Bandit80

Hello, I have a 2nd generation (1980) Trans Am that has an old, tired pontiac 400 in it, with an auto transmission. My goal was to always rebuild the existing motor, but to be honest, I am so sick of tinkering with cold blooded carbs, horrible gas mpg, etc.

When I see these modern ls motors getting 350 hp and up while still being able to get 20+ mpg, with fuel injection...its hard to stay loyal to my old 400!!! With a fast search on ebay you can find used motor and tranny combos for ls1 and ls2, etc... for 3-6k all day long. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_kw=l...e+transmission

My question is this: in your guys opinion, how much MORE money that the purchase price of the engine/tranny combo would I have into transporting the ls motor/tranny into my 1980 TA. How much headache/work involved?

And last but not least, would you guys recommend it?

Thanks so much guys and if you need more info I would be glad to give it.

Bandit80

I would appreciate any feedback. Anybody???

ryeguy2006a

iTrader: (27)

Most people are going to tell you to search this site. There are so many threads dedicated to this same topic. But in a nutshell, I have spent an additional ~$2200 above and beyond the motor, but that included full gauges, headers, and a new gas tank. With a motor and transmission, you can expect to pay between 6-10k depending on what you buy and where you can save money. You can check out my build thread to see what I have done.

Also, I am not fully done with the swap. But very shortly I will be. I still need to shorten my driveshaft, finish wiring, and buy some misc. plumbing to finish.

74modified

It all depends on your goals and skills. If you are in a hurry, and buy everything, and pay other people to do all the work, you can easily double the money you spend for the drivetrain. If you look at truck engine/trans pull outs, you can save a good amount. Yes - you would have to swap the intake and oil pan, and it would weigh ~100lbs more, but should still come out way ahead.

Bandit80

Thanks guys.
And as for searching threads, I hear ya on that one. I know people can get irritated about asking something that can be answered with a quick search. Most searches bring up pro touring guys that have a way bigger budget and a 2 or 3 year thread. Im not finding any estimated of costs doing an average car. If it helps, I'll put my goals down.

My goal for my car is to
1. Drive it 8 months out of the year (I live in Michigan)
2. Drive it 3-4 times a week- I live close to work
3. Be able to get in, start it right up, and drive without any issues.
4. 350 HP, and over years increase that-why I like the ls engine so much

Basically I want something really dependable, but still be able to really get on it and go. Its a muscle car, it needs to play the part, haha

Thanks again!

Bandit80

Almost forgot, as for me doing the work or hiring work done...here is my "situation" that I should explain because I know costs of labor would change things.

I am not the best with cars, I love them, just not the best with them. I have a good friend who is a mechanic but also has his own shop. I do the work, he helps me as I need it kind of thing and then he will step in when its beyond me. I pay him money for the job, but not like a shops "x many hours at x $ an hour"....but more like a little money here and money there as the job gets done.

So if this swap takes 100 man hours, then ya I might have to pay some more money than most of you DIY'rs....but if this swap takes 3 or 4 10 hour days, thats not a big deal.

The real money issues would be in the things I have to buy (beyond the motor/tranny), or pay to get modified, and thats where I am lost. the things I need and the expected man hours are what hinders me from jumping in the ls boat right now.

Any and all responses would be appreciated...even negative ones

bczee

iTrader: (12)

I would say you should be able to pull off the installing and most of the straight forward work (bolt on work). If anything needs to be modified, do you have the skills or have someone to assist (Welding, Fabrication, Electrical).

Things to consider and the cost. This sounds like some of your concern... the work can be done in a weekend if you have the man power and all of the parts lined up and ready to go.. or 40-60-100 man hours might some more resonable, Depend on how much has to be fab up during the swap and problems encountered.

Fuel system.
- Externa or Internal (in Tank) Pumps. (IMO go Intank)
- If internal modify tank with in tank pump (Tankinc PA4 or 4th Gen F-body with Vettework mounting kit).
- Fuel line / fittings.. use OEM plastic hose (Dorman kits are very costwise) and OEM fittings or go AN fitting and hoses for the high cost and performance (bling !)

