Setting up my fuel system
09-23-2015, 12:14 PM
#1
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Setting up my fuel system Hi all,
I'm in need of some advice on my fuel system as I'm about to buy the parts.
I have a standard 69' Camaro/bird fuel tank, no baffles. I plan on keeping adequate fuel in the tank to avoid baffling. Is this a good idea?
Would tapping the bottom back (towards the front of the car) of the tank act similar to the baffle and help fuel flow into the pump?
I am not sure between the bosch044 or the Walbro255. It's only a stock 5.3 so would the 255 be overkill?
And now my most important question: Can I still use a barbed fitting with hose clamps and standard braided line or will the pressure from the pump bee too much?
Thank you.
I'm in need of some advice on my fuel system as I'm about to buy the parts.
I have a standard 69' Camaro/bird fuel tank, no baffles. I plan on keeping adequate fuel in the tank to avoid baffling. Is this a good idea?
Would tapping the bottom back (towards the front of the car) of the tank act similar to the baffle and help fuel flow into the pump?
I am not sure between the bosch044 or the Walbro255. It's only a stock 5.3 so would the 255 be overkill?
And now my most important question: Can I still use a barbed fitting with hose clamps and standard braided line or will the pressure from the pump bee too much?
Thank you.
09-23-2015, 01:11 PM
#2
The tank my car had in it when I purchased it (mostly done), had a rear sump fitted in and an external bosch electric pump. worked well but was noisy. I bought a new tank and had the top modded to put in a 4th gen LS1 pump via vetteworks. This system works well...Ive run down to 1/8 of tank and had no issues. I'm using the built in fuel pressure regulator (no "corvette fpr")
I'd look at a stock fuel pump for the 5.3...get a vetteworks kit....shorten the bucket if necessary and be done. If you don't mind putting a hole in your trunk, shortening it may not be necessary.
I'd look at a stock fuel pump for the 5.3...get a vetteworks kit....shorten the bucket if necessary and be done. If you don't mind putting a hole in your trunk, shortening it may not be necessary.
09-23-2015, 04:44 PM
#4
The good thing about external pumps (in addition to accessibility) is they are great pushers (of fuel). The downside is they are not built to pull fuel.
The first tank setup I had was a stock style pump with a "homemade" outlet brazed into the bottom of the tank with a MSD 2225 ext pump. If I got below 1/2 - 1/4 tank and made a turn or hard acceleration I would have starvation issues. The best solution is either the tanks inc or the vaporworx one. I have talked to a few people that have the newer version of the tanks inc one and they are happy with it in a street environment. I have had a Rock Valley one and on my second Ricks tank (first was their EFI one and now have the Vaporworx one). The Rock valley one was good until I changed to a 4 link rear and wanted to retain tailpipes. The first Ricks EFI tank I had worked great but I really wanted to track my car and wanted a Vaporworx one. I found someone that wanted it and sold it to them. I love the Vaporworx one, simple one line hookup (the regulator and filter are interanl to the tank).
Ricks make a stamped steel version of the Vaporworx and I think it is the best of both worlds in price and function. The fuel system is not a place to take the "cheap way out" in EFI conversions in these cars.
The first tank setup I had was a stock style pump with a "homemade" outlet brazed into the bottom of the tank with a MSD 2225 ext pump. If I got below 1/2 - 1/4 tank and made a turn or hard acceleration I would have starvation issues. The best solution is either the tanks inc or the vaporworx one. I have talked to a few people that have the newer version of the tanks inc one and they are happy with it in a street environment. I have had a Rock Valley one and on my second Ricks tank (first was their EFI one and now have the Vaporworx one). The Rock valley one was good until I changed to a 4 link rear and wanted to retain tailpipes. The first Ricks EFI tank I had worked great but I really wanted to track my car and wanted a Vaporworx one. I found someone that wanted it and sold it to them. I love the Vaporworx one, simple one line hookup (the regulator and filter are interanl to the tank).
Ricks make a stamped steel version of the Vaporworx and I think it is the best of both worlds in price and function. The fuel system is not a place to take the "cheap way out" in EFI conversions in these cars.
09-23-2015, 06:19 PM
#5
An in tank pump is the way to go because the fuel keeps the pump cool and quiet. Almost NO tank has baffles....that is where the fuel bucket comes in. Turning a corner and low on fuel?...no worries...the fuel in the bucket gets used. Sucking air kills pumps. The fuel buckets have a series of check valves that prevent the pump from sucking air. The fuel bucket also has the fuel level float attached so if you haven't bought new guage yet, when you do..buy one to match the ohm range. I would have used the 240-33ohm range but I didn't want to buy a new auto meter cobalt guage. If you want more info specifically about this topic, let me know. I will fwd you some other links that will help you.
