GM Hot rod oil pan kit.. bad pick-up
08-09-2012, 04:00 PM
#1
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GM Hot rod oil pan kit.. bad pick-up This is a known issue behind the scenes I am told but no one will really step up and take their blame on this.
The GM hot rod oil pan kit comes with a pick-up that is not close enough to the bottom of the oil pan. It needs to so sit 1/4-3/8" away from the bottom of the pan. Its not even close and you can not "get it there at all without altering it dramatically. Its my understanding that this kit is used on a few crate engine and that there have been issues with crate engines blowing up..LOL
The pan is fine if the car is motionless or just sitting on an engine dyno but when you add inertia ( cornering , braking, launching) to the equation the lack of proper depth the to pick then becomes an issue.
This was an easy find for me. You always check your oil pick up to pan gap. Just like you never leave anything for granted. That is if you know want to do a good job anyway. This kit is common. It think its a hummer pan to begin with. The pan and windage tray fit fine but the pickup is a blown engine waiting to happen. No way to correct it unless you weld in a piece. It sits over and inch from the bottom of the pan. If you just bolt it on and go your in for trouble.
The GM hot rod oil pan kit comes with a pick-up that is not close enough to the bottom of the oil pan. It needs to so sit 1/4-3/8" away from the bottom of the pan. Its not even close and you can not "get it there at all without altering it dramatically. Its my understanding that this kit is used on a few crate engine and that there have been issues with crate engines blowing up..LOL
The pan is fine if the car is motionless or just sitting on an engine dyno but when you add inertia ( cornering , braking, launching) to the equation the lack of proper depth the to pick then becomes an issue.
This was an easy find for me. You always check your oil pick up to pan gap. Just like you never leave anything for granted. That is if you know want to do a good job anyway. This kit is common. It think its a hummer pan to begin with. The pan and windage tray fit fine but the pickup is a blown engine waiting to happen. No way to correct it unless you weld in a piece. It sits over and inch from the bottom of the pan. If you just bolt it on and go your in for trouble.
08-09-2012, 08:47 PM
#2
Known issue by whom? So you were told, doyou have any first hand knowledge of this? Sound like more of the its on the interwebzzz so it has to be true. First I ever heard of this, disclose your source or pictures or measurement data. I installed this pan on my LS2 and I had 1/2" of clearance from pan to pickup. If you do enough reading on this site there are probably hundreds of people using that LH8 Hummer pan and I have yet to read of someone losing an engine due to oil starvation due to incorrect pickup to pan clearance.
Last edited by lizeec; 08-09-2012 at 09:26 PM.
08-09-2012, 09:03 PM
#3
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Spoke to a builder today who is on the "in" when it comes to knowledge and GM.
A few of the shops on here just started to figure it out. I have two of the kits ... thought I was crazy and got a bad kit at first so I got one from a well known vendor on here and it was the same thing. 3/8" max is what you want.
I wont mention names as it never ends well when you do that. But I can assure I checked it 10 times and it's effed up. And yes some of the crate 454's with the same setup have had issues. I wont metion my sources name as he asked me not to and you can believe what you want but I have the proof in my hands. No I am not going to do a cut-away on the pan so you can see what I am talking about. I put a 1" ball of clay on the pickup and bolt the pan down. It never touched it. I made the ball 2" and it squished about a half inch leaving a 1 1/2 inch pancake... simple procedure....
The pan and pickup combo is not good simple as that.
I knew it right away and called the most respsected builder on these boards and he verified it with me and gave me the inside scoop. Word
A few of the shops on here just started to figure it out. I have two of the kits ... thought I was crazy and got a bad kit at first so I got one from a well known vendor on here and it was the same thing. 3/8" max is what you want.
I wont mention names as it never ends well when you do that. But I can assure I checked it 10 times and it's effed up. And yes some of the crate 454's with the same setup have had issues. I wont metion my sources name as he asked me not to and you can believe what you want but I have the proof in my hands. No I am not going to do a cut-away on the pan so you can see what I am talking about. I put a 1" ball of clay on the pickup and bolt the pan down. It never touched it. I made the ball 2" and it squished about a half inch leaving a 1 1/2 inch pancake... simple procedure....
