LS1 vs LS2
12-16-2012, 10:52 AM
#1
LS1 vs LS2 Hey guys, I'm looking at doing an LS conversion in my '67 Camaro this winter and I'm looking at full LS/T56 dropouts. My 350 sbc just spun a rod bearing, and the 4spd Saginaw is on it's way out as well.
It looks like an LS1/T56 (2001-2002 Fbody) can be had for around $1500 less than an LS2/T56 (2005-2006 GTO).
Assuming budget was a concern, would you go for the LS1 setup and throw an extra $1500 into mods or just go for the LS2? What if you had an extra $2500 to throw into the LS1 vs an extra $1000 towards the LS2?
I have already figured in the extras like harness, tune, headers, motor mounts, etc. since either setup will require them. I'm just looking at best bang for the buck between the LS1 and LS2, and also the potential for future growth.
It looks like an LS1/T56 (2001-2002 Fbody) can be had for around $1500 less than an LS2/T56 (2005-2006 GTO).
Assuming budget was a concern, would you go for the LS1 setup and throw an extra $1500 into mods or just go for the LS2? What if you had an extra $2500 to throw into the LS1 vs an extra $1000 towards the LS2?
I have already figured in the extras like harness, tune, headers, motor mounts, etc. since either setup will require them. I'm just looking at best bang for the buck between the LS1 and LS2, and also the potential for future growth.
12-16-2012, 10:55 AM
#2
I guess another option would be to look at an older LS1 if I could get it cheaper, and swap out the intake with the additional savings.
An LQ4/LQ9 is always an option, but I don't think I could live with the look of the truck accessories or intake, and adding in the cost of a T56 or TKO would probably end up more costly than an LS/T56 dropout.
***
Forgot to add that this is not a daily driver, but not a dedicated track car either. It will see most of it's time as a cruiser, with a few Auto X's each year. Everything else on the car has already been updated. Hotchkis suspension, Wilwood brakes, 12 bolt, etc. I'd like to be in the 400-450 rwhp range. A lot of my buddies have modern German cars (Audi S5, BMW M3, Porsche 911, etc), and don't view a 45 year old Chevy as much competition.
An LQ4/LQ9 is always an option, but I don't think I could live with the look of the truck accessories or intake, and adding in the cost of a T56 or TKO would probably end up more costly than an LS/T56 dropout.
***
Forgot to add that this is not a daily driver, but not a dedicated track car either. It will see most of it's time as a cruiser, with a few Auto X's each year. Everything else on the car has already been updated. Hotchkis suspension, Wilwood brakes, 12 bolt, etc. I'd like to be in the 400-450 rwhp range. A lot of my buddies have modern German cars (Audi S5, BMW M3, Porsche 911, etc), and don't view a 45 year old Chevy as much competition.
12-16-2012, 03:38 PM
#4
LS2 has much more potential and might be the cheaper of the two options.
The LS2 already has the better heads and LS6 type cam that most everyone upgrades to at a minimum. Plus the LS2 has full floating pistons, a higher compression ratio, a higher RPM limit, a larger bore, much hotter ignition coils, better timing chain. One of the big improvements was a better block with improved oil control, better oil pan baffling and the LS6 style PCV system.
If you want to upgrade the bigger bore means you can upgrade the LS2 to L92 heads. Can't do that with the LS1.
LS2 does have the drive by wire throttle, so you will need a gas pedal with it.
The LS2 is just a vastly improved engine.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com..._look_feature/
The other thing to think about is they redesigned the T56 between those two model years. The early, LS1 style T56's tend to have shift fork issues requiring an expensive rebuild. in fact, if the 2001 tranny hasn't been rebuilt you might want to put aside that $1500 cost difference for the highly likely rebuild.
The LS2 already has the better heads and LS6 type cam that most everyone upgrades to at a minimum. Plus the LS2 has full floating pistons, a higher compression ratio, a higher RPM limit, a larger bore, much hotter ignition coils, better timing chain. One of the big improvements was a better block with improved oil control, better oil pan baffling and the LS6 style PCV system.
If you want to upgrade the bigger bore means you can upgrade the LS2 to L92 heads. Can't do that with the LS1.
