Machine Shop
09-23-2008, 04:07 PM
#3
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Even with a degree from SAM, success is not guaranteed. Look at Port Pros... or rather, the hole in the ground where Port Pros used to be. Harold graduated from SAM.
There are 2 sides to a machine shop. Work, and money. You will really need to have at least someone specialize in each in order to 'make it'. Stuff doesn't get done if you're on the phone or running the books. If you want to run the machines, find a partner to handle the 'outside' part, and you'll probably be successful.
From my observations, a good machine shop needs to turn out quality product, on time. You can likely get away with charging more for work, if your consistency of delivery and quality are high. Start doing the "I'll have it done by the weekend" for 4 or 5 weeks in a row, and you'll lose customers, and gain possible negative feedback customers ("don't go there, they jerked me around for 6 weeks"). Accurate delivery / lead time estimates and quality work are the most important things (IMO) for a machine shop. That can really only be done by getting the machinist away from the phone and away from the books.
There are 2 sides to a machine shop. Work, and money. You will really need to have at least someone specialize in each in order to 'make it'. Stuff doesn't get done if you're on the phone or running the books. If you want to run the machines, find a partner to handle the 'outside' part, and you'll probably be successful.
From my observations, a good machine shop needs to turn out quality product, on time. You can likely get away with charging more for work, if your consistency of delivery and quality are high. Start doing the "I'll have it done by the weekend" for 4 or 5 weeks in a row, and you'll lose customers, and gain possible negative feedback customers ("don't go there, they jerked me around for 6 weeks"). Accurate delivery / lead time estimates and quality work are the most important things (IMO) for a machine shop. That can really only be done by getting the machinist away from the phone and away from the books.
09-27-2008, 05:43 PM
#5
My advice is, from a business stand point, don't do it.
This is one of the hardest fields to make a good living in. The cost of equipment is very high. The profit on parts is very low. The customers are demanding, and you will be building things, motors, cars, etc., that the customer is going to knowingly go out and beat the **** out of.
It will take someone very good at the machine work, and even if they are very good, it's very hard to get through the first few years as you build a reputation.
Then there's the money side. Better have a **** ton of it. Not just to buy all the equipment, but to float you for about a year, as you try and get your feet under you.
One of the best things you could do, if you choose to go through with it, is hire a local machinist who has a good rep, away from where ever they are working now. Chances are he would bring a good bit of work with him. Not to mention instant credibility for your new biz.
But back to my original statement. I would advise against it.
This is one of the hardest fields to make a good living in. The cost of equipment is very high. The profit on parts is very low. The customers are demanding, and you will be building things, motors, cars, etc., that the customer is going to knowingly go out and beat the **** out of.
It will take someone very good at the machine work, and even if they are very good, it's very hard to get through the first few years as you build a reputation.
Then there's the money side. Better have a **** ton of it. Not just to buy all the equipment, but to float you for about a year, as you try and get your feet under you.
One of the best things you could do, if you choose to go through with it, is hire a local machinist who has a good rep, away from where ever they are working now. Chances are he would bring a good bit of work with him. Not to mention instant credibility for your new biz.
But back to my original statement. I would advise against it.
09-29-2008, 05:12 PM
#6
ed is spot on. listen to him. he knows of what he speaks.
I am very good friends with a local machine shop owner.....hes been in the business for 30 plus years and is absolutely the best at what he does.
Hes thinking about moving into our shop because business has been slow and he wants to cut overhead.
This will be great for us because we will now have an in house machine shop, but it just goes to show that its a very hard business to be successful in if a 30 pro is having a hard time paying his bills.
I am very good friends with a local machine shop owner.....hes been in the business for 30 plus years and is absolutely the best at what he does.
Hes thinking about moving into our shop because business has been slow and he wants to cut overhead.
This will be great for us because we will now have an in house machine shop, but it just goes to show that its a very hard business to be successful in if a 30 pro is having a hard time paying his bills.
