Tundra gets a diesel option for 2015
02-22-2014, 07:08 PM
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Tundra gets a diesel option for 2015 Sounds really promising... and with the Titan diesel right around the corner, I wonder if they're gonna start offering 3/4 and 1-ton models. Now GM and Ford need to start offering diesels in their 1/2 ton trucks. 
http://blog.caranddriver.com/toyota-...-a-diesel-v-8/
http://blog.caranddriver.com/toyota-...-a-diesel-v-8/
Originally Posted by Car and Driver
Come 2016, the option list for the next-gen Tundra will include a Cummins 5.0-liter turbo diesel. That oil-burner is predicted to be rated at 300+ horsepower and, in true diesel form, more than 500 lb-ft of torque. This should make Nissan product planners sit up and mumble “rats,” as this appears to be the same engine being developed for the redesigned Titan, which debuts next year.
02-22-2014, 08:14 PM
#4
Nice, will be interesting to see how it performs. Unfortunately the cost of diesel in the USA plus the extra upfront cost usually means the improvement in fuel mileage is canceled out. Sure it is more powerful, but this is a light truck and the gas engines are usually more than powerful enough.
02-23-2014, 02:16 PM
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02-23-2014, 03:22 PM
#10
As I'm sure everyone knows, the Dodge Ram 2500 and 3500 have been equipped with a I6 Cummins turbo diesel since, well, just about forever. Great engine, decent truck. The only real reason to buy a Dodge truck is because it's wrapped around a Cummins.
For a few years, Cummins has been working with Dodge to develop a new smaller turbo diesel for the 1/2 ton truck. The lighter trucks have much stricter emissions requirements.
Then when the economy went down the toilet, Dodge Ram was purchased by Fiat. Fiat makes their own small turbo-diesels, and has been for decades. so, the deal with Cummins was off. The I6 Cummins will still power the bigger trucks - for a while anyway. But Fiat wanted to use their own light duty diesel for the new Ram 1500. It's the same engine that's available in the jeep over the last couple of years. And in use around the globe for about a decade.
The new Ram 1500 with Fiat diesel engine hit the market last week. They're selling them faster than they hit the dealer floors.
So, what happened to the small Cummins? Well, Cummins needed a small truck for their engine, and Toyota needed something to bring their truck off the bottom of the sales chart. Now, it could be that the only reason to buy a Tundra is because it's wrapped around a Cummins.
But, this is a brand new Cummins engine, never in production until now, with all new parts and all new technology. I wouldn't buy one until it's been on the market for a while.
For a few years, Cummins has been working with Dodge to develop a new smaller turbo diesel for the 1/2 ton truck. The lighter trucks have much stricter emissions requirements.
Then when the economy went down the toilet, Dodge Ram was purchased by Fiat. Fiat makes their own small turbo-diesels, and has been for decades. so, the deal with Cummins was off. The I6 Cummins will still power the bigger trucks - for a while anyway. But Fiat wanted to use their own light duty diesel for the new Ram 1500. It's the same engine that's available in the jeep over the last couple of years. And in use around the globe for about a decade.
The new Ram 1500 with Fiat diesel engine hit the market last week. They're selling them faster than they hit the dealer floors.
So, what happened to the small Cummins? Well, Cummins needed a small truck for their engine, and Toyota needed something to bring their truck off the bottom of the sales chart. Now, it could be that the only reason to buy a Tundra is because it's wrapped around a Cummins.
But, this is a brand new Cummins engine, never in production until now, with all new parts and all new technology. I wouldn't buy one until it's been on the market for a while.
02-23-2014, 09:50 PM
#12
And that's why these new 1/2 ton trucks are going to be so popular. Truck owners have been asking for these for years.
I drive a 2500 with a 5.9l I6. I love this truck. It's so nice to have this much torque in something this large. I also live and drive at high altitude. As you know, NA engines lose 2-3% per thousand feet. A turbo brings that back. So I get 600+ ft/lb's regardless of the altitude. I love that.
The down side is that I only get 18mpg. When I bought the truck, diesel fuel was the cheapest fuel you could buy. Now it's the most expensive.