LS2 does have the drive by wire throttle, so you will need a gas pedal with it.
The LS2 is just a vastly improved engine.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com..._look_feature/
The other thing to think about is they redesigned the T56 between those two model years. The early, LS1 style T56's tend to have shift fork issues requiring an expensive rebuild. in fact, if the 2001 tranny hasn't been rebuilt you might want to put aside that $1500 cost difference for the highly likely rebuild.
12-16-2012, 05:31 PM
#5
Thanks Pop N Wood. Any good links to those T56 issues?
For the cost of a rebuild, I'd rather go with a low mile LQ and a brand new TKO or even a new T56.
If I get something with DBW, I'll be sure to get the pedals.
Whatever I get, I know I'll end up doing a cam, heads and intake at some point down the road.
For the cost of a rebuild, I'd rather go with a low mile LQ and a brand new TKO or even a new T56.
If I get something with DBW, I'll be sure to get the pedals.
Whatever I get, I know I'll end up doing a cam, heads and intake at some point down the road.
12-16-2012, 05:37 PM
#6
Whatever I get, I know I'll end up doing a cam, heads and intake at some point down the road.
If you were going to stay near stock then you would be better off with the better design and components of the LS2. But since you're going to be replacing the entire top end anyway you're only difference will be in the bottom end. While the bottom end of the LS2 is better, in the end the cheaper LS1 with the better top end will come out on top.
12-17-2012, 05:44 AM
#7
Redtan is probably right. But with an LS1 you will be restricted to cathedral port heads so you might end up buying a set of 243's anyway. Unless you plan on going for a set of aftermarket. There are several good companies that port 243's, so starting with them will save some $$.
Plan it out a bit and just keep looking for deals.
Google or search on here for the t56 shift fork issues. They had problems popping out of 3rd gear and trouble going into 4th. You might try calling one of the many trans sponsors on here and get their advice. You don't hear about the problem as much any more because the 2001 and earlier cars are getting less in numbers.
Plan it out a bit and just keep looking for deals.
Google or search on here for the t56 shift fork issues. They had problems popping out of 3rd gear and trouble going into 4th. You might try calling one of the many trans sponsors on here and get their advice. You don't hear about the problem as much any more because the 2001 and earlier cars are getting less in numbers.
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12-17-2012, 06:32 AM
#8
Great info guys.
If I go the LS1/T56 route, I'll make sure to look for an '02 F-body or an '04 GTO.
I have a couple months to search, so I can look for a good deal. I just need to be up and running for next spring.
I can find a reasonably priced low mile LQ4/9 locally and stick with my 4spd for another season if all else fails. It would just be a little easier to do it all at once. But if I went LQ I could probably do the cam/heads/intake all before next season...
If I go the LS1/T56 route, I'll make sure to look for an '02 F-body or an '04 GTO.
I have a couple months to search, so I can look for a good deal. I just need to be up and running for next spring.
I can find a reasonably priced low mile LQ4/9 locally and stick with my 4spd for another season if all else fails. It would just be a little easier to do it all at once. But if I went LQ I could probably do the cam/heads/intake all before next season...
12-17-2012, 08:15 AM
#10
With the Lq's you could always swap to LS intake manifolds, cam, and heads ! They typically have less compression so that's room for S/C or T/C in the future. I swapped a 04' z06 cam, tbss intake, ls1 heads(241's) onto my turbo 4.8 build(still in-work).
12-17-2012, 08:34 AM
#11
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I had to make the same decision over the summer and I went LS1 / T56 over LS2 / T56 or 5.3 swap.
I had considered making a 5.3 truck motor work with my T5 or a Tremec, but frankly, after adding up all the costs of making it work, it was nearly the same price for an LS1 / T56 as a complete drop out and the drop out was alot less hassle than gathering all the parts to piece it together. Don't just add up the large stuff as a swag, add up every single part required to make the swap work, and you will be surprised how much it truly costs to make it all work, especially if you go manual trans.
Also I have no plans for building a race car and, 400-420 hp will be plenty for me. That being said I was even happy with a 1998 swap which was cheaper than the newer swaps. If you want something that just fun to drive around, whatever is cheapest will work fine at your power level, so long as it's not beaten and broken.
