clean8485

I'm looking for some information. I've checked through the stickys, and haven't found exactly what I'm looking for. The LS engines were designed to be OBD II compatible right from the beginning. If you're going to do an LS engine swap into an older vehicle (a mid '80s GM G body), in a jurisdiction, that requires that O.E. emission controls be retained, does that mean that you have to keep the original wiring in regards to the pre and post catalyst O2 sensors? I'm contemplating an LS engine swap, and retaining the fuel injection system. Does this mean that in order to stay emission compliant, that I have to keep the all of the O2 sensors? Does the engine conversion harness and PCM have to be set up for this?
Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

S10xGN

iTrader: (11)

It's different nearly everywhere, try SEMASAN for your exact situation...

clean8485

Thanks for your help. Unfortunately, I'm not in that list, because I'm in Ontario Canada.

Kunker

What year? My understanding is that the donor engine needs to be from a calendar year newer vehicle than the car you are swapping into, and all of the emissions gear needs to remain intact, including all o2 sensors, charcol canister, etc. I'm still not clear on whether that needs to be from the engine donor or the car you are swapping, though.

There are a few good folks on jeepkings.ca that are very familiar with the emissions laws in Ontario, and it would be a good place to ask.

1964SS

iTrader: (1)

Do they have collector car insurance in Ontario? If you use collector car insurance then you are emission exempt.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Well, if you're actually intending to retain the emissions controls, then yes, post-cat O2s are needed, as they were included in the engine-donor vehicle.

Also, I believe any mid-80s for sale in Canada would have a cat. Pre-cat vehicles sometimes will have an exception along the lines of being unsafe for retrofit based on fire hazard.

If you're talking about what you can "get by with," you're better off asking your local vehicle registration authority.

U.S. fed & CA emissions regs. make sense (if it has everything the stock donor had, you're legal, minus some sensible exceptions.) States and provinces sometimes require less.

clean8485

Thanks to everyone for your responses and your help. I know that sooner or later, I'm going to have to find out from the authorities exactly what will be required, in order to perform this type of swap, and stay smog legal here in Ontario. The rules and regulations can be a bit confusing here.
Partly, I'm curious to find out what other people who live in areas where emission controls are required have done. If you live somewhere where a catalytic converter is not required, do you eliminate the cats and the post-catalytst O2 sensor when you perform a fuel injection swap, and just run a single O2 sensor, or an O2 sensor for each bank of cylinders? If this is the case, on an LS engine, which was originally designed to be OBD II compliant, are you retrofitting the engine back to OBD I standards? Can the PCM be reflashed to make this possible? Does it cause any driveability issues? These are some of the questions that I'm hoping to find some answers for.
Kunker, thanks for your help. I would be swapping in an engine which is newer than the vehicle that it would be going into. My understanding of the current laws here, is that you need to have the correct emission controls in place and functioning for either the engine or the vehicle, WHICHEVER IS NEWER. As I said, that's my understanding. That's partly why I'm curious about the post catalyst O2 sensors. I'll check out the Jeep site, and see what I can find out.
1964SS, thanks for your post. Yes, we do have collector car insurance here in Ontario, but that has no bearing on emission controls or compliance here. There is a mandatory emission test program in place here for vehicles that are at least 7 years old or older, back to the 1988 model year. Vehicles that are model year 1988 or newer must be tested every 2 years, in order to get a license plate renewal. Then there are the emission laws that have been in place here for over 40 years now, that are administered by the Ontario Ministry of the Environment. Basically, what they say is that if you have a vehicle that was originally equipped with emission controls, then those emission controls cannot be removed, disconnected, or made non-functional. The ministry has enforcement officers out there who can pull you over, and inspect your vehicle for these components, and they have access to manufacturer information as to what vehicles were equipped with what emission controls, and they can decode engine casting and stamping numbers, to determine what emission controls should be in place. If they find emission controls that are missing or non-functional, you can fined for each item. If I remember correctly, the current fine is $365.00 PER ITEM which is missing, disconnected, or otherwise non-functional, and these laws are a completely separate set of rules from the mandatory bi-annual emission testing that is required for vehicles which are 1988 or newer. I've heard some horror stories about some of the emission inspections from other collector vehicle owners, and I'd like to try to avoid a situation like this happening to me.
JMD, thanks for your info. What you're saying is probably correct, and would seem to be the sensible way to go. I suppose that maybe I'm nit-picking a bit here. I'd just like to hear what others have done, in order to gather some information.
Once again, thanks to all who have posted. I appreciate your help.

Taxman20

iTrader: (11)

And I was talking to my wife about moving out of the US and maybe to Canada after I found that a Europe move isn't very easy to accomplish. And... Never mind. LOL Good luck with all those rules and regs.

clean8485

Taxman20, its not so bad, at least in my opinion. As long as I can get some clarification on this, so I know what I need to do, then I can make sure everything is OK.

tfi racing

iTrader: (2)

Your vehicle will need to have the emission equipment installed and functional for its year of manufacture,the problem with a newer engine swap is that every "official"(assclown) will interpret the rule to his own liking,not to the letter or intent of the law,so good luck getting a real answer from any of the useless cubicle dwellers or roadside **** fascists in Ontario,(not singling out Ontario,these stupid ***** are everywhere).You should check with DaSilva Motorsports or Champion Motors,they are Ontario's LS experts and should be able to guide you through the legal quagmire safely.

Taxman20

iTrader: (11)

Yea, I know. I had to mess with you a little though. But really, good luck getting your car setup right and legal. Fines would suck for something simple missed.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

If the emissions equipment is installed and functional, a vehicle owner can point to said equipment item as present and functional just like the donor. There's really no quagmire unless you're trying to delete things, or they're not operationally present as they were in the donor.

No assclown, cubicle, nor **** to it.

tfi racing

iTrader: (2)

Have you ever been to Ontario or dealt with any of their countless regulations and overzealous enforcement of just about everything? Didn't think so...

clean8485

Once again, thanks to everyone for their help and input. I'm not trying to stir up any controversy here, just trying to gain some knowledge.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Your prior post lacked detail as to what they were being ****'s about. Probably things that weren't present, or weren't included on the recipient vehicle, like I said.

I've done work that passed in CA. Good day.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Kunker

Please post up what you find - I'd be interested to hear.