LS2 Dyno Results: Headers, FAST 102
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LS2 Dyno Results: Headers, FAST 102
After a successful install of Kooks 1 3/4" with HF cats and a FAST 102 ported by Tony Mamo at AFR, the car posted some decent numbers.
My baseline numbers (K&N CAI only) netted 336 RWHP & 335 TQ untuned.
Today the car did 381 RWHP & 368 TQ. The best run came in at 385/380, but the car didn't like it, and some timing was pulled back out of it. Better safe than sorry. So that's +45rwhp/+33tq.
While I'm happy with the results, the biggest question mark will be realizing the potential of that FAST 102. I really don't want to go much further with the car; it's my daily driver and I'd rather save the $ for a V2. But I think a small cam is in my future to seal the deal.
My baseline numbers (K&N CAI only) netted 336 RWHP & 335 TQ untuned.
Today the car did 381 RWHP & 368 TQ. The best run came in at 385/380, but the car didn't like it, and some timing was pulled back out of it. Better safe than sorry. So that's +45rwhp/+33tq.
While I'm happy with the results, the biggest question mark will be realizing the potential of that FAST 102. I really don't want to go much further with the car; it's my daily driver and I'd rather save the $ for a V2. But I think a small cam is in my future to seal the deal.
Last edited by dudesweet; 04-30-2012 at 01:28 PM.
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After a successful install of Kooks 1 3/4" with HF cats and a FAST 102 ported by Tony Mamo at AFR, the car posted some decent numbers.
My baseline numbers (K&N CAI only) netted 336 RWHP & 335 TQ untuned.
Today the car did 381 RWHP & 368 TQ. The best run came in at 385/380, but the car didn't like it, and some timing was pulled back out of it. Better safe than sorry. So that's +45rwhp/+33tq.
While I'm happy with the results, the biggest question mark will be realizing the potential of that FAST 102. I really don't want to go much further with the car; it's my daily driver and I'd rather save the $ for a V2. But I think a small cam is in my future to seal the deal.
My baseline numbers (K&N CAI only) netted 336 RWHP & 335 TQ untuned.
Today the car did 381 RWHP & 368 TQ. The best run came in at 385/380, but the car didn't like it, and some timing was pulled back out of it. Better safe than sorry. So that's +45rwhp/+33tq.
While I'm happy with the results, the biggest question mark will be realizing the potential of that FAST 102. I really don't want to go much further with the car; it's my daily driver and I'd rather save the $ for a V2. But I think a small cam is in my future to seal the deal.
Nice numbers!!
I second the cam...you should end up around 420RWHP with a very streetable cam.
Couple of questions -
How much was the FAST 102?
What launch technique did you use to get that 13.1/111 1/4 time?
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As far as my launching, I just squeeze the throttle and go. I leave everything alone including TC. And that's the reason I didn't get a 12.xx time with a 111 trap. I'm too nervous about breaking the rear end. So nice and easy for me. It was also very cold...and the -900 DA was most helpful.
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After a successful install of Kooks 1 3/4" with HF cats and a FAST 102 ported by Tony Mamo at AFR, the car posted some decent numbers.
My baseline numbers (K&N CAI only) netted 336 RWHP & 335 TQ untuned.
Today the car did 381 RWHP & 368 TQ. The best run came in at 385/380, but the car didn't like it, and some timing was pulled back out of it. Better safe than sorry. So that's +45rwhp/+33tq.
While I'm happy with the results, the biggest question mark will be realizing the potential of that FAST 102. I really don't want to go much further with the car; it's my daily driver and I'd rather save the $ for a V2. But I think a small cam is in my future to seal the deal.
My baseline numbers (K&N CAI only) netted 336 RWHP & 335 TQ untuned.
Today the car did 381 RWHP & 368 TQ. The best run came in at 385/380, but the car didn't like it, and some timing was pulled back out of it. Better safe than sorry. So that's +45rwhp/+33tq.
While I'm happy with the results, the biggest question mark will be realizing the potential of that FAST 102. I really don't want to go much further with the car; it's my daily driver and I'd rather save the $ for a V2. But I think a small cam is in my future to seal the deal.
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Definitely heads and cam. But a cam will likely add significant numbers.