09-23-2015, 07:31 PM
#6
Fuel tank Learned years ago to get a Tanks Inc. poly tank for each of my projects. They are cheap, never rust, bullet proof and have a spot for an in tank pump. I always use GM OEM pumps because they last and if one does croak on a trip a replacement is at any parts store. No waiting for three days for a "special" pump. Up until my last build I used steel brake line for fuel lines but I've discovered factory nylon line. A Dorman fuel line tool ($85) will put the correct fittings on and no worries about fuel additives.
09-23-2015, 07:38 PM
#7
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Thanks. Any extra info/links would really be appreciated.
I definitely don't want to cut my trunk floor out at all. If I could use my existing tank without too much trouble that would be best.
I feel like it's not possible to baffle a tank without cutting it open. I guess I could cut and weld it back up, but would the pump even fit my existing tank?
I definitely don't want to cut my trunk floor out at all. If I could use my existing tank without too much trouble that would be best.
I feel like it's not possible to baffle a tank without cutting it open. I guess I could cut and weld it back up, but would the pump even fit my existing tank?
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09-23-2015, 08:18 PM
#8
Www.vetteworks.com
Left side-engine conversion-LS section
A pump needs to be submersed in fuel at all times...therefor...the need for the bucket.. There is no magic pump that you can just drop in the tank. No baffles are needed. Vette tanks don't have them, camaros don't have them, Mustangs don't have them...they all use fuel buckets. The return line returns the fuel back into the bucket. Keeps it full at all times, draws off that supply as needed. Jump over to nastyz28....hightechretrofit section...fuel sticky. Lots of great info there specific to 2nd gens but same rules apply to your tank. Search under my username...I use it on many forums.
Left side-engine conversion-LS section
A pump needs to be submersed in fuel at all times...therefor...the need for the bucket.. There is no magic pump that you can just drop in the tank. No baffles are needed. Vette tanks don't have them, camaros don't have them, Mustangs don't have them...they all use fuel buckets. The return line returns the fuel back into the bucket. Keeps it full at all times, draws off that supply as needed. Jump over to nastyz28....hightechretrofit section...fuel sticky. Lots of great info there specific to 2nd gens but same rules apply to your tank. Search under my username...I use it on many forums.
Last edited by reedld; 09-24-2015 at 05:41 AM.
09-24-2015, 07:51 AM
#9
I would go with a fuel bucket or Tanks Inc.
I went with the Tanks Inc.
Pros and Cons of my Tanks Inc set up
Pros:
I ran it down to 1 -2 gallons and never sucked air (very well thought out baffling)
Easy installation, stock fuel gauge works, stock look, relatively cheap price
Cons:
Pump is still noisy even in the tank (must be because the tank is metal)
The rubber gaskets they give you are ****, ask for the cork and use anaerobic sealer
Tips: Make sure you use a good sealant on the adapter fittings and make sure you torque them tight
I went with the Tanks Inc.
Pros and Cons of my Tanks Inc set up
Pros:
I ran it down to 1 -2 gallons and never sucked air (very well thought out baffling)
Easy installation, stock fuel gauge works, stock look, relatively cheap price
Cons:
Pump is still noisy even in the tank (must be because the tank is metal)
The rubber gaskets they give you are ****, ask for the cork and use anaerobic sealer
Tips: Make sure you use a good sealant on the adapter fittings and make sure you torque them tight
09-24-2015, 02:16 PM
#10
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Thanks everyone. I think I prefer cutting a door into the top of the tank and then fabricating a bucket/bowl for the pump to sit inside of. This seems like the cheapest option and I have all of the resources to do it.
Does anyone have a recommended pump? The walbro pumps don't seem to last too long.
Also, am I ok to still use hose clamps? Thanks.
Does anyone have a recommended pump? The walbro pumps don't seem to last too long.
Also, am I ok to still use hose clamps? Thanks.
09-24-2015, 02:51 PM
#11
no hose clamps. you need high pressure lines. (like dorman 3/8" line...just like GM used!)
my recommended pump would be OEM GM 5.3 out of a gas tank that the engine came from. If you bought the tank at a salvage yard, you may be able to make your own mount...thus avoid the need to purchase the vetteworks kit (i.e. you need to somehow attach the lock ring onto your f body tank).
cutting a neat access door is a great way of doing things. looking back, I wish I had done that. I have my trunk finished with 1/2" mdf covered in vinyl so the access would not be seen.
my recommended pump would be OEM GM 5.3 out of a gas tank that the engine came from. If you bought the tank at a salvage yard, you may be able to make your own mount...thus avoid the need to purchase the vetteworks kit (i.e. you need to somehow attach the lock ring onto your f body tank).
cutting a neat access door is a great way of doing things. looking back, I wish I had done that. I have my trunk finished with 1/2" mdf covered in vinyl so the access would not be seen.
