70LS1Nova

Anyone have any info on the BRP Rack and Pinion Install in a first gen camaro or 68-74 nova? I did a search and found a couple threads from 2004 but nothing real current. Just wondering if there are any tricks or tips I can use before I get started. I'm gonna go with the sway bar relocation also. Any info would be helpful.

Rodder

iTrader: (2)

My tip would be don't go R&P. Use an ATS/Lee steering box with the stock-type steering setup.

If you really want to go to a rack for weight reduction, Unisteer is supposed to have a kit for our subframes that works reasonably well.

70LS1Nova

Anyone else care to chime in? Are you telling me that none of you camaro and nova guys put a rack in? Am I the only one? Anyone buy ANYTHING from BRP?

dhutton

iTrader: (1)

I think the issue with the BRP rack and pinion conversion is that the turning radius is huge. I've seen it compared to an F150. The only reason to do it is if you are doing a BRP based LS1 conversion.

Don

BonzoHansen

iTrader: (7)

By all reports, add bump steer issues to the list.

Teetoe_Jones

And let's not forget they want you to mount the sway bar under the lowest part of the frame so it can catch all sorts of road debris.......

Tyler

Rodder

iTrader: (2)

Nope, never bought anything from them. And I live about 10 miles from them. When I was researching my swap in the summer of '06, I couldn't find many people who had anything good to say about them. I found a few people who had bad things to say, a few that were more concerned about their AC bracket than their subframe or steering, and a couple of early adopters that did swaps before the S&P stuff came on the scene.

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Well.. the Year One Camaro is a BRP in shop conversion.. If you can't get what you want out of Phil at BRP.. try Kevin at Year One !?

chrisp3

First I'd like to say I think Phil is a nice guy to deal with and is very helpful on the phone. He swears that his "kit" will turn the 1st gen just like a 4th gen f-body (maybe it's the same as a F150?) Also with the addition of the new QA1 rod ends he said there is not a bump-steer issue. The rod ends are 1 1/4'' thick at the bearing.

Anyway, I bought one of their "rack kits".....I think it's a great idea, but not quality workmanship for the price. If you have the cash and don't mind spending some time to rework the parts then more power to ya'.

My opinion?...here goes...

$700 invested and I was close to being disgusted, to say the least, as I saw the parts come out of the shipping box one by one.
The instructions were ridiculous and at first glance resembled a high school football play. There were lines that were hand drawn from one sentence to an item on a picture that would criss-cross other lines and vice versa. This made trying to decipher the instructions kinda difficult. The instructions do not consist of a standard Step 1, Step 2, and etc. method. Instead they were several poor quality black and white scanned images with hand drawn lines strewn across. I would think this would have some people scratching their heads wondering where to begin. I have now come to find that their instructions have been one of the biggest issues that buyers have with this kit. <---That is the first page of the instructions, the pictures get worse throughout the 10-15(?) page so-called manual.

The aluminum steering arms in the "kit" looked as if they had been slid around the BRP shop floor, because of the scratches from end to end. Trying to mount them on the front spindles was a joke. The steering arms would not mount flush with the inboard side of the spindle, because of a lack of machine work at the top,(chamfer),of the steering arm. To allow this to fit, either the steering arm or the spindle would have to be machined more . Also it was found that the steering arm’s built in bump stop, (the drop at the rear of the arm) hardly came close to the bump stop on the factory a-arm.








^^^Picture looking up, under the lower a-arm (and yes those are real spider eggs!)

I later found out (from a Pro-Touring member)that I was one of the lucky ones that got a "template" in my "kit". Heres a shot of the little gem...and BTW, they even wrote the word template on it just so you would not wonder what you should do with such a prize


The u-joint, on the steering shaft, in the ''kit'' had been “grinded” close at the pivot axles which could weaken the steering u-joint. Also the weld between the u-joint and coupler (that it is welded to) is less than satisfactory. The joint had been welded to the coupler and then the welded area was grinded upon until it was sorta-kinda smooth. This would further weaken the weld, and this, also is an area where strength is very important....IMO...



The mounting tabs for the rack seemed as if they were cut from metal stock with an oxy-torch and then hand grinded somewhat into shape. The tabs came “pre-rusted”. These were another unsatisfactory part that needed attention.


