor, you told me that you thought it was a bad fuel pump. Yes it did run when you brought it to the shop and did not run when you had it picked up by a rollback because you THOUGHT it had a defective fuel pump. After you replaced the fuel pump and it still didn't run you replaced the CKP. Guess what, the blown out MAP sensor you blamed on my shop was most likely caused by the already defective CKP. Had you given us the time to look at it, we would have fixed it.
Everyone take this as an example. Work WITH the shop working on your car, not against. Denny wanted to be an ******* so he got the return treatment. That being full price on a freshen up, converter cut and clean, and R&R. I rarely ever charge full price for a freshen up, even when the trans was installed incorrectly. Guys like this make me more of a hard *** when it comes to pricing.