MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/07/news...ion=2007110709

I keep seeing all of these threads ******* Toyota for reliability and slipping sales figures, but I guess that isn't the whole story...

From the article:

"Earlier Wednesday, GM rival Toyota Motor (Charts), which had been hit by sluggish sales in its two most important markets, Japan and the United States, nevertheless reported profit rose 11 percent and raised its earnings forecast for the full year."

Flame suit on!

Jakes Dad

Since I started several threads about GM kicking Toyota and everyone else *** in sales. I am happy to see I am first or near the top of the reply list.

Normally, before I respond I look at a posters I.D.. How many posts, how many At A Boys, and where they live. I see you live in Dayton Ohio - What the hell is up with that?

Since, I also live in the Dayton Ohio area. Since I sell GM products please allow me to explain your question.

Something about sales down but profits up and why no one had mentioned profits? In my threads I wanted to post the facts. GM is outselling Toyota and ever other auto brand in the US by big numbers.

But back to your question about profits. If a company is selling fewer cars and making more moey there is only one way to explain that. EVERYONE BUYING ANY TOYOTA PRODUCT IN ANY COUNTRY INCLUDING THE US IS PAYING TOO DAMN MUCH MONEY FOR THE PRODUCT. THEN WHEN YOU ADD IN THAT QUALITY IS ALSO SLIPPING. It's very easy to come to the conclusion that many Toyota buyers are over paying and need to do their homework.

It'llrun

Many Toyota buyers are buying the HYPE! They are convinced that Toyota makes a better product because they grew up hearing exaclty that... And sadly, from about 1975 through 1995, that was actually true. Today, Toyota marks are falling(thankfully, say US automakers) and some people are hearing about it soon enough to actually go look at a domestic rather than just imports.

Toyota makes a huge profit and the reason is simply, they cost far less to build than they sell them for. It truly is that simple. They sell Toyotas for plenty because they can. Of course, it doesn't help that US automakers have to pay outrageous wages to the average employee because the unions demand it. This clearly has cut into domestic profits for decades now.

dailydriver

^^^ That, as well as NO, O, NADA legacy costs for TOY, and let's not forget ALL of the benefits/capital they get (from us and our government) for having their transplants here (while taking credit for, and making it seem like they are doing it for "our" benefit ). It would be shocking if they were not "more profitable" as a company!!

Steve, I respect you as a board member, and we agree on many other things. I understand what you are trying to do here (show both sides, play "devil's advocate", etc.), but don't you think that we get enough of this on here already with the numerous importONLYfanTOYboyricetards (like 25/45psi/pssonu/modmotor/VTachforlife, etc. , and his ilk), that we don't need owners, and long term members doing it as well??!

ChaseSS

iTrader: (17)

its not all good news for GM in the profit realm, like their $39 billion hit... They have a loss this quarter (sorry to be the bearer of bad news) however, their longterm looks better and better

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

In then end that just further proves the disadvantage that American automakers face. Whether it is unfair trade, exchange rate manipulation, superior tax breaks from our own government, etc.

That and the UAW.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Don't get me wrong...GM is a huge company, and something like a $39 billion dollar hit really isn't that much in this ball game. But I think there is a good reason for this...

Since you sell GM products, maybe you can comment on why their customer service sucks so bad? I've had so many small things go wrong with my Camaro it isn't even funny...talk about shitty QC. I think the straw that broke the camel's back on this one was my sail panel bubbling on my car that has been immaculately cared for from the day I bought the car...why won't GM step up to the plate and admit they made a mistake and fix my car, even though it is out of warranty? This would fall under the latent defect category, considering the glue was chosen and applied to roof hoop before I even thought about buying one of these cars...

GM lost my business because I have had the worst experience at their dealerships. Every service manager I have met has either been incompetent or an *** hole, and I've lived in 4 places since I bought this car, 3 of which are geographically far apart.

Sorry...that's my rant, and is really the underlying issue why I'm upset with GM, and glad that it is showing up financially. IMO, they need a ground-up restructuring of their service department...they have provided anything BUT service to me.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

True, but I've been noticing a lot of nut-swingers lately that have blind brand-loyalty and really enjoy getting up on their soap box shouting at the wind in hopes that someone will side with them...inevitably, someone will, being that this is a GM site, and this is just my little way of poking back. In the end, this thread is nothing more than a gnat-bite on an elephant, but being that I've gone to the dark side (although I still have my Camaro, and probably won't sell it for a LONG time), it has become a little more clear to me why a person that has grown up with predominately domestic cars would be tempted to try something different.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

Not to prove or disprove you but you didn't mention GM's profits. Nor did you go into an INCOME STATEMENT.

You can have one business that is doing better but show lower profit for many reasons. In the corporate world, ofter you will spend considerable amounts improving facilities or developing new products. As long as everyone gets paid its no big deal.

Even if you look into the income statement, balance sheet, and cashflow statement you can still invest into a worthless company that looks cool on paper. heheh. But that will move into the topic of whitecollar crimes.

Jakes Dad

Damit MeentSS02. I posted a three page reply to your question. Then it wouldn't post.

Here is Readers Digest short reply.

Quality Control is an issue with all brands. I haven't sold all brands yet but I've seen and drive a very large number of cars.

