thor68372rockon

Hey Guys, Love The Website, Excellent Info. I Got A Problem With My 4L60E. It's In A 2003 Chevy Tahoe 5.3L 4L60E Trans. I Just Rebuilt It, Alto Green High Energy Frictions, Installed The TransGo HD2 Programming Kit, "Forward Acc. Pinless Piston", Replaced The Manifold Pressure Switch, A & B Solenoids, TCC Soenoid, All Other Soenoids Checked Out On The OHM Test Through Wire Harness Connecter. This Is My First 4L60E Rebuild, I Have Done 2 4R100s & A Ton Of TH350s & TH400s. The Reason I Rebuilt It Was Because Of A 2-3 Shift Flare & 150,000 Miles On It, It Shifted Fine In All Other Gears. Rebuilt It & It Shifted Great In Reverse & 1st-3rd But No Overdrive, Ist Trial Run Would Not Shift Into OD In OD BUT, I Shifted It Manually From 3rd To 4th & It Went Into OD For 5-10 Seconds Then Shifted Back To 3rd & Would Not Go Into OD Again After That. I Did Install The Corvette Servo For 2nd Gear & The Sonnax 4th Gear Super Hold Servo. Checked To Make Sure I Didn't Nick A Teflon Seal & They Looked Good, I Put The Stock 4th Apply Cap Back On, Put One Of The Shims In The TransGo HD Kit On The 2-4 Servo & Tried It On The Jack Stands With All 4 Wheels Off The Ground, & Did Not Help (Did Not See A Drop In RPM). My Next Attempt Is To Put The 2nd Shim In The Kit On To See If It Makes A Difference. I Did Press In On The 2-4 Servo & Before The Shim I Had About 3/16-1/4 Inch Travel I Think, Now I Have About 1/8 Inch, Which I Understand Is Good. I Thought About Just Putting The 2-4 Servo Back To Stock Setup & Trying That, But I Spent A Lot Of Money On The Other Parts & I Would Like To Get Them To Perform Correctly. Any Help Or Advice On What I Might Try Next Would Be Very Much Appreciated. If You Need Any More Info. Let Know, Thanks Again.

thor68372rockon

Also What Would Be An Easy Way Of Testing To See If The TCC Is Locking Up & An Easy Way To Tell If The PCM Is Commanding A Shift To 4th But The Trans. Is Not Doing It, And What Is Preventing It From Completing The Shift To 4th. Thanks Again, Appreciate Any Help Or Advice.

thor68372rockon

Okay, I'm Going To Put The 2-4 Servo Back To The Original Stock Parts With New Teflon Square Seals & See If There Is A Change In Shift, Or, Shift Into OverDrive. Will Post Back & List Results, Good Or Bad. Any Other Advice & Knowledge, Experience Is Always Appreciated, Thanks Again. Donny

coryforsenate

iTrader: (1)

Welcome to the forum

Not to nitpick, but your posts would be easier to read if every word wasn't capitalized and the run-on sentences were fixed.

If you think it might be a servo issue, and the stock servo setup worked, then I'd try the stock servo setup and see if that solves the problem. If the problem is resolved, then you can narrow it down to something wrong with the installation of the upgraded servo setup and figure out what went wrong. If not, then the problem lies elsewhere.

GMCSIERRA5.3

i would not suggest adding the 2nd gold ring in the servo..usually will leave a regular sized band way too tight..1 gold shim is perfect..

bbond105

Question # 1 I wound not worry whether or not the TCC is locking up until I got the no 4th gear problem resolved. You can check the TCC by driving at a steady speed of around 60 to 70mph on a fairly level road and lightly depress the brake pedal just enough to turn on the brake lights but not applying the brakes. If the RPMs jump up by 200 to 400 RPMs or greater then the TCC is working. If no change in RPMs then your TCC is not working.

Questions #2 You will need a scanner or some type of tuning solfwear to monitor the command to the shift solenoids. When the PCM commands the 3-4 shift it turns the A shift solenoid on and leaves the B shift solenoid off. In 3rd gear both shift solenoids are off. In 1st gear both shift solenoids are on so I don’t think you have a bad A shift solenoid. If that were the case 1st gear wouldn’t work either.

Putting the original 2-4 servos back in will help in determining if the new 2-4 servos are the problem. That would be the next step I would take.