Last edited by reedld; 09-24-2015 at 02:59 PM.
09-25-2015, 12:00 PM
#12
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Thanks. I will definitely go for the GM OEM nylon stuff.
Would it be better to still make a bucket and pickup in the tank, but use an inline pump so that it would be easy to swap out a pump in the event of a failure?
Thanks.
Would it be better to still make a bucket and pickup in the tank, but use an inline pump so that it would be easy to swap out a pump in the event of a failure?
Thanks.
09-25-2015, 01:31 PM
#13
I don't think the 1st gen Camaro tank is deep enough for the vetteworx module, but I could be wrong. I know I looked into it for my 3rd gen Nova and there was just no way to shorten it enough for my tank depth. I think the Camaro tank is slightly deeper but not much.
Tanks Inc makes the PA series of hangers than you can put retrofit into your existing tank. They include a bucket/reservoir to keep fuel around the pump.
Tanks Inc and Spectra both make pre-made stamped tanks for this application that will accept an intank pump and have an in-tank reservoir to keep fuel around the pickup.
I did not know Ricks made a stamped tank.
The only advantage to an external inline pump (IMO) is ease of access. The in tank pump is going to run cooler and therefore last longer. Yes if you run an inline pump you should still have appropriate baffling/reservoir around the pickup and you should use a pickup "sock" in the tank to make sure it always stays wet/full of fuel.
Tanks Inc makes the PA series of hangers than you can put retrofit into your existing tank. They include a bucket/reservoir to keep fuel around the pump.
Tanks Inc and Spectra both make pre-made stamped tanks for this application that will accept an intank pump and have an in-tank reservoir to keep fuel around the pickup.
I did not know Ricks made a stamped tank.
The only advantage to an external inline pump (IMO) is ease of access. The in tank pump is going to run cooler and therefore last longer. Yes if you run an inline pump you should still have appropriate baffling/reservoir around the pickup and you should use a pickup "sock" in the tank to make sure it always stays wet/full of fuel.
09-25-2015, 01:43 PM
#14
access I don't think the 1st gen Camaro tank is deep enough for the vetteworx module, but I could be wrong. I know I looked into it for my 3rd gen Nova and there was just no way to shorten it enough for my tank depth. I think the Camaro tank is slightly deeper but not much.
Tanks Inc makes the PA series of hangers than you can put retrofit into your existing tank. They include a bucket/reservoir to keep fuel around the pump.
Tanks Inc and Spectra both make pre-made stamped tanks for this application that will accept an intank pump and have an in-tank reservoir to keep fuel around the pickup.
I did not know Ricks made a stamped tank.
The only advantage to an external inline pump (IMO) is ease of access. The in tank pump is going to run cooler and therefore last longer. Yes if you run an inline pump you should still have appropriate baffling/reservoir around the pickup and you should use a pickup "sock" in the tank to make sure it always stays wet/full of fuel.
Tanks Inc makes the PA series of hangers than you can put retrofit into your existing tank. They include a bucket/reservoir to keep fuel around the pump.
Tanks Inc and Spectra both make pre-made stamped tanks for this application that will accept an intank pump and have an in-tank reservoir to keep fuel around the pickup.
I did not know Ricks made a stamped tank.
The only advantage to an external inline pump (IMO) is ease of access. The in tank pump is going to run cooler and therefore last longer. Yes if you run an inline pump you should still have appropriate baffling/reservoir around the pickup and you should use a pickup "sock" in the tank to make sure it always stays wet/full of fuel.
09-25-2015, 04:49 PM
#15
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Love my Tanks INC tank. Plus Aeromotive makes their Phantom set up to fit the Tanks pump mounting so you can have he best of both worlds. Went with the new Aeromotive 450 pump. Fits perfect.
09-25-2015, 05:31 PM
#16
any pump you use will probably not fit easy....read this..cut the factory 5.3l fuel bucket down!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...ce-needed.html
Here is a real informative link from nastyz28..
http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showth...=209472&page=5. Read every post!
I wouldn't do an inline...oem fuel bucket!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...ce-needed.html
Here is a real informative link from nastyz28..
http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showth...=209472&page=5. Read every post!