So you're unhappy with the small issues happening to your 6 year old GM car? Wow, if you didn't buy it new be glad it shows no rust, still runs, still receives looks when you drive it. Do you think any Toyota product would do more?

It shows you also drive a new Titan. Hopefully you didn't pay cash for it. I've found I can make more money on my cash keeping it. FEW VEHICLES ARE AN INVESTMENT

All manufacturers have service issues. I have never seen any new car brand dealership with no service department, have you?

There is no excuse for poor quality.. All service departments should have commission sales associates. No one does this. There are probably less than 10% of the wrenches working at any brand dealership that are ASE-BRAND certified mechanics. If you took the plug and play computers away many wrenches would never identify a problem. There are more computers in cars today than were required to put a man on the moon.

When I express a view I don't consider it a flame. You like Toyota. The auto industry has come a long way since Henry Ford sold Black cars. Just keep an open mind. Things do change.

An old man and his dog!

2 FASST SS

Has anyone taken any business classes to get the real picture of all of these profit hits, and rebounds???

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

I had some business classes a long long time ago. Though, it is just so hard to judge a company with a snap shot. Even more so without knowing their true intentions and investments which came out of the profits.

Sorry if this is horribly offtopic but back in 1970 when Chevy was selling 1/3 of ever new car sold in the USA things were different and QC didn't matter in a world of yearly model changes and keep-it-for-3-years cars. GM was huge back then and it takes awhile for any juggernaut like that to get smaller.

In all honestly, if GM gets smaller they can more easily fix QC concerns, adapt to modern life, reimage theirself as a company on quality, and rise to the top again. Possible? Sure. Personally, I think in the next couple of years quality and safety will be the hot button of virtually North American.

Becoming smaller companies might help GM and Ford out a ton in a world where it is typical for someone to get a more optioned car and keep it for longer.

2 FASST SS

I agree, but then they get into the thing with the Union. They are probably looking at it in a [It's cheaper to keep her] kind of sense. From a business perspective, we just don't know what's going on. Because a company reports a huge loss for a quater or fiscal year does not mean they are done for (Apple Computers). I know you didn't say they were, but just putting it in perspective.

Hylton

Can someone please introduce me to a Toyota owner who bought their car new and are not happy with it? No you can't. I can show you plenty who are not too happy about their GM vehicle bought new. These LSx and Vortec motors are great performance wise but the sound of piston slap in two of my vehicles when I start them up cold drives me nuts!

It'llrun

Are you actually stating as fact that those who buy new Toyotas are ALL happy and have no complaints but those who buy GM cannot truthfully say the same? That's what it looks like and frankly, that's factually inaccurate from the word "go."

Infact, a recently completed study I read just today(Yahoo.com) stated that Buick was in a TIE with Toyotas' upper lineup, LEXUS, for overall customer satisfaction. The vehicles in question were 2004 or so and the study lasted till this year and included information from a slew of people who bought new and were apparently kept in touch with since that time.

http://www.buick.com/news/index.jsp?cmp=07IM_JDPower

Jakes Dad

Well let me think. Since the auto business ends each month, in the business, you can be a hero one month and the next month you start out with another 0000000000000000000000000. So, to answer your question I'll recall last month. OCTOBER

Yes, we took a 05 Seq something in on a Tahoe. Also one of the full size but not really a full size Toyota truck. When they, TOYOTA told the public they were building trucks but really weren't. The second person bought the newly redesigned Silverado Truck of the year.

Let me say something about something being a vehicle of the year. If enough magazines pick the best of something eventually everything will get recognized as being special ie vehicle of the year.

In both cases, the used vehicles were wholesaled. We don't do well with Toyota products. We can't certify a Toyota and they are over priced in my opinion.

I am happy when we think of a new vehicle Everyone can pick from more than one manufacturer. Surely, there are TOYOTA web boards. If you're looking for everyone here to roll over and play dead because you're right and everyone else is wrong - go for it: punch:

Everyone has an opinion. Post your thoughts I'll listen. In my 61 years I've learned every street has two sides to it. I understand your opinion based on your experiences.

An old man and his dog!

someone said we were slow and it was time go home - bye!

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

Very very few people have this issue compared to the general comsumer not what you hear on the net.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/bl...ndra-problems/

There is a list. Noisy engines, vibrations, etc. And that is just one year/model. Toyota is not perfect, dont fool yourself.

I can however tell you about my 98 Monte Carlo that needed nothing but maintenance and a battery in the 7 years I owned it.

warpwr

My '96 4Runner is probably the best new vehicle I have ever owned. Solid and reliable. The only thing I've ever had done besides routine maintenance is to recharge the air conditioner.

But I have loved all my Chevy's too....
'02 SS Camaro (zero defects except the sail panel paint),
'56 Delray (no defects, but it ain't stock either) and
'83 K20 Diesel (it's had injector problems and alternators and stuff but that's about it), that I own right now plus a few others I have owned in the past.

Thinking about trying an M3 V8 BMW next to see how it holds up instead of the new Camaro. How are their profits?

2000 SILVERADO

I've only been to the dealership once so far (I can't remember what it was but it was a very minor problem) and in the last 3 years of owning my truck, I've gone wot HUNDREDS of times. No problems so far.