Drive Line
- Trans Crossmember (mod/fab or buy)
- Drive Shaft may / will need to be shorten (go a shop near by ?)
- shifter location

Power Steering
- use OEM lines if you can find one to match up, many have.
- AN Fitting and Hose

AC ?
Cooling
- Radaitor can your stock one work or have to buy a new one, possible to use a 4th Gen F-Body
- Fans - can use Junk yard pull outs, 4th gen F-body, Ford Taurus or by high cost setup.

Engine Harness / PCM
- DIY on the Harness or vendor mod'd or new
- Flashing / Tuning the PCM (mail order tun

One thing to keep in mind, if this is a budget build.. you can cut cost a lot by reusing what you have, if you have to buy part, you can use OEM stuff instead of the high cost AN fitting and hose and other aftermarket parts. See the FAQ for the $1500 swap... thread.

so, do your homework and add up the parts 1st before you start...

good luck..

BC

BobKovacs

I started with nothing in the shell I bought, so I would have had to buy a new radiator, fuel tank, etc., and found that buying an LQ4 and 4L80E and doing all the conversion work was cheaper than buying a 380HP crate motor by about $1,000. All in, after paying $2k for the bare engine/trans, I'm looking at a total of about $7,500 for my conversion, including engine/trans mounts, wiring harness, headers, fuel system, fan/radiator, etc., etc., etc.....

If you've already got a fully-functional car, a new crate motor and new trans will likely run about $4-5k, as you'd be re-using your fuel/cooling/exhaust systems. You could rebuild your existing engine/trans for much less if you wanted to go that route.

I'd highly recommend an LS swap for all the reasons you listed- gas mileage, lack of carb issues, performance without needing a radical cam, etc. Of course, it's more technical to do one of these installs than just swapping in an old-school engine/trans, but if you're handy and can do some research, you'll be able to handle it.

MichiganLarry

Where in Michigan are you? I live in Marine City. I am in the process of doing a ls1 swap into my sons 75 Chevelle. Check out my thread. https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...5-gm-body.html

I have a little over 3 grand into this swap including the engine and trans. SO FAR! LOL

krwyellowZ28

iTrader: (10)

To give you a ROUGH estimate on time spent, I'm now 3 months into my LS1/4L60 swap on my '70 GTO (4 months if you count the engine build and parts car dismantling), and I still have to do the fuel system, wiring, and coolant system. This is with about 10-12 hrs each weekend, and about 3 hours in the evening 3-4 days a week. However, I'm also doing a complete 4 wheel disc brake conversion, installed new aftermarket rear suspension, and did a lot of my own powdercoating.

The big time killer is waiting on parts you need and didn't think of. I'm around 200 hours into the entire project (again, much more than just an LS swap), and still have another 30-40 to go... and this is wrenching time, not including researching the topic. If you sort out the right combination and have budget minded goals (no A/C, use stock fuel line, original radiator, junk yard fans, etc.), you should be able to make the swap mostly bolt-in for the $3000-4000 range including a $1000-1500 eng/trans combo.

Bandit80

Wow, thanks to all you guys for all the great information. It is all very useful. I am at this point 90% sure of going this route vs. 400 rebuild/crate motor. Also, thanks for the links so I can research more.

In the next 6 months I plan to start buying parts so that I will have them all (but the unplanned stuff) ready to go. Oh, and I am around the grand rapids area part of michigan for who was asking.

reedld

iTrader: (7)

You said best, LS based engines aren't cold blooded and get decent fuel mileage. I get 20 MPG ALL DAY...even with hard launches, which i do just about every time.

Do your research...here..and jump onto nastyz28 and transamcountry. They all have LS swap sections specific to the 2nd gen.

Nothing wrong with a budget 5.3 or even better..a 6.0.if and when my LS1 goes, a 6.0 or 6.2 is going in.

I was ready to put the 5.3 in my 80 TA when I came across my car mostly done.
I'd try to buy one with a 4L60e..a th350 can be made to work but unless you are drag racing I go with the 4 spd auto.

Good luck!
Leon

Bandit80

Thanks for the info on the transmission!