01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

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ls1_lover

HI, I got the transmission from transdepot.

I am so looking forward to finally getting this car to run good. It has been struggle to be honest. First I drove around in it for about 3 months trying to figure out why the heck it was pinging so bad.. All the so called "wisdom" on this board did not tell me that my coil packs were bad. I had to figure it out myself after buying the hptuners software and doing my own diagnostics and serious learning. Ok, it was tough but I am better for it now. So I got the thing to not ping.. Hooray... then i put on the long tubes.. drove it for about 2 days and the tranny takes a crap. I have a strong feeling that the tranny was already bad when I bought the car at 82k and not it has 93 but hey, Now I get a better tranny in there. So I pray that NOW I will finally be able to really enjoy this car without any expensive problems. Am I dreaming???? Will this car always be breaking? 14 years old.. When I look at it and drive it it feels great. However, I know that every wire and plug and hose is 14 years old. What is going to break next? Even something like a starter or alternator will be 300 plus bucks to fix at the mechanic. I originally got this car because I thought that it would be a inexpensive way to have a performance car. If I keep fixing it it will be a 2002 camaro that I paid 10k for and put in another 7 or 8. So this car that I can only sell for abour 7 now I have 15 in after the tranny is done. Ok, not a dissaster but not a great deal either. I love driving it and I want to keep it i just dont want a money pit.

Docrocket1967

iTrader: (1)

Ls1_lover you got nothing to worry about man. Yeah you are shelling out some $ up front to be able to enjoy but if you think about it alot of guys on here have had to do similar things at one time or another. I have one i have never had to replace a major part on, just routine maintenance abd it has never let me down except one 02 sensor issue BUT at some point there will be new coils, transmission, power steering pump and so on in my future. Its just life but they are cery dependable and if you plan on keeping it for some time you will definitely have more time enjoying it then working on it....you are just getting some of the rain cloud a little early and later on when its all good someone else will be enjoying that rain cloud lol

ls1_lover

Thanks Doc!. That is what I wanted to hear. What do you think about that tranny I posted the link to?. The tranny in the car now was probably already bad. What happened was it was shifting really smooth. I wanted firmer shifts so I started messing around with the line pressure. Then after a few weeks and the added HP from the headers it started with gear 2 to 3 to slip really bad. I suspect the tranny was already compromised as when I bought it I noticed the pan on the tranny is not the original and one of the bolts was broken. So someone was in there for some reason but when I bought the car it was running fine. I knew I would have issues down the road but I wanted to try performance car owning like this. I have always bought newer cars. Spent a lot on them upfront.. and taken a bath when I sold them. Truth is that the 2010 I had bought had 26k at the time I purchased it . I drove it to to 55k but at 36k the universal blew up. I got lucky. Chevy covered the replacement in warranty but it really just goes to show you that any performance car can cost you money at any time.. even the new ones.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

In general, such a thing does not exist. Some guys have had luck with cheaper, higher mileage examples but in general it's going to cost you one way or the other; either you buy a really nice expensive one that probably won't have too many issues in the near or mid term, or you buy a cheap one with a ton of miles that will likely need repairs right away - especially if you plan to drive it like a performance car. I don't think there is any free lunch here, but occasionally you might get lucky.

Having said that, 14 years old isn't really that old in regards to many of those components you've mentioned. Hard parts will be more affected by mileage than by age (there's still some original stuff on my '71 that works just fine after 46 years, and my '98 is almost entirely original at 19 years old.) But things do get "used up" when they're in constant service and see spirited usage. You'd have to buy a brand new car with a warranty to avoid the worry, but of course that comes with an even bigger price tag.

clinebarger

The problem is.....People want to much money for these cars, They were mid-20's brand new with a warranty then someone beats the **** out of it for 50,000 miles then wants $15,000 for it.......

Us enthusiast as a whole need to stop over paying for these cars.....Things would normalize VERY quickly.

blackandgold

iTrader: (2)

You aren't taking into account inflation or the fact that there is still a demand but zero new supply. Like it or not 4th gen f-bodies have a stronger following than say a '98 camry. Why do I care what cars other people can afford as long as I can afford the one I want.

ls1_lover

I think they were more like 30k when they were new and that is without tax.. out the door they were more like 35k

https://images.craigslist.org/00Q0Q_...mK_600x450.jpg

If you want a good F body you will have to pay 10 or more. There are a lot of them that have not been maintained and driven non the less for around 5k. Your going to have to put 5k in them right away.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

No, only the higher trim level versions (and/or convertibles) were at or above $30k. All three of my Z28s ('98, '99, '02) had base prices between $20,500 and $22,000 - with final sticker prices of $24-26k with a bunch of options.

There's an LS1 SS for sale on this site with just 7k miles for $16k. You should be able to get an LS1 Camaro with under 50k miles for $9-13k depending on year, trim and options. You'll get more for your money with a Z28, $10k would get you a very low mile nice example for sure.

lentzc

I just bought a 99 Z28 with every option with 65k miles for $6500. You wouldn't believe how clean and how stock this car is. (was, not so stock anymore)

Revo1

Gen 4 = <3

RockinWs6

The visibility of the 5th gen completely kills the car. I almost bought 2 5th gens but backed out both times do to feeling like I can't see around me in traffic. Very uncomfortable to drive feeling like you may hit something you can't see at any time. Another thing I find odd is the dash, I feel like I'm sitting a big old fashioned bath tub I can see out of going down the road. Pretty weird really.