That said, I don't think I only gained 5 hp with a FAST. Most of the dyno sheets I've seen with CAI/headers were in the mid-360 range. Not saying the FAST resulted in 15-20 either. Just think 5 is too low.
That said, I don't think I only gained 5 hp with a FAST. Most of the dyno sheets I've seen with CAI/headers were in the mid-360 range. Not saying the FAST resulted in 15-20 either. Just think 5 is too low.
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Definitely heads and cam. But a cam will likely add significant numbers.
That said, I don't think I only gained 5 hp with a FAST. Most of the dyno sheets I've seen with CAI/headers were in the mid-360 range. Not saying the FAST resulted in 15-20 either. Just think 5 is too low.
That said, I don't think I only gained 5 hp with a FAST. Most of the dyno sheets I've seen with CAI/headers were in the mid-360 range. Not saying the FAST resulted in 15-20 either. Just think 5 is too low.
Anyway this is ls2 with just headers and hiflo cats for reference. I know our cars and dyno's are not identical but these sheets appear very similiar at all rpm's.
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I will be interested in what a small cam brings you since you stated daily driver earlier. I am all about putting miles on the V averaging about 20-25k a year. Let us know all the details.
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Those are solid gains Derrich....
Where is the overlay between the old baseline run and the new runs.
The power and especially the flat torque curve are excellent.
I also bet you there are areas in the curve comparison that show more than the peak gains you claim. The car should feel notably stronger, especially because I suspect the area under the curve gains and power past peak are pretty fat.
Considering a stock set of heads and a stock cam Im not sure how you could have realistically expected more.
Can you have your dyno shop overlay the baseline run and the run you posted above. Btw....how did you know the engine "didnt like" the tune when it was making 385 RWHP. The tuner might have simply opted to be overly safe which I see quite often. If the engine made more power it was happy or it wouldn't have made more power. Im not saying backing it off a degree or two is a bad idea, but I typically run my stuff where it makes the most power assuming the A/F ratio isn't crazy lean and there is no sign of knock retard.
Truthfully, if you weren't happy with these gains or the way the car feels now with the added power you didn't approach this in a sensible fashion. Considering your missing the two largest ingredients in the airflow (power) pipeline....Im referring to heads and cam of course, I think you should be very satisfied with your results.
The right small cam would wake this car up 45-50 RWHP with zero penalties in drivability.....get in touch with me if your thinking of going down that road.
Enjoy the new power....I bet the car feels great
-Tony
PS.....Get the overlay posted (baseline versus new curve) so folks can see the entire picture and post this in the dyno section. I bet you the general response is very positive and most would feel you got your money's worth. $50-$60 a pony is what you typically spend to improve the performance of your vehicle and the more power you make the more expensive it becomes. I would say your right in the hunt for my rule of them to be close. The cam is the biggest bang for the buck in an N/A combo but once thats out of the way expect to spend about what I said and more to improve performance.
Where is the overlay between the old baseline run and the new runs.
The power and especially the flat torque curve are excellent.
I also bet you there are areas in the curve comparison that show more than the peak gains you claim. The car should feel notably stronger, especially because I suspect the area under the curve gains and power past peak are pretty fat.
Considering a stock set of heads and a stock cam Im not sure how you could have realistically expected more.
Can you have your dyno shop overlay the baseline run and the run you posted above. Btw....how did you know the engine "didnt like" the tune when it was making 385 RWHP. The tuner might have simply opted to be overly safe which I see quite often. If the engine made more power it was happy or it wouldn't have made more power. Im not saying backing it off a degree or two is a bad idea, but I typically run my stuff where it makes the most power assuming the A/F ratio isn't crazy lean and there is no sign of knock retard.
Truthfully, if you weren't happy with these gains or the way the car feels now with the added power you didn't approach this in a sensible fashion. Considering your missing the two largest ingredients in the airflow (power) pipeline....Im referring to heads and cam of course, I think you should be very satisfied with your results.
The right small cam would wake this car up 45-50 RWHP with zero penalties in drivability.....get in touch with me if your thinking of going down that road.
Enjoy the new power....I bet the car feels great
-Tony
PS.....Get the overlay posted (baseline versus new curve) so folks can see the entire picture and post this in the dyno section. I bet you the general response is very positive and most would feel you got your money's worth. $50-$60 a pony is what you typically spend to improve the performance of your vehicle and the more power you make the more expensive it becomes. I would say your right in the hunt for my rule of them to be close. The cam is the biggest bang for the buck in an N/A combo but once thats out of the way expect to spend about what I said and more to improve performance.