The pan and pickup combo is not good simple as that.
I knew it right away and called the most respsected builder on these boards and he verified it with me and gave me the inside scoop. Word
08-09-2012, 09:26 PM
#4
Like I said show me a thread of someone losing an engine due to oil starvation due to incorrect pickup to pan tolerances. And by the way the lsx crate 454 does it come with a oil pan, much less a LH8 pan.
08-09-2012, 10:03 PM
#6
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I personaly dont care what you believe or not. This site drops threads in a heartbeat if it makes a vendor look bad so dont even bother me on it. I know what I was told and its a trusted source. He said 85% of the known failures are due to this reason. People dont post up their own stupidity and I wont say twice about the integrity of threads on here when it comes to vendor mistakes. You believe what you want.
I also know what I have in my hands. I am warning anyone who is putting an engine together to check your oil pick up to pan clearance for proper gap.
The GM hot rod kit being sold is not proper. I was told they ran out of the correct pickup so this one was used and it was tested on an engine dyno and all was fine. But an engine dyno isnt driving down the road and 1" to 1.5" is not what is called for.. neither is 1/2 inch. The shop I nought the kit from said that hadnt heard of the issue. The builder I talked to who deals with them and a few others said they do know about it. But no one is owning up to it. Telling you names would get me banned in a heartbeat..LOL
Check your pan to pick-up clearance !
I also know what I have in my hands. I am warning anyone who is putting an engine together to check your oil pick up to pan clearance for proper gap.
The GM hot rod kit being sold is not proper. I was told they ran out of the correct pickup so this one was used and it was tested on an engine dyno and all was fine. But an engine dyno isnt driving down the road and 1" to 1.5" is not what is called for.. neither is 1/2 inch. The shop I nought the kit from said that hadnt heard of the issue. The builder I talked to who deals with them and a few others said they do know about it. But no one is owning up to it. Telling you names would get me banned in a heartbeat..LOL
Check your pan to pick-up clearance !
08-10-2012, 01:23 AM
#7
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Its always a good idea to verify the sump depth. But, obviously if someone is autox'ing, off roading, or doing hard launches they will have an oil accumulator or someother means of protection. Heck its cheap ins. There are lots of off road guys who **** LS motors with stock pans. So what one is doing effects, what pan you actually need common sense dictates that. IE a stock pan or one that is baffled. Nothing really new.
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08-10-2012, 08:24 AM
#8
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Its always a good idea to verify the sump depth. But, obviously if someone is autox'ing, off roading, or doing hard launches they will have an oil accumulator or someother means of protection. Heck its cheap ins. There are lots of off road guys who **** LS motors with stock pans. So what one is doing effects, what pan you actually need common sense dictates that. IE a stock pan or one that is baffled. Nothing really new.
The LS1 calls for 3/8 max clearance... no reason to be selling a kit that wont meet that requirement. Doesnt matter if its your grandma putting down the street or Bob Bondurant... proper is proper and this kit isnt close to it.
08-10-2012, 08:46 AM
#9
Well I'm still calling bullshit, GM makes that pan and you are telling me that if they are a sponsor on LS1Tech that they would be dropped as a sponsor? That pan has been out for many years and people if they have a gripe on a inferior part that caused them to lose a motor do you seriously think they would keep quiet about it?
Your source is full of it as well, so they told you that GM ran out of pickup tubes and substituted another pickup tube and then decided they need to put this engine on a dyno to test the new pickup? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?
Your source is full of it as well, so they told you that GM ran out of pickup tubes and substituted another pickup tube and then decided they need to put this engine on a dyno to test the new pickup? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?
08-12-2012, 08:03 AM
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Well I'm still calling bullshit, GM makes that pan and you are telling me that if they are a sponsor on LS1Tech that they would be dropped as a sponsor? That pan has been out for many years and people if they have a gripe on a inferior part that caused them to lose a motor do you seriously think they would keep quiet about it?
Your source is full of it as well, so they told you that GM ran out of pickup tubes and substituted another pickup tube and then decided they need to put this engine on a dyno to test the new pickup? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?
Your source is full of it as well, so they told you that GM ran out of pickup tubes and substituted another pickup tube and then decided they need to put this engine on a dyno to test the new pickup? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?