93TAWicked1

iTrader: (28)

I have both, a 2011 supercharged SS with z28 suspension and zl1 brakes. Its a fun car...its pretty quick...feels heavy. Cruising around its very comfortable but spirited driving feels on edge although controllable. Looks and fit and finish it is a way nicer car (IOM with ZL1 body and hood)

I have owned 6th 4th gens including a 99 454 LSX car with all the supporting stuff. Currently have a 2001 SS M6 as a commuter car. It feels more natural to me but then I've driven 4th gens since 93.

They are two very different cars. Yes the rear visibility and changing lanes is always fun in the 5th gen!! but overall car I give the edge to the 5th gen. if it wasn't so big and heavy...I'm afraid to check out a 6th because I might buy it...

hawkfiend

The 5th (and 6th) are really ugly cars IMO, and I've never warmed up to either of them. I drove a 5th SS, and while I appreciate the powertrain and fit & finish, the terrible outward visibility and overall feel of the car (it feels huge) left me utterly disinterested in buying one. And I like the appearance of the 6th even less. Except for the 6th ZL1, I don't mind that (except for the front, which is absurd). 3rd and 4th Gens for me.

Spamfritter

iTrader: (1)

I've owned several 3rd and 4th gen F-bodies and I've driven all of the modern muscle cars for their last three iterations. Compared to a fourth generation car, I have several issues with the 5th and 6th generation Camaro. I miss the T-Tops and the car's visibility sucks. Additionally, I am not a huge fan of their styling. I hate the design of the interior and it felt really cheap on the 5th gens. Granted, it's improved over the fourth generation cars, but I think some of Chevrolet's competition did it better. I never found the car all that comfortable either. Basically, as far as I am concerned nearly every aspect of the design was off in some way. I like the power train for the most part, but that's about it. The 5th generation was a big bloated pig and it drove like one. If I wanted that, I'd have gone with the Challenger which I thought looked better and had better visibility. It also made more power some of the time.

The 6th gens are more svelt and the interior quality has improved. I'm still not a big fan of the design of it, but its certainly better. Visibility is still a problem though. Pricing is another issue. While they seem comparable on paper, I've always been able to get Mustang's just as well or better equipped for less. Basically, I feel like Ford's Mustang is generally the better choice in terms of bang for your buck. I also think its interior design is vastly superior. It's a weird thing to say because I've always had a preference for the Camaro and Firebird over anything Ford ever built until a few years ago. All of that aside, my biggest problem with the 5th and 6th generation Camaro is simply how they feel to drive. The throttle response is off. The clutch feels vague to me. I can never feel where it engages. I'm sure if I had one longer I could figure that out, but it felt far less intuitive than Ford and Dodge's offerings. Lastly, I felt disconnected from the steering. It felt like a driving wheel hooked up to a Playstation.

In short, everything about the car just feels a little bit off. Meanwhile, I think Ford nailed it with it's S550 and continues to make it better all the time. The leap from the 2011-2014 cars to the 2015 was among the largest I've ever seen. Even going from a 2016 to a 2020 was bigger than you'd think. Even though the Challenger feels dated, there is a certain cool factor about them. It feels like a raw and unapologetic throwback to the early 70's. It doesn't handle particularly well, but it feels like the ultimate cruising machine. It's comfortable and big, but never feels unwieldy to me despite its limitations in the handling department. I felt disconnected from the Camaro in a way that never allowed me to feel confident in driving it.

I know people that love their 5th and 6th generation cars, but I never could. I've test driven them fairly regularly and I like the idea of having a 6th generation SS next to my 2001, but I just don't like them enough to spend $40K+ on one. I know the above paragraphs make it sound like I absolutely hate the Camaro, but that's not really accurate either. I'm a muscle car kind of guy. I don't really like anything else in the car world. Unfortunately for Chevrolet, the Camaro is basically third on my list of preferences for the new cars out right now. I'd have a new Camaro over most of what's on the market, but right now, I prefer the Mustang and Challenger over the Camaro.

I think you nailed it here. I've had an F-body nearly my entire adult life. As a result, they feel right. They feel natural. I naturally ended up with a bias against the newer Camaro's because they are too different. I don't have the same hangups with the Mustang or the Challenger, so as a result I can appreciate them for what they are. In contrast, I can only see the new Camaro as being wrong somehow no matter how good it really is. Part of the problem is that the fourth generation F-body felt like a perfected version of the 3rd generation cars. The 5th and 6th generation Camaro's don't feel like they share any lineage with the F-body. That's because they don't. Aside from some styling queues from the first generation cars, they really are their own thing.