The early press releases say the 1/2 ton diesel will get over 30mpg and make about 400 ft/lb's of torque. That certainly outperforms the 1/2 ton gas engines, especially at altitude.
I drive a 2500 with a 5.9l I6. I love this truck. It's so nice to have this much torque in something this large. I also live and drive at high altitude. As you know, NA engines lose 2-3% per thousand feet. A turbo brings that back. So I get 600+ ft/lb's regardless of the altitude. I love that.
The down side is that I only get 18mpg. When I bought the truck, diesel fuel was the cheapest fuel you could buy. Now it's the most expensive.
The early press releases say the 1/2 ton diesel will get over 30mpg and make about 400 ft/lb's of torque. That certainly outperforms the 1/2 ton gas engines, especially at altitude.
02-23-2014, 10:48 PM
#13
As I'm sure everyone knows, the Dodge Ram 2500 and 3500 have been equipped with a I6 Cummins turbo diesel since, well, just about forever. Great engine, decent truck. The only real reason to buy a Dodge truck is because it's wrapped around a Cummins.
For a few years, Cummins has been working with Dodge to develop a new smaller turbo diesel for the 1/2 ton truck. The lighter trucks have much stricter emissions requirements.
Then when the economy went down the toilet, Dodge Ram was purchased by Fiat. Fiat makes their own small turbo-diesels, and has been for decades. so, the deal with Cummins was off. The I6 Cummins will still power the bigger trucks - for a while anyway. But Fiat wanted to use their own light duty diesel for the new Ram 1500. It's the same engine that's available in the jeep over the last couple of years. And in use around the globe for about a decade.
The new Ram 1500 with Fiat diesel engine hit the market last week. They're selling them faster than they hit the dealer floors.
So, what happened to the small Cummins? Well, Cummins needed a small truck for their engine, and Toyota needed something to bring their truck off the bottom of the sales chart. Now, it could be that the only reason to buy a Tundra is because it's wrapped around a Cummins.
But, this is a brand new Cummins engine, never in production until now, with all new parts and all new technology. I wouldn't buy one until it's been on the market for a while.
For a few years, Cummins has been working with Dodge to develop a new smaller turbo diesel for the 1/2 ton truck. The lighter trucks have much stricter emissions requirements.
Then when the economy went down the toilet, Dodge Ram was purchased by Fiat. Fiat makes their own small turbo-diesels, and has been for decades. so, the deal with Cummins was off. The I6 Cummins will still power the bigger trucks - for a while anyway. But Fiat wanted to use their own light duty diesel for the new Ram 1500. It's the same engine that's available in the jeep over the last couple of years. And in use around the globe for about a decade.
The new Ram 1500 with Fiat diesel engine hit the market last week. They're selling them faster than they hit the dealer floors.
So, what happened to the small Cummins? Well, Cummins needed a small truck for their engine, and Toyota needed something to bring their truck off the bottom of the sales chart. Now, it could be that the only reason to buy a Tundra is because it's wrapped around a Cummins.
But, this is a brand new Cummins engine, never in production until now, with all new parts and all new technology. I wouldn't buy one until it's been on the market for a while.
02-23-2014, 11:30 PM
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I'm good with this... I have been asking for 20yrs or more why more people don't buy diesel vehicles in the states. The reason for most, all those years... available of fuel. Now it's nearly everywhere(so it seems) and sales are picking up, but as has been said, the market share is still very small.
Hopefully more people will buy them and diesel fuel prices will drop, not that they shouldn't already be less than gasoline.
Hmm... Toyota AND Nissan both getting the same engine? WEIRD! Nothing short of a great idea, just the same. I've recently read that both Ford and GM have opted out of 1/2 ton diesels for now, Ford choosing turbo-gasoline and GM... Well, who knows, but they just updated and I feel they'll stick with the current stuff for awhile as usual. That said, many complaints have been shown to GM for not offerinf a turbo or diesel option while basically(and now definitely) everyone else is doing it.
Would it be a shock if our emissions standards are tougher than Europe? Not to me. Their fuel costs have been higher for decades, but the emissions weren't such an issue for a long time and our fine EPA people surely want to be the most well known in the world, so they're bound to be the biggest jackasses.