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 05-01-2012 at 12:44 AM.
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Thanks for chiming in, Tony. And you're right...based on several dyno sheets I found and on our discussions, I expected 380. We pulled 385 out of it and settled for 381. I'm supposed to get the baseline/mod overlay today via email. I'll post it once it's here.
As far as the 385 rwhp/380 tq run the car made, the car knocked right up at the top. The run was nearly peaked, and it coughed a couple of times right at the end. So he decided to pull a couple of degrees back off. I was happy with that decision. My priority is definitely a safe tune.
As far as the 385 rwhp/380 tq run the car made, the car knocked right up at the top. The run was nearly peaked, and it coughed a couple of times right at the end. So he decided to pull a couple of degrees back off. I was happy with that decision. My priority is definitely a safe tune.
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considering it is difficult to find fast 92s around, and at times used ones sell for more than the new 102...was wondering if I went with a fast 102 and a 90tb just so I dont over do it will I lose power with a 102 vs a 92? I know the tbody will be the limiting factor for this N/A engine. However I know if I decide to ever go turbo I can change it to a 102 if needed. I have all the bolt-ons including a cam 227/233 at 113lsa. I know some people say 102 is overkill but will I lose power with it in my ls6?
#20
Thanks for chiming in, Tony. And you're right...based on several dyno sheets I found and on our discussions, I expected 380. We pulled 385 out of it and settled for 381. I'm supposed to get the baseline/mod overlay today via email. I'll post it once it's here.
As far as the 385 rwhp/380 tq run the car made, the car knocked right up at the top. The run was nearly peaked, and it coughed a couple of times right at the end. So he decided to pull a couple of degrees back off. I was happy with that decision. My priority is definitely a safe tune.
As far as the 385 rwhp/380 tq run the car made, the car knocked right up at the top. The run was nearly peaked, and it coughed a couple of times right at the end. So he decided to pull a couple of degrees back off. I was happy with that decision. My priority is definitely a safe tune.
You may have had some false knock....the headers and the intake swap will effect the knock sensors (headers are like a pipe organ....LOL). You can adjust the sensitivity of those but safe is good. Point is I look at this exercise like you picked up 50 HP from the manifold/header swap (and a bunch of torque), and If I recall your still running the 90 mm LS2 TB (a 102 TB is worth 3-5 more....5 on a hotter combo).
The reality here is a sizable portion of the gains cam from the intake swap....not the other way around. Headers are typically worth 15 - 20 HP at most (with stock heads and cam)....maybe 15 ft/lbs of torque or so. When you do the overlay I think your going to see close to a 40 ft/lb gain in torque at 4000 RPM's! (a very bonus point in the curve to feel a gain like that).
I did some quick digging for CTSV header swaps with dyno and came up with these two snippets.
In the first case the gains are with a blower which should really like a header swap and produced so-so results....the second example is a 1 7/8 header which always looks about 5 or so HP better in peak power but is usually down in torque in the lower/middle part of the power curve compared to the same header with a 1.75" primary tube.
I think when you see your overlay compared to the one above (and others) you will be glad you dropped dime on that intake and keep in mind that even with the large gains you saw from it, you haven't fully tapped into what it has to offer yet primarily due to your stock heads and cam, not to mention the proper fitting 102 TB (I'm not 100% but I think your running a ported LS2 90mm unit still with this set-up).
Realize that the better the heads the larger the gains going with a higher flowing more efficient manifold. As the heads get better, the stock manifold becomes more and more a restriction, thats why an application with a really good heads will see a larger gain swapping to the better intake but as your combination also proves, there is still alot to be had even with the stock heads and cam. As the mod bug keeps biting you some of your future gains from a cam or possibly a head swap will be from tapping into the flow this manifold has to offer that your current combo hasn't quite exploited yet.
I know you were on the fence about this and I essentially promised you results or should I say strongly encouraged you to continue down the path you had started. I hope as you read a bit more and do some digging around you will come to realize everything really did work out as best could be expected.
Alright guys....sorry for the novel!
So how does the car feel??....have you driven and played with it much?
Cheers,
Tony
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 05-01-2012 at 07:14 PM.