Launch

There's just something unique and special about driving a 4th gen, over so many other cars. I remember when i first bought mine i drove it back home a 7 hour trip and i was amazed that i felt that i hadn't driven anywhere near as far as i just had. It was just that effortless to drive. Mine already had lowered black eibach springs and new kyb shocks in it when i bought it, and it handled so well that corners felt almost non existent. I've driven the same route in some other cars and the difference is night/day how much less ergonomic some cars are compared to a 4th gen.

I also love how they sit so low to the ground, like legit supercar low. Pics on the internet really don't do them justice. And another bonus is they also fit big rear tires without much effort.

I'd seriously only give up my 4th gen for a new ferrari or lambo.

Ace111799

iTrader: (6)

I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I'll preface this by saying that I have never even sat in a 5th or 6th gen. Never was wild about the 5th, The 6th looks pretty cool but I dunno.

I have owned an 83 Firebird (2.8, 5 sp) a 92 Camaro RS (5.0, 5sp) and now my 02 Camaro SS (6sp). I bought that car in 2003 second hand with low miles.

I will say my taste in vehicles has changed since then. I used to daily drive it but then I got a beater 93 Wrangler, (no AC & usually no doors or windows) I loved that thing as well. Any more I am used to my Silverado. Comfortable, quite, great visibility.

When I get into the Camaro on a nice sunny day, especially right now when spring is here and you get those first few days in the high 60's low 70's with no humidity. that thing just feels like a dream. It's not a car it's a time capsule. It reminds me of my younger years, getting into trouble, no real responsibility when all I cared about was girls, partying and cars.

All these new cars are fine I'm sure. But you don't get that sentimental feeling.

Now granted, the 02 Camaro is loud, has stinky exhaust, is horrible to drive in the rain or at night. If I'm in it too long I start getting tired of it. But it has a place in my heart that would make me hard pressed to ever sell it.

I think the 4th generation is the best of both worlds. The era where horsepower was back, no carburetors, has modern comforts. But not so new that you have all the fancy gizmos like AFM, and VVT and crash avoidance bull crap that really just take away from what the muscle car really represented in the beginning. And that was....to be young and free!

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Lots of great posts in this thread. I especially agree with the thoughts about sentimental attachment, a reminder of an earlier and simpler time in our lives. I've been a 4th gen owner for 21 years now, I bought my first one brand new, shortly after getting married. In some ways life was actually more hectic back then, I'm much more settled and comfortable now, but youth is a special time with a sort of wonder that can't really be duplicated. Pleasant reminders of this time always bring a big smile. The REALLY simple days for me were spent in my '71 Cutlass and then '89 Formula 350 - and my current '71 Nova and '98 Z28 are the direct ownership lineage of those two cars, offering a highly reminiscent and desirable driving experience that's vastly different from anything modern.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

I bought my first one in my hometown at the dealership where my brother was working. He drove it back to KS for me from CA, and this was his comment - this car is so well designed ergonomically. Think of it, with your hand on the shifter, adjusting the sound system, HVAC, everything is so easily within reach.

In my Formulas, I'm "in" the cockpit - the way the seat cradles me, the way that all the controls are within easy reach; compared to our G8, where I feel I'm sitting "on" the seat and have to stretch to do anything with the controls. Of course, then there's the LS1, the relative simplicity of the vehicle, and last but not least - t-tops.

That being said, the one drawback to the 4th gen is the harsh ride. After 21 years of daily driving them, it's starting to get to me. That's where the G8 shines - much improved ride and still, taut handling. 5th gens are based on the same Zeta chassis as the G8. For another 100lbs. in the G8 you get the same suspension, similar powertrain, plus seating for five, great visibility, and a good sized trunk. What's the downside compared to a 5th gen?

5th gens are impractical in so many ways, including the fact that you can't see out of them. 6th gens have grown on me; I like the size and some of the contemporary examples look great to me. But I've never sat in or driven one.

4th gens to me are irreplaceable, like the great 64-72 GM A-body musclecars. Both of these designs featured great styling, a comfortable cabin, good visibility, solid performance for their day, and endless potential for modification.

I think that the G8 also belongs to that category, despite having four doors. Now that we have grandkids and the wife is back in a minivan most of the time, I'm starting to play with "her" car

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I couldn't agree more with this. I've owned a wide range of cars as daily drivers, but I've never been more comfortable than in a 4th gen F-body; they truly fit me like a glove. At one point, I went directly from daily driving a '96 Bonneville to an '02 Z28 for my long distance expressway commute, and the Z28 honestly induced MUCH less fatigue on all aspects of my body after my then-typical several hour commute. The seating position and placement of all driving and accessory controls in a 4th gen is so ideal for me that I can drive one for literally hours on end without needing a break.

Even this aspect hasn't ever been an issue for me but, admittedly, I'm not daily driving one any more. I can handle some pretty harsh ride conditions though, so I might not be one to really notice this. My '71 has HD multi-leaf springs with traction bars and pretty harsh shocks, so it rides almost exactly like a forklift...and even that is manageable to me on these horrible northern IL roads for some pretty long cruises during the summer. In fact I actually find it enjoyable as a toy, but if I had to daily drive that car I could see that setup getting old. In comparison, a 4th gen F-body rides as smooth as a D-body Fleetwood to me.