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10-08-2008, 11:35 AM
#8
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def. need an education. i work at Ray Barton Racing Engines doing machine work, assembly and dyno. the way the economy is right now, i would not try to start anything on my own.
10-08-2008, 02:38 PM
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10-17-2008, 12:08 PM
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I own a CNC machine shop and overhead will kill you until your name gets out. I only have one CNC, a higher end Mori and a couple of manual machines. I mainly build my own products in the gun industry. I work a ton of hours, average 12/day sometimes for weeks on end. I might be profitable this year (2 years full time in business). I am building a 68/LS Camaro to see what other products I can come up with. I also take in outside work from local companies. And I am thinking about offering custom one off parts for some of these kick butt builds you see.
Here is my honest opinion, Money doesn’t make me happy being happy and loving what I do, does. Find THAT one thing and go for it. If you don’t try you will never know. Whats the worst that can happen? You fail and have to start over? Its just money and the make it while you sleep…
Be diversified in whatever you do. If it’s a machine shop, definitely don’t put all your eggs in one basket especially a basket people can do without if times get tough
oh ya, and a mechinisht dont need to spel gud, just make parts gud
Here is my honest opinion, Money doesn’t make me happy being happy and loving what I do, does. Find THAT one thing and go for it. If you don’t try you will never know. Whats the worst that can happen? You fail and have to start over? Its just money and the make it while you sleep…
Be diversified in whatever you do. If it’s a machine shop, definitely don’t put all your eggs in one basket especially a basket people can do without if times get tough
oh ya, and a mechinisht dont need to spel gud, just make parts gud
10-20-2008, 03:58 PM
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I have been on the fence about starting a business like this as well
Id say for about 5 years now
Looking at the manufacturers - they are pushing electric cars now. Or at least hybrids. Diesel is now in Honda's line up and a diesel hybrid etc.
This is the question I keep struggling with - how will racing evolve with this new technology?
Do I spend the 30-40k at SAM plus another whatever amount for the machines and go at it?
Also what does your market look like? My brothers and I all bracket race at the local strip. There are also about 5 other strips within 2 hours drive, 3 short track ovals, and 2 road courses.
I know this year turn out is way down. However, the turnout was over 400 cars at pretty much each event. That is 400 potential clients. I have friends who road race and they say the same - turn out is down but it is still there.
Also dont forget that the Baby Boomers now have their kids out of the house and are nearing retirement. They want their hot rods to have nice motors. Another area of potential sales.
Research your market area. Know exactly who you are dealing with.
Also know your business. Do you want to just build and machine engines or do you want to do installs as well?
Know your competition - around my area there is not one place that will port heads - they all send the work out of town. In fact all the places here really just assemble and break in the motors and do very little machining.
Talk to your local SCORE (i think its score.org but google to make sure) they might not have engine builders/machinist but they might have auto repair owners or retired shop owners that can give you pointers for free.
Talk to banks. Yeah credit is supposedly tight, but both presidential candidates are saying they want to dump more money into sba which is good for all of us. I know i talked to a couple of banks about buying my old place of employment - some were not interested while others wanted to sign the loan papers now. Experience and about 30% into the business are needed for SBA (i think a house or real estate too) but it can be done.
Then budget the hell out of everything. If your machinery costs $500/mo rent is $1000/mo utilities $350/mo (just estimates) etc - know how much you need to make it. Also pay yourself very little like $10/hr. you can grab the profits when they start rolling in.
Location location location. Its not just about selling real estate anymore. I have a few locations picked out - one thing in common cheap rent and very close to a major highway/interstate. Easy to find and can attract people from bigger cities as well.
Advertising - look into the local web forums for your track, cruise nights, sports section, race tracks, word of mouth etc.
And finally commit to working 80-100+ hours a week until you get it going pretty well. But also make sure you add workers when you can to help and grow it - dont just be a slave to your business unless that is what you want.