Hopefully more people will buy them and diesel fuel prices will drop, not that they shouldn't already be less than gasoline.
Hmm... Toyota AND Nissan both getting the same engine? WEIRD! Nothing short of a great idea, just the same. I've recently read that both Ford and GM have opted out of 1/2 ton diesels for now, Ford choosing turbo-gasoline and GM... Well, who knows, but they just updated and I feel they'll stick with the current stuff for awhile as usual. That said, many complaints have been shown to GM for not offerinf a turbo or diesel option while basically(and now definitely) everyone else is doing it.
Would it be a shock if our emissions standards are tougher than Europe? Not to me. Their fuel costs have been higher for decades, but the emissions weren't such an issue for a long time and our fine EPA people surely want to be the most well known in the world, so they're bound to be the biggest jackasses.
02-24-2014, 09:33 AM
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As I'm sure everyone knows, the Dodge Ram 2500 and 3500 have been equipped with a I6 Cummins turbo diesel since, well, just about forever. Great engine, decent truck. The only real reason to buy a Dodge truck is because it's wrapped around a Cummins.
For a few years, Cummins has been working with Dodge to develop a new smaller turbo diesel for the 1/2 ton truck. The lighter trucks have much stricter emissions requirements.
Then when the economy went down the toilet, Dodge Ram was purchased by Fiat. Fiat makes their own small turbo-diesels, and has been for decades. so, the deal with Cummins was off. The I6 Cummins will still power the bigger trucks - for a while anyway. But Fiat wanted to use their own light duty diesel for the new Ram 1500. It's the same engine that's available in the jeep over the last couple of years. And in use around the globe for about a decade.
The new Ram 1500 with Fiat diesel engine hit the market last week. They're selling them faster than they hit the dealer floors.
So, what happened to the small Cummins? Well, Cummins needed a small truck for their engine, and Toyota needed something to bring their truck off the bottom of the sales chart. Now, it could be that the only reason to buy a Tundra is because it's wrapped around a Cummins.
But, this is a brand new Cummins engine, never in production until now, with all new parts and all new technology. I wouldn't buy one until it's been on the market for a while.
For a few years, Cummins has been working with Dodge to develop a new smaller turbo diesel for the 1/2 ton truck. The lighter trucks have much stricter emissions requirements.
Then when the economy went down the toilet, Dodge Ram was purchased by Fiat. Fiat makes their own small turbo-diesels, and has been for decades. so, the deal with Cummins was off. The I6 Cummins will still power the bigger trucks - for a while anyway. But Fiat wanted to use their own light duty diesel for the new Ram 1500. It's the same engine that's available in the jeep over the last couple of years. And in use around the globe for about a decade.
The new Ram 1500 with Fiat diesel engine hit the market last week. They're selling them faster than they hit the dealer floors.
So, what happened to the small Cummins? Well, Cummins needed a small truck for their engine, and Toyota needed something to bring their truck off the bottom of the sales chart. Now, it could be that the only reason to buy a Tundra is because it's wrapped around a Cummins.
But, this is a brand new Cummins engine, never in production until now, with all new parts and all new technology. I wouldn't buy one until it's been on the market for a while.
Ram wanted their 1/2 ton diesel to have decent towing capabilities, but, more importantly, get great MPG's. MPG's is what is driving the 1/2 ton market right now. IMO, Ram made the right choice picking the VM 3.0 diesel over this Cummins, which wouldn't have been a game changer for the Ram line up.
02-24-2014, 10:17 AM
#16
diesel costs too damn much here to make it worth it imho if mileage is what you want.
few thousand more for a diesel version, then tack on the cost of the fuel being AT LEAST 30cents more per gallon and you have yourself a lost cause.
Diesels for me are only for people who truly NEED that torque and hauling capability. I see so many ******* guys and women driving these huge *** trucks aint got anything in them, pulling anything etc. thinking yeaaaaa...... youre doing a lot of work hauling your fat *** around aint ya bitch.
few thousand more for a diesel version, then tack on the cost of the fuel being AT LEAST 30cents more per gallon and you have yourself a lost cause.