I wouldn't do an inline...oem fuel bucket!
09-26-2015, 08:21 AM
#17
If you don't want a stainless one, then I would recommend one of Ricks Hot Rod shops stamped steel tanks with the vaporworx. One line connection for fuel. It is priced higher than the tanks inc one, but with less moving parts (no external regulator, filter or return line to run) and OEM (5th gen fuel bucket) fuel system). Oh, and you can run the tank down to a gallon of fuel, try that with a tanks inc unit. Don't get me wrong, the tanks inc is a nice piece but by the time the have to buy the other parts and take the time to install them, you will be further ahead. Hector also has great customer service!!
http://lateral-g.net/forums/showthre...ks+steel+tanks
http://lateral-g.net/forums/showthre...ks+steel+tanks
09-28-2015, 12:41 PM
#18
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Thanks everyone. I really don't want to cut a hole in my trunk to make an access door for changing pumps out, hence leaning towards an in-line pump. However, I have no problem cutting up the tank to make a baffle!
Will an in-tank pump last long enough that I won't have to worry about getting stranded and having to replace the pump?
Will an in-tank pump last long enough that I won't have to worry about getting stranded and having to replace the pump?
09-28-2015, 02:20 PM
#19
Thanks everyone. I really don't want to cut a hole in my trunk to make an access door for changing pumps out, hence leaning towards an in-line pump. However, I have no problem cutting up the tank to make a baffle!
Will an in-tank pump last long enough that I won't have to worry about getting stranded and having to replace the pump?
Will an in-tank pump last long enough that I won't have to worry about getting stranded and having to replace the pump?
If you've got the depth of 6" in your tank this would be the perfect solution for you.
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/pa...prod/prd84.htm
09-28-2015, 07:56 PM
#20
I think you need to ask yourself how much you are willing to pay for the "fuel system". Keep in mind, if you cheap out on the fuel system, you may regret it.
1 rear sump/external pump
Advantages: realitive cheap- drill holes in bottom of tank, weld sump onto tank.
Disadvantage: noisy, need for fuel pressure reg, possibly short lifetime (stranded) or starvation issues
Ricks tank
Advantage: baffled..done...proven...looks great
Disadvantage: pricey...could break your budget
Vetteworks/stock fuel bucket
Advantage: built in FPR, GM engineered designed, approved etc, quiet, pump always submersed in fuel, OEM GM replacement pump (almost any parts store has it), no starvation issues, bucket COULD be shortened.
Disadvantage: welding in recess can be pricey, possibility of cutting hole in trunk
The new tanks inc tank looks nice, I question the depth of the fuel bucket. The drop in piece posted above seems like a quick easy fix...but I do not think it would last. It would need a much larger bucket to prevent air being sucked, maintain proper cooling, and fuel starvation when braking/cornering. I've read of a lot of issues with the spectra tank (Google it). I've read of failed pumps and "I can't drive below 1/2 tank".
So...ask yourself what your budget is. IMO, I'd go ricks tank or suck it up and cut a hole (neatly) in the trunk, build a top hat mount and use the 5.3 fuel bucket. The 5.3 tank is all metal tank and you should be able cut out the mounting hole and engineer it to your top hat...thus not needing to purchase the vetteworks kit.
1 rear sump/external pump
Advantages: realitive cheap- drill holes in bottom of tank, weld sump onto tank.
Disadvantage: noisy, need for fuel pressure reg, possibly short lifetime (stranded) or starvation issues
Ricks tank
Advantage: baffled..done...proven...looks great
Disadvantage: pricey...could break your budget
Vetteworks/stock fuel bucket
Advantage: built in FPR, GM engineered designed, approved etc, quiet, pump always submersed in fuel, OEM GM replacement pump (almost any parts store has it), no starvation issues, bucket COULD be shortened.
Disadvantage: welding in recess can be pricey, possibility of cutting hole in trunk
The new tanks inc tank looks nice, I question the depth of the fuel bucket. The drop in piece posted above seems like a quick easy fix...but I do not think it would last. It would need a much larger bucket to prevent air being sucked, maintain proper cooling, and fuel starvation when braking/cornering. I've read of a lot of issues with the spectra tank (Google it). I've read of failed pumps and "I can't drive below 1/2 tank".
So...ask yourself what your budget is. IMO, I'd go ricks tank or suck it up and cut a hole (neatly) in the trunk, build a top hat mount and use the 5.3 fuel bucket. The 5.3 tank is all metal tank and you should be able cut out the mounting hole and engineer it to your top hat...thus not needing to purchase the vetteworks kit.