tlorenzen

Details. 07 CTS-V, LS2, 142k Miles

At 142k miles I lost a lifter (left side, 2nd from front) and a chunk of it broke off. Long story short, I tore the top end down, put in new LS7 lifters, BTR3 cam, dual valve springs, titanium retainers, new push rods, upgraded trunions and found the chunk of lifter in the oil pan. This problem is NOT top end related.

When I first heard this sound, I thought it was the oil pump. I was spinning the crank with heads off and no chain on the cam yet and heard it. This is why I say it's not top end related. The sound when spinning by hand almost sounds like something solid scraping up against something thin. Which leads us up to my current status.

I have the front subframe dropped, the oil pan off, and the windage tray out (thought crank was scraping the windage tray from setting engine down on pan). Turns out this is not the issue. So now, I have the engine suspended by straps from the strut bar, an open bottom end and am not sure where to go next.

I found a broken rubber gasket in the oil pick up tube. It looks like the one that goes on the crank snout for the harmonic balancer. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the noise or not.

Below videos are car running with the new cam in, and spinning the crank by hand.




I'm open for any suggestions and questions.

bmylez

iTrader: (3)

I would be interested to see if something is banging around in the transmission...

Naf

iTrader: (1)

I hate to say it, but you may have had some debris get into a bearing and it messed it up royally.

I would swap the bearings out and be done with it.

Hopefully you didnt scratch the journal

SE-R Spec

iTrader: (2)

I'm not trying to scare you but you Might as well go ahead and pull the motor and do a quick bearing swap on the crank and Pistons since you are this far... Take it to a machine shop as well to make sure the crank bore doesn't need line honed. Talking from my own experience, do not think to yourself "it'll be ok" just in case it is not. $700 vs $2,000 I know where my money would be headed.

Nader454

That 3rd video makes me think clutch/bellhousing. Good luck!

voodoochikin04

iTrader: (3)

I've had my experience with bad crank bearings and that last video just doesn't feel like bad crank or rod bearings. It's that last video that really sounds like tension creaking... Such as something with the clutch assembly.

Anthony Toal

I am another for the clutch, I just pulled my engine out yesterday and it was making similar noise like on the 3rd video

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

In the third video we *are* talking about the sound only from 0:36-0:37 right?

BudRacing

iTrader: (3)

I'm wondering if the trans has something to do with it too. Have you tried depressing the clutch (with a block or assistant) and turning it by hand?

Anthony Toal

I was talking about the whole video, not when he initially applies force, but there is a light scraping noise after the creaking, and then you hear that noise at 0:36-0:37.

Also, i noticed in the first video some water? or something dripping from the front, seized water pump maybe? I would remove the accessory drive line from the equation and do what Budrecommended with pushing the clutch in. That way you can rule out those two variables

tlorenzen

When I had the car running, I pressed clutch and changed gears and spun tires etc. while the car was in the air and the noise did not change any which makes me think it's not in the trans.

I have a new LS7 clutch setup with about 1500 miles on it or so. The sound didn't exist pre lifter failure and I honestly didn't hear it when the car was running during diagnosis after the lifter had failed.

Oil pressure was good. I think it was 38psi cold.

I have a few more videos I will try to upload over lunch or after work.

The noise Chris (Mercier) is talking about is the noise that worries me and the one that I think is whats causing the actual noise. It seems to happen about every full revolution of the crank.

Anthony, the water dripping is coming out of the radiator in the first video. I broke the top little plastic nipple putting it back in. Water pump is less than a year old. I had car running with accessories off and still had the same noise.

The noise did pick up with rpm increase, and seemed to go away at 3,500 rpm. Not sure if that was the point at which the car got louder than the noise or if it actually disappeared.

Anthony Toal

Breaking nipples suck, just did it yesterday on mine while pulling the engine out. Gonna drill and tap it with a fitting, along with a wire on the AC connector, fml

Well at 3500 rpmthat it when the oil psi really pick ups which could be masking the problem or helping. If it happens to do it every full revolution, then hopefully it is just a bad bearing and not a journal. I would definitely go through the rotating assembly though. My concern would be, when you found the piece of lifter in the oil pan, that some pieces of metal could have gotten picked up.

tlorenzen

I forgot to mention the car is throwing two codes as well. Car isn't tuned yet so didn't think much of them.