Diesels for me are only for people who truly NEED that torque and hauling capability. I see so many ******* guys and women driving these huge *** trucks aint got anything in them, pulling anything etc. thinking yeaaaaa...... youre doing a lot of work hauling your fat *** around aint ya bitch.
02-24-2014, 12:07 PM
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I think diesel has been too expensive since 2004. That said, perhaps enough will be on the road to lower pricing. It's not likely in the world of oil, but one can hope.
Personally, I think RAM made a mistake opting to give up the highly trusted Cummins name on the side of its small diesel. 1st off, Cummins is HUGELY known in America and beyond, as one of the best diesel engine creators there is. 2nd, it's still one of the largest diesel engine makers in the world. 3rd, people TRUST that name and for good reason. 4th, NOBODY in America knows the company making this new small engine and many buyers will hold off for awhile because of that(long enough they may buy something else). 5th, Toyota and Nissan will apparently now get that engine RAM could've had... They have thus, opened the door for 2 competitors to snag sales from them... NOT a great business decision. Oh, and 6th, I'd be willing to assume on this... the Cummins is LESS EXPENSIVE and therefore, would be more profitable for RAM.
Yeah, I think this one was a blunder. That said, I'm STILL not convinced Ford or GM will move into the 1/2 ton diesel market in any rush. They KNOW it will cost sales of their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks and those are very profitable, which is exactly why they haven't offered a diesel in the 1/2 ton for so many years(I think forever in Fords case).
For Dodge to start offering a diesel though... and watch their competition get the engine they could've had... bad idea. Besides, you KNOW the Cummins is good, or Toyota wouldn't buy it!
Personally, I think RAM made a mistake opting to give up the highly trusted Cummins name on the side of its small diesel. 1st off, Cummins is HUGELY known in America and beyond, as one of the best diesel engine creators there is. 2nd, it's still one of the largest diesel engine makers in the world. 3rd, people TRUST that name and for good reason. 4th, NOBODY in America knows the company making this new small engine and many buyers will hold off for awhile because of that(long enough they may buy something else). 5th, Toyota and Nissan will apparently now get that engine RAM could've had... They have thus, opened the door for 2 competitors to snag sales from them... NOT a great business decision. Oh, and 6th, I'd be willing to assume on this... the Cummins is LESS EXPENSIVE and therefore, would be more profitable for RAM.
Yeah, I think this one was a blunder. That said, I'm STILL not convinced Ford or GM will move into the 1/2 ton diesel market in any rush. They KNOW it will cost sales of their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks and those are very profitable, which is exactly why they haven't offered a diesel in the 1/2 ton for so many years(I think forever in Fords case).
For Dodge to start offering a diesel though... and watch their competition get the engine they could've had... bad idea. Besides, you KNOW the Cummins is good, or Toyota wouldn't buy it!
02-24-2014, 03:31 PM
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I think diesel has been too expensive since 2004. That said, perhaps enough will be on the road to lower pricing. It's not likely in the world of oil, but one can hope.
Personally, I think RAM made a mistake opting to give up the highly trusted Cummins name on the side of its small diesel. 1st off, Cummins is HUGELY known in America and beyond, as one of the best diesel engine creators there is. 2nd, it's still one of the largest diesel engine makers in the world. 3rd, people TRUST that name and for good reason. 4th, NOBODY in America knows the company making this new small engine and many buyers will hold off for awhile because of that(long enough they may buy something else). 5th, Toyota and Nissan will apparently now get that engine RAM could've had... They have thus, opened the door for 2 competitors to snag sales from them... NOT a great business decision. Oh, and 6th, I'd be willing to assume on this... the Cummins is LESS EXPENSIVE and therefore, would be more profitable for RAM.
Yeah, I think this one was a blunder. That said, I'm STILL not convinced Ford or GM will move into the 1/2 ton diesel market in any rush. They KNOW it will cost sales of their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks and those are very profitable, which is exactly why they haven't offered a diesel in the 1/2 ton for so many years(I think forever in Fords case).