Do you have the kit in your hands? I do. Two of them. Both are improper. One came from an Ebay gm vendor... sells on here as well.. the other came from a power vendor on here.
This isnt rocket science kids, it was easy to detect. I called a builder who other builders call for advice and to get things fixed they cant handle themsleves. I trust him. Take the advice as you will do as you want.
The pickup gap in incorrect. The powers that be know about it. I drop one name and you would shut up and believe me but that person asked me not to so I wont.
GM and the people distributing the kit are not liable if you blow up your engine as its your own fault for not checking the gap. This is what I was told.
I am putting a car together, you can see my thread and how we got to this thread. I was just trying to put the freaking oil pan on correctly and it couldnt be done.
I did some research and decided to report what I found out to help people not have to deal with the same crap.
Of course I should have realized it would be be met assininity on this site by a person or two.
Adding this: I dont care what a person does if they believe me or not. I discovered something I thought was important to share with others.
I'm done with it. Do what you will, I've done my part. I will unsubscribe from the thread and leave it. Not going to argure with people over this...hahahahaha Certainly not worth the time I have put into this thread already when you get met with kids who dont have a clue about how things work or are supposed to be done...
" I have 1/2 inch gap and its fine"... LOL... yeah your no one I would trust to change my oil with that lack of attention to a simple detail
Last edited by Ellesone; 08-12-2012 at 08:15 AM.
08-12-2012, 11:06 AM
#16
I don't understand why some threads become pissing matches. A guy finds out some info that could help others, posts it up, and people want to argue about it? Take the information at face value, do with it what you want, maybe all the kits aren't made exactly the same, and some people have the correct gap, but to go off on someone for posting up a 'caution', I just dont get it.
08-12-2012, 11:51 AM
#17
I don't understand why some threads become pissing matches. A guy finds out some info that could help others, posts it up, and people want to argue about it? Take the information at face value, do with it what you want, maybe all the kits aren't made exactly the same, and some people have the correct gap, but to go off on someone for posting up a 'caution', I just dont get it.
08-12-2012, 12:38 PM
#18
I agree too. I feel bad that the pan(s) are not working.
Are you able to return at least one? My 78 had the LH8 (muscle car pan?) pan in it when I bought it....it hangs waaaaaaay too low on a 2nd gen. I had a fbody pan...but with the BRP mounts, the fbody pan was a tad too close to the crossmember. I called and spoke with BRP ( nice people by the way). The owner gave me the option of mailing both of my used pans to him, and he would give me a CTS -V pan (new). I chose to keep my fbody pan, send it to street&performance to shorten the length of the rear sump, and sell my LH8 pan on eBay. The CTS -V is a nice pan, but it does hang ~an inch below the crossmember. The fbody pan sits flush with the crossmember, shortening it only lessened my oil capacity by 0.5 quarts. Again, best of luck....
Leon
Ls1nova71 , you have some amazing talent! Do you have a link to your 33 ford roadster? I hope to run into you someday at the hotrod power tour.
Are you able to return at least one? My 78 had the LH8 (muscle car pan?) pan in it when I bought it....it hangs waaaaaaay too low on a 2nd gen. I had a fbody pan...but with the BRP mounts, the fbody pan was a tad too close to the crossmember. I called and spoke with BRP ( nice people by the way). The owner gave me the option of mailing both of my used pans to him, and he would give me a CTS -V pan (new). I chose to keep my fbody pan, send it to street&performance to shorten the length of the rear sump, and sell my LH8 pan on eBay. The CTS -V is a nice pan, but it does hang ~an inch below the crossmember. The fbody pan sits flush with the crossmember, shortening it only lessened my oil capacity by 0.5 quarts. Again, best of luck....
Leon
Ls1nova71 , you have some amazing talent! Do you have a link to your 33 ford roadster? I hope to run into you someday at the hotrod power tour.
08-12-2012, 08:27 PM
#20
I don't understand why some threads become pissing matches. A guy finds out some info that could help others, posts it up, and people want to argue about it? Take the information at face value, do with it what you want, maybe all the kits aren't made exactly the same, and some people have the correct gap, but to go off on someone for posting up a 'caution', I just dont get it.