One more thing - you can always start small inside your garage and go from there. Save up and buy a machine and some tools at auction for 20k or so.
When you get your name out there then look to expand further.
Its doable and while it may look like there is a lot of machine shops in your area - call and inquire about what they offer or how long their wait is this will give you a good idea if there is a place for your business or not.
Good Luck
Id say for about 5 years now
Looking at the manufacturers - they are pushing electric cars now. Or at least hybrids. Diesel is now in Honda's line up and a diesel hybrid etc.
This is the question I keep struggling with - how will racing evolve with this new technology?
Do I spend the 30-40k at SAM plus another whatever amount for the machines and go at it?
Also what does your market look like? My brothers and I all bracket race at the local strip. There are also about 5 other strips within 2 hours drive, 3 short track ovals, and 2 road courses.
I know this year turn out is way down. However, the turnout was over 400 cars at pretty much each event. That is 400 potential clients. I have friends who road race and they say the same - turn out is down but it is still there.
Also dont forget that the Baby Boomers now have their kids out of the house and are nearing retirement. They want their hot rods to have nice motors. Another area of potential sales.
Research your market area. Know exactly who you are dealing with.
Also know your business. Do you want to just build and machine engines or do you want to do installs as well?
Know your competition - around my area there is not one place that will port heads - they all send the work out of town. In fact all the places here really just assemble and break in the motors and do very little machining.
Talk to your local SCORE (i think its score.org but google to make sure) they might not have engine builders/machinist but they might have auto repair owners or retired shop owners that can give you pointers for free.
Talk to banks. Yeah credit is supposedly tight, but both presidential candidates are saying they want to dump more money into sba which is good for all of us. I know i talked to a couple of banks about buying my old place of employment - some were not interested while others wanted to sign the loan papers now. Experience and about 30% into the business are needed for SBA (i think a house or real estate too) but it can be done.
Then budget the hell out of everything. If your machinery costs $500/mo rent is $1000/mo utilities $350/mo (just estimates) etc - know how much you need to make it. Also pay yourself very little like $10/hr. you can grab the profits when they start rolling in.
Location location location. Its not just about selling real estate anymore. I have a few locations picked out - one thing in common cheap rent and very close to a major highway/interstate. Easy to find and can attract people from bigger cities as well.
Advertising - look into the local web forums for your track, cruise nights, sports section, race tracks, word of mouth etc.
And finally commit to working 80-100+ hours a week until you get it going pretty well. But also make sure you add workers when you can to help and grow it - dont just be a slave to your business unless that is what you want.
One more thing - you can always start small inside your garage and go from there. Save up and buy a machine and some tools at auction for 20k or so.
When you get your name out there then look to expand further.
Its doable and while it may look like there is a lot of machine shops in your area - call and inquire about what they offer or how long their wait is this will give you a good idea if there is a place for your business or not.
Good Luck
11-05-2008, 09:59 PM
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My advice is, from a business stand point, don't do it.
This is one of the hardest fields to make a good living in. The cost of equipment is very high. The profit on parts is very low. The customers are demanding, and you will be building things, motors, cars, etc., that the customer is going to knowingly go out and beat the **** out of.
It will take someone very good at the machine work, and even if they are very good, it's very hard to get through the first few years as you build a reputation.
Then there's the money side. Better have a **** ton of it. Not just to buy all the equipment, but to float you for about a year, as you try and get your feet under you.
One of the best things you could do, if you choose to go through with it, is hire a local machinist who has a good rep, away from where ever they are working now. Chances are he would bring a good bit of work with him. Not to mention instant credibility for your new biz.
But back to my original statement. I would advise against it.
This is one of the hardest fields to make a good living in. The cost of equipment is very high. The profit on parts is very low. The customers are demanding, and you will be building things, motors, cars, etc., that the customer is going to knowingly go out and beat the **** out of.
It will take someone very good at the machine work, and even if they are very good, it's very hard to get through the first few years as you build a reputation.