The tie rod boots were said to have been repaired by BRP. Looks like someone smeared on some RTV and then hit the boot with a few shots of Krylons best flat black. You can see the paint flaking off the boot as I moved the rod from the box to the floor.




And here is the piece that makes up the channel that is cut into the frame!



To sum it up, IMO, the "kit" was very shade-tree and looked like it was produced by amatures. I would not install it on MY car

chrisp3

does it look like it will catch any more debris than the a-arms, or for that matter, the frame cradle?

Teetoe_Jones

Hell yes! It IS the lowest part of the frame by quite a bit. It is lower then the A frames, and the bar is lower than the engine cradle of the frame. Terrible execution and idea.

Tyler

70LS1Nova

WOW CHRISP3...Exactly what I needed to know!!!!! I had heard some things, that's why I posted this thread. I talked to Phil on the phone too, and he sounded like a great guy. There are so many companies out there selling "bolt on" upgrades (SSBC) and they take hours of modifications and bullshittin around to make them work. Where do we go from here? I'm not sure the unisteer or the steeroids unit will fit between the oil pan and the crossmember. Anyone have one of those working behind the crossmember with an LS1 yet?

dhutton

iTrader: (1)

I think the only way to get a decent performing R&P with an LS1 is with an aftermarket frame - DSE, AME or 21st Century to name a few. Otherwise stick with one of the reworked boxes from ATS, Lee or DSE. At least that is what all my research lead me to conclude.

Don

chrisp3

If you use one of those kits you will have to notch your oil pan, and thats something that I did not want to do. Also, the unisteer can be a pain in the a** to install per http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sho...light=unisteer Another strike against them, for me, was the use of three u-joints.

It really amazes me that there is no hard data on any of the rack kits (BRP,Unisteer,Steeroids,Flaming river). As long as they have been out, I would think that one of them would post such things as turning radius, bump-steer, Ackermann effect , etc, versus a bone stock power box 1st gen. Maybe it's out there somewhere but I haven't seen any numbers yet.

chrisp3

Could you make any suggestions?

I would think that a custom bar would really need to be fabricated instead of an ''off the shelf'' bar....?

jewce

I've got the unisteer kit. Overall it all fit together well and I'd say its a decent kit at best, but not great. There is no way it will fit any stock oil pan. I have an ATS pan and it fit with about 3/4" clearance. Steering arms fit good and hit the travel stops on the a-arms correctly. The 3 u-joints I've messed with for probably 3-4 hours and still can't seem to get the hard spot out of the rotation. There's one sticky point that I can move around by changing where the splines engage, but not get rid of, but it's not the joints binding up.

The only real hassle was the high pressure banjo bolt. The boss on the housing sticks out roughly 5/8", then you have to fit the banjo fitting, washers, and bolt on top of that. It ran into the oil pan rail (ATS mounts). I had to grind the oil pan and rail right at one of the bolts, which was no big deal, but I also ground down the boss on the housing to gain 5/8", took some material off of both sides of the banjo fitting, and took some off of the head of the bolt all to gain clearance. I now have about 1/2" clearance, which is enough to keep it from hitting with poly engine mounts, but the thing that bugs me is I had to machine on the sealing surfaces to get it to work. Haven't had any leaks yet, but I haven't actually driven the car due to clutch problems.

In the end, I should have gone with a modified box instead of R&P, but live and learn, right?

I need to change out the springs over the winter, so I'll measure bump steer every 1/2" or so and post it. Maybe 2-3 months til I get around to it though.

chrisp3

Here is another good thread to read on unisteer and flaming rack kits.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=102426

The more I read about these kits the more I am leaning toward going with an Art Morrison or DSE complete clip

dhutton

iTrader: (1)

Where are you in Texas? You are welcome to come by and check out my Art Morrison front clip. I think it can't be beat for an LSx conversion. I'm near DFW.

Don

LSfan70s

I'm glad I read this thread before I buy the kit from unisteer. I was planing to put it on my 68 firebird, but with all this info, I'm kinda of steping back.

It would be greate that it fit perfectly the first time, but also I think it's not to much work to get it on. So I don't know if I'm still buying it.

Does anyone know if there is any difference between the Firebird and Camaro subframe? I know they have diferent engines, but don't know how this affect the subframe.

dhutton

iTrader: (1)

Camaro and Firebird subframes are essentially the same. You just use different stands and mounts to accomodate the different engines.

Don