P0106 - Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) System Performance
P0340 - Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Circuit

I wonder if the noise heard when running is separate from the noise heard from hand turning the crank. Although, to me it sounds just amplified of the scraping noise.

So I guess my next step is to start pulling bearings and look for wear. Annoying to be doing this while its in the car and after I already had the top end off but that's the joys.

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

I think you should strongly consider asking a mod to move this to the Gen IV Internal Engine Forum. A lot of very knowledgeable and experienced folks over there. Your issue will get much better exposure. No insult intended to the V group here, but there are guys in the other forum that have probably built 20+ of these. More likely one of them has experienced this issue

07V

Ok! First of all I'd love to welcome you to the swallowed lifter club! My engine decided it wanted to eat my lifter a couple of months ago. You can check my post history and you'll see I only asked one question. I asked if my lifter bore clearance was still good(it wasn't). If you want the full story feel free to ask and I'll write a longer reply but the short story is:

My #6 intake lifter's needle bearings gave up.

I pulled the heads off, dingle-berry honed my lifter bore.

I took off too much metal to get it smooth again.

I smashed it all back together with new lifters/cam anyway and crossed my fingers.

I had 5psi hot oil pressure.

I pulled the motor and discovered every single bearing in the motor was bad.

I sent it to the machine shop with a new crank(old one was too gouged for polishing OR turning).

I had them put all new bearings in it(surprisingly the rods were ok), and I had them sleeve that lifter bore.

I put it back together with new rings, and new bearings, and new gaskets, and new o-rings(basically anything that you can replace, i did replace).

It runs fantastically now.

38 psi cold seems pretty low to me. I bet you'd be in the low teens/high singles hot. You need to pull your motor and break it ALL THE WAY DOWN. Inspect every bearing, and the crank. Check That lifter bore clearance.

While you have it out/apart you should check your motor mounts, get a remote bleeder if you haven't, replace front/rear mains, all that good stuff. Do everything you have to have the motor out to do now that it's out(duh).

If you have any questions at all feel free to hit me up. I JUST did this last month. It's still fresh on my mind. If you're around me I'll even come over and help.

Here's pictures and video for proof.

http://imgur.com/a/m8uOH

Nader454

I would look at the cam position sensor. To me, it sounds like the magnet dragging on the reluctor wheel.

tlorenzen

07 V, thanks for the insight. I did not see any markings on the lifter bore, but failed to measure it to make sure it was perfect, so I'll keep that thought open. Traditionally on the stock pump my car would run about 32ish psi warm, so 38 seemed pretty close. (car was slightly warm when I checked pressure).

Anywho, I think I'll pull the rod bearings how the engine sits to just see if there's any wear. I know the bearings on the cam had wear but not bad enough to warrant concern from what I've read.

Did you leave the trans in the car or pull it with the engine?

Nader, I'll check it out. The noise of me hand cranking the engine has the timing chain cover off but I won't rule out the noise being separate.

I'm already over budget and time that I had planned on spending but that's the "racekar" life I suppose. Should just pull it and do a forged bottom...It's just money right?

BudRacing

iTrader: (3)

Unless you're planning a build for over 1000hp, forging the bottom end is unnecessary--but I also assume you're joking.

FuzzyLog1c

iTrader: (4)

If you're going to do anything over 600 RWHP, you should replace the rod bolts and pistons, which are the weak links in the rotating assembly.

07V

I left the trans connected. Total it took around 6 hours to get the long block/trans out. All I removed was the intake and exhaust, and accessories. Radiator too obviously, and I removed the pulley while it was in the car just because doing it on a stand is a pain. I also pulled the motor mounts off when it was on its way out because they were catching on the subframe. You'll need one of those angle things to put on the end of the cherry picker. Just d/c the trans from the driveshaft, get everything ready, drop the trans cross member, then drop the *** of the trans. Take the shifter linkage completely off the trans(the snap ring things) then you're good to go. All said and done it's about 20 hours of work total. Honestly not that bad at all. If you do it on a Saturday you can have it all the way out, all the way broken down before the sun goes down!