Good luck. Let us know how it worked and we’ll go from there.

bbond105

Almost every 4L60 I have built needed both gold shims to get the band clearance to where TransGo recommended.

thor68372rockon

Thanks for the response, GMCSierra, I think you may be right. Upon depressing the servo cover, it depresses in about 1/8-3/16in. I do believe by sonnax instructions it is .075-.125inches of play or depression. The trans. is in vehicle so I did not put my digital needle meter on it. I think I will pull out the vise grip adjustable base & mount the digital meter on it to verify the measurement. I was told 1/8 in. was perfect, is this correct?

thor68372rockon

Hey Cory, sorry, was up for 50+ hours trying to get this thing happy with its new home. Will correct behavior. I think you are right, going back to stock is a good start point. It did not do this before, it always shifted into OD. I will get a reading on depression & put stock 2-4 servo back in with new teflon rings & post back. Thanks for all of you guys help.

thor68372rockon

Hey bbond105, understood on not worrying about lockup right now. #2 ok, trans. guy I know says if going back to stock don't fix it he would hook up his snap-on Solace & see if pcm is commanding 4th & trans. is not obeying. Replaced the manifold pressure switch & A & B solenoids so that narrows it down. Unless one was bad right outta the box. I usually test with 12V from battery to verify but tried to hurry it along, not good practice. Thanks again brother, will post back my observations & outcomes.

thor68372rockon

Hey Guys, talked to my trans. guy & he said he went to a seminar that sonnax had here a couple months ago. They said that mixing a TransGo Kit with some Sonnax parts may counter act the actions of the part, or cancel out each other, or cause a very different reaction. I did not even think about this when i ordered my sonnax valve body parts. I installed the, #1) TransGo HD2 Kit #2) sonnax P/N 77805E-K TCC Apply w/Teflon Seal 4L60E PWM Units Only, #3) sonnax P/N 77754-41 Valve, 2-3 Shift HD 4L60E,4L65E,4L70E. Don't know if this combination is a problem or not. If anyone has tried this & had problems or has had success, let me know & I will change it ASAP. Again, Appreciate all the help & knowledge in these trying times of misfortune. LOL!!

coryforsenate

iTrader: (1)

I only used Sonnax parts when I rebuilt my 4l60e, but I do remember reading that certain Sonnax parts are incompatible with certain Transgo parts.

I believe mrvedit knows the compatibility, I'll shoot him a PM to have a look at this thread.

bbond105

Of the Sonnax parts you have listed the only thing I see that may be a problem is the 4 apply servo. I’m not saying that you can’t use it with a TransGo HD2 Kit, but that they seem to be sensitive. I have never had a need to use one, just going off a lot of post I have read.

I feel like you problems are in the 2-4 servo area.

I have mixed some Sonnax and TransGo HD2 Kit parts with no problems.

Sonnax Parts that I have used with a TransGo HD2 Kit without any problems.
P/N 77754-41 Valve, 2-3 Shift HD
P/N 77898E-K .490 O-Ring Boost Valve
P/N 77754-35K Forward & Reverse Abuse Valve Kit
P/N 77754-21 Forward/Reverse Abuse Bore Plug
P/N 77964-08K 3-4 Relay O-Ringed End Plug Kit
P/N 77987-01K Pinless Forward Accumulator Piston Kit
P/N 77998-03K Pinless Accumulator Piston Kit ( ONLY USE IN THE 4th PISTON LOCATION WITH TRANSGO KIT )
P/N 77749-02K SmartShell®
P/N 77733-02K Input Drum Reinforcement Kit

I have never used the Sonnax P/N 77805E-K TCC Apply w/Teflon Seal 4L60E PWM Units Only, but I don’t think it would create any problems.

SONNAX PARTS THAT YOU SHOULD NEVER MIX WITH TRANSGO ARE.

P/N 77998-03K Pinless Accumulator Piston Kit in the 2nd accumulator position ( CAN BE USED BUT REQUIRES MACHINING TO USE WITH TRANSGO )
P/N 77701-076 Servo Release “Check Valve” (NEVER EVER USE THIS WITH A TRANSGO KIT )

mrvedit

First, I moved these posts to a new thread as suggested.

4th gear is a combination of 2nd and 3rd gear. If 2nd and 3rd work well, it is unlikely there is a problem with the transmission internals. Possible problems include:
1. The PCM is not commanding the shift to 4th.
2. Problem in the servo.
3. Problem in the valve body.

Since the OP has double checked and tried different pistons in the servo, and assuming the valve body worked in 4th before the rebuild, I am suspecting a PCM or electrical problem.

You really should hook up a good scanner to it which can command gear changes.
Not sure, but IIRC if the PCM senses extremely high trans temperature, it might disable 4th gear. Therefore check the temperature in the scanner; a bad temp sensor in the Manifold Pressure Switch to wiring problem might be reading as an artificially high temp.