Then there's the money side. Better have a **** ton of it. Not just to buy all the equipment, but to float you for about a year, as you try and get your feet under you.
One of the best things you could do, if you choose to go through with it, is hire a local machinist who has a good rep, away from where ever they are working now. Chances are he would bring a good bit of work with him. Not to mention instant credibility for your new biz.
But back to my original statement. I would advise against it.
11-06-2008, 08:56 AM
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my parents own a machine shop. its small one with 3 other employees not including them. my dad and only one other guy actually does setups. my dad deals with all the customers and runs the shop. my mom does all the money and paperwork stuff. i feel bad for her cause she doesnt get an actual paycheck each week nor does my dad but they get paid per job. they have to watch their money really close. fortunately they dont have a problem with that.
at times its really busy and they are overloaded with work and dont have enough time to do them in a timely manner. there are times where hes working 7 days a week. for the most part the work is steady because we have a lot of people we work with. machines are A LOT of money, but spending that money on the equipment is going to make you money at the same time.
the good thing about having a machine shop is that you can always make whatever you need. you have all the tools you need and you can be creative. another thing is that if someone knows you have a machine shop, they will find something that they need made or done which can help business. everyone needs a machine shop for something.
owning your own business is always going to be more work than if you just worked for someone. the thing is you are the boss and can make your own hours. the more you work, the more you make. imo this is a good trade/skill to have and be in. there will always be a need for machinists. they make good money from what i know. my parents own a couple houses and properties, including where the business is located. they have their toys (cars). my dad only went to city college where he took machine shop classes. the business has been around for 30+ years where it started with my great grandfather working out of a garage. they seem to be lucky, they never took any business classes. just learned from experience. IMO you should do it if you think you will really love it and think you can handle running a business. To me it seems like a good career.
at times its really busy and they are overloaded with work and dont have enough time to do them in a timely manner. there are times where hes working 7 days a week. for the most part the work is steady because we have a lot of people we work with. machines are A LOT of money, but spending that money on the equipment is going to make you money at the same time.
the good thing about having a machine shop is that you can always make whatever you need. you have all the tools you need and you can be creative. another thing is that if someone knows you have a machine shop, they will find something that they need made or done which can help business. everyone needs a machine shop for something.
owning your own business is always going to be more work than if you just worked for someone. the thing is you are the boss and can make your own hours. the more you work, the more you make. imo this is a good trade/skill to have and be in. there will always be a need for machinists. they make good money from what i know. my parents own a couple houses and properties, including where the business is located. they have their toys (cars). my dad only went to city college where he took machine shop classes. the business has been around for 30+ years where it started with my great grandfather working out of a garage. they seem to be lucky, they never took any business classes. just learned from experience. IMO you should do it if you think you will really love it and think you can handle running a business. To me it seems like a good career.
11-06-2008, 11:43 AM
#15
Two of my friends have succesfully started with nothing and built up their machine shops. The formula that we came up with is very simple. Find a good paying customer to keep cashflow and orders coming in and buy your equipment. They also both kept their normal day jobs until they found that magic customer and just did small jobs on the weekend or at night. Like others have said overhead is outrageous so if you have the building plus a machine payment your doomed from the start. Older used equipment is fine for the local shop that is not a production shop. I dont believe you need to go to school either. Ive never been to school and can do just about anything, the things I cant do is only because I havent had the opportunity to use such equipment like 5axis and multi axis lathes.
By the sounds of it you want more of a performance shop with the ability to custom make parts. So some manual equipment and maybe a water jet or Hurco mill would be the way to go. All are very easy to use and teach yourself. Fabrication equipment benefit performance shops alot as well.
By the sounds of it you want more of a performance shop with the ability to custom make parts. So some manual equipment and maybe a water jet or Hurco mill would be the way to go. All are very easy to use and teach yourself. Fabrication equipment benefit performance shops alot as well.