I had considered making a 5.3 truck motor work with my T5 or a Tremec, but frankly, after adding up all the costs of making it work, it was nearly the same price for an LS1 / T56 as a complete drop out and the drop out was alot less hassle than gathering all the parts to piece it together. Don't just add up the large stuff as a swag, add up every single part required to make the swap work, and you will be surprised how much it truly costs to make it all work, especially if you go manual trans.
Also I have no plans for building a race car and, 400-420 hp will be plenty for me. That being said I was even happy with a 1998 swap which was cheaper than the newer swaps. If you want something that just fun to drive around, whatever is cheapest will work fine at your power level, so long as it's not beaten and broken.
12-17-2012, 08:36 AM
#12
I went with the LQ9 and swaped out the intake with an LS1 ($35). My original intent was to go with the L92 heads, cam, etc, but I quickly discovered the LQ9 was enough engine for my 68 vette on stock wheels/tires. The iron blocks also cost about 1/3 the price of aluminum.
Btw, the Saginaw is about the weakest trans around, take it easy on it. When I did my swap, I went with a Richmond 6 speed. It's pretty much a direct swap for the 4 speed.
Btw, the Saginaw is about the weakest trans around, take it easy on it. When I did my swap, I went with a Richmond 6 speed. It's pretty much a direct swap for the 4 speed.
12-17-2012, 11:49 AM
#13
I had to make the same decision over the summer and I went LS1 / T56 over LS2 / T56 or 5.3 swap.
I had considered making a 5.3 truck motor work with my T5 or a Tremec, but frankly, after adding up all the costs of making it work, it was nearly the same price for an LS1 / T56 as a complete drop out and the drop out was alot less hassle than gathering all the parts to piece it together. Don't just add up the large stuff as a swag, add up every single part required to make the swap work, and you will be surprised how much it truly costs to make it all work, especially if you go manual trans.
I had considered making a 5.3 truck motor work with my T5 or a Tremec, but frankly, after adding up all the costs of making it work, it was nearly the same price for an LS1 / T56 as a complete drop out and the drop out was alot less hassle than gathering all the parts to piece it together. Don't just add up the large stuff as a swag, add up every single part required to make the swap work, and you will be surprised how much it truly costs to make it all work, especially if you go manual trans.
I went with the LQ9 and swaped out the intake with an LS1 ($35). My original intent was to go with the L92 heads, cam, etc, but I quickly discovered the LQ9 was enough engine for my 68 vette on stock wheels/tires. The iron blocks also cost about 1/3 the price of aluminum.
Btw, the Saginaw is about the weakest trans around, take it easy on it. When I did my swap, I went with a Richmond 6 speed. It's pretty much a direct swap for the 4 speed.
Btw, the Saginaw is about the weakest trans around, take it easy on it. When I did my swap, I went with a Richmond 6 speed. It's pretty much a direct swap for the 4 speed.
But I know I'll end up upgrading whatever motor I go with. I just like modding, and searching for the deals. My car will see some Auto X's as well as some other hard driving. I probably won't track it, but it may make a couple passes at the drag strip just for fun, and the extra HP would be welcome.
12-17-2012, 12:24 PM
#14
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I was in the same boat not too long ago. If you want a 6.0 just get the LQ4, that's the best bang for your buck IMO.....if you go anything smaller just get the LS1. I ended up with an LS1, I paid for the short block just as much as I would have paid for a complete 4.8/5.3 but when I factored in having to buy the car accessories anyway since the truck ones were a no-go on my car the LS1 was the better deal...then with the extra cash I picked up 243 heads, cam, valve springs, ls2 timing chain kit, etc.
What I found to be an effective way in coming up with a total is add up your big parts (engine, trans, etc) and multiply by 2.....that's what I did and I found that after accumulating most of the parts I'm getting real close to that number....the little stuff adds up real quick...
What I found to be an effective way in coming up with a total is add up your big parts (engine, trans, etc) and multiply by 2.....that's what I did and I found that after accumulating most of the parts I'm getting real close to that number....the little stuff adds up real quick...