Also, 1/8" (.125") servo end play is within spec, but a bit on the high side. The spec is .075", but perhaps you already ground down the Sonnax servo pin.
__________________
1981 Camaro Z28 - LS3 stroker - 11.05 @124mph on 1st WOT run. (Previous LS2 - 11.51 @121mph)
2008 BMW 335xi automatic - 13.53 @103mph

mrvedit

Mr Bond's comments about the Sonnax and Transgo HD2 compatibility are spot on.

I currently am using the Sonnax 2nd and 4th gear servo pistons with the Blue "Cushion" spring that comes with the HD2 kit (Step 1, Page 1). The Sonnax instruction mention that some setups will have a "helper" spring in the old servo.

thor68372rockon

Hey guys, Sorry i took so long to post back. got in the house at 3:00 am. good news is i achieved OD. All 4 wheels off the ground, stock 4th cap & piston, corvette servo, had to install the 2nd Gold shim or big washer. 70 mph @2000 rpm is OD, 70 mph @ 3000 rpm is 3rd. now the not so good news is put it on the ground, test drove it. got her up to 65-70 mph, shifted to OD for about 5 seconds then back out. then would do this in & out at a fast pace, like a surging almost. Then the CEL light came on. Got it home (no abnormal smells like burnt fluid or clutches) put my OBD2 scanner on it & got a P0751 shift solenoid "A" performance or stuck off. Both "A" & "B" are brand new Borgs. So i cleared the codes with my cheapy Innova 0303C scanner(2 occurances shown on scanner for first test drive) & took it out one more time to see if it worked itself out (only 1 occurance shown on scanner this time). It would engage OD at lower speeds this time, but still kick back to 3rd. The wife drove it to the pool store this morning (bout 3-4 mi.) she said it did the surging thing from 3rd-4th at about 45mph or higher again. Do you think i would need another shim in the 2-4 servo, is the Band trying to grab the drum but can't lock, Did i knick one of the teflon seals maybe? By the way, thanks for the parts list of compatible parts, appreciate it. Have you guys ever seen this surging thing before? I thought it sounded familiar or read this somewhere before. Oh yeah, by the way, i don't know how accurate this reading is because it was tight quarters with Trans. in vehicle but the depression travel on the 4th housing was about 0.140in.or 0.138in. could not get the pin at a straight on shot at the 4th cap surface. Is that too loose or will it work? I thought maybe too loose since it tries to engage but cannot. What do you guys think about this? Thanks for all your help, you have been a big help already, appreciate it a lot. Donny

thor68372rockon

Hey mrvedit, I did not grind down the pin. It is the original stock servo pin. what i was pondering is maybe i'll have to weld a little on the tip to increase the lenght of the pin. I think i am too short on the pin at 0.138 in. or .0140 in. This could be the engage disengage problem? Also, the manifold pressure switch is new, which don't mean much these days with cheap mass produced factory parts, but understand what you are saying. Thanks

thor68372rockon

@ mrvedit, since you are using the Sonnax 4th superhold servo, do you know what your in-out travel measurement is on yours? Also, i think we can rule out the PCM commanding 4th or OD seen as how it is trying to grab 4th?

diaz90220

in the valve body its easy to use the incorrect spring that go's into the 3rd and 4th shift valve, the smaller spring go's into the 3-4 shift shaft, a larger one go's into the 4-3 sequence valve .....

mrvedit

Your 1st post was a bit hard to read.
I somehow thought you had both the 2nd and 4th Sonnax servos - the 2nd piston Sonnax servo comes with a special and very long servo pin. Now I understand - you have just the stock servo pin, the Corvette 2nd piston and the Sonnax 4th piston.

Yes, servo end play of .140 is a bit much; you can weld a blob on it and file it down to a round tip. This indicates your band has significant wear and why you two gold shims worked best for you. Is the .140 with or without the shims? Strange to have this much end play with a brand new band.

When I installed the Sonnax 2nd and 4th pistons last winter, I had to grind down the pin by about .070 to reach a .065 end play. I know the Sonnax instructions say .075, but .065 worked fine for me. The Sonnax pin is so long, I couldn't even get the servo snap ring on. I therefore assembled the Sonnax assembly with the stock GM pin, got .065 end play, disassembled it all and ground the Sonnax pin down to match the stock pin length.
Note: as mentioned in the Sonnax instructions, the servo pin sizing should be done without any o-ring or seals installed. Then once the end play is right, perform the final assembly with the o-rings.