For Dodge to start offering a diesel though... and watch their competition get the engine they could've had... bad idea. Besides, you KNOW the Cummins is good, or Toyota wouldn't buy it!
Personally, I think RAM made a mistake opting to give up the highly trusted Cummins name on the side of its small diesel. 1st off, Cummins is HUGELY known in America and beyond, as one of the best diesel engine creators there is. 2nd, it's still one of the largest diesel engine makers in the world. 3rd, people TRUST that name and for good reason. 4th, NOBODY in America knows the company making this new small engine and many buyers will hold off for awhile because of that(long enough they may buy something else). 5th, Toyota and Nissan will apparently now get that engine RAM could've had... They have thus, opened the door for 2 competitors to snag sales from them... NOT a great business decision. Oh, and 6th, I'd be willing to assume on this... the Cummins is LESS EXPENSIVE and therefore, would be more profitable for RAM.
Yeah, I think this one was a blunder. That said, I'm STILL not convinced Ford or GM will move into the 1/2 ton diesel market in any rush. They KNOW it will cost sales of their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks and those are very profitable, which is exactly why they haven't offered a diesel in the 1/2 ton for so many years(I think forever in Fords case).
For Dodge to start offering a diesel though... and watch their competition get the engine they could've had... bad idea. Besides, you KNOW the Cummins is good, or Toyota wouldn't buy it!
02-24-2014, 05:04 PM
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See my post above, I completely disagree. This engine offers nothing new to the Ram line up... 1) if you want a diesel for pulling **** you would get the 6.7ltr cummins or a duramax or a powerstroke 2) pick up owners are ridiculously loyal, more so than any other auto market, What buyers are you going to pull from Ram, Ford, and GM to Toyota/ Nissan with a diesel? 3) Ram had first pick at this engine and turned it down for a reason and I think they know better than us how to stay competitive. 4) there is no way this cummins will be cheaper than VM 3.0ltr diesel... its a $4k option? And if it is cheaper, it will be minimally so.
THOUSANDS of RAM owners purchased their diesel truck for 1 reason and 1 reason only... The CUMMINS diesel.
If RAM truly knew how to stay competitive, theirs wouldn't have been the #3 selling American truck... since GM and Ford trucks...
As for cheaper, that was meant as "cheaper to use" by RAM. As it stands, they're paying for the engines and to ship them from Europe, which drives costs up.
More people, I'm totally convinced, are looking for diesel power, NOT for towing, but for fuel economy... Anyone in the 1/2 ton market isn't seriously working their truck in terms of hauling heavy trailers over the road. A few "hot shot" drivers will take, but that won't last them long because they'll quickly find out a 1/2 ton pickup is no 3/4 or 1 ton. The majority will be using them daily around town and just want more fuel efficiency. With that in mind, most won't care if it's a Toyota, RAM or Nissan. They'll follow the engine much more closely than the brand in the case of RAM. Typical buyers of the other 2 will simply have a PERK!
02-25-2014, 10:01 AM
#20
Agreed with It'll, I am interested in the Ram w/Diesel for it's fuel savings first (if the option and price of diesel doesn't outweight the savings), and second, that it will be able to effectively tow what the big engine gas 1/2 tons can tow.
1/2 tons towing ratings are generally limited by the frame and not so much the engine, and if you have ever towed anything, you know that diesel does it better.
The fact that I will only tow something less than 10% of the time I am driving the truck, while still needing a truck to haul crap in the back etc, means that I am very interested in a 1/2 ton diesel. Can't say I have any desire to buy a Japanese truck, but if Cummins powered, like It'll run says, I will consider at the least the Tundra when I am ready to buy.
1/2 tons towing ratings are generally limited by the frame and not so much the engine, and if you have ever towed anything, you know that diesel does it better.
The fact that I will only tow something less than 10% of the time I am driving the truck, while still needing a truck to haul crap in the back etc, means that I am very interested in a 1/2 ton diesel. Can't say I have any desire to buy a Japanese truck, but if Cummins powered, like It'll run says, I will consider at the least the Tundra when I am ready to buy.