Yes, another LS1 into an F-body, with a few twists...
04-14-2008, 07:33 PM
#1
Yes, another LS1 into an F-body, with a few twists... Several on this board have helped with some of the preliminaries, and hopefully some of what I have learned will help others.
For the past year I have been preparing a new driveline for the Camaro. There was really nothing wrong with the previous setup, it’s just that I have always wanted to install a supercharged LS/T56 into the car. Well, it's in, but not quite ready to go.
The basic engine is nothing fancy. It’s a 2002 Z28 engine that still has the stock rings, pistons, and bearings. The internals were in superb condition for a 25K mile engine. The primary modifications are ARP rod bolts, Cometic MSL gaskets, Z06 valve springs, Ferra exhaust valves, and a Lingenfelter GT2-3 cam (207/220 @ 0.050”, 0.571”/0.578” 118.5 LSA).
The supercharger is a Magnuson Products MP112 kit that is basically a 2004 GTO setup with an LS2 throttle body and MAF. Since the GTO and F-body share the same accessory drive system it was a no-brainer. Though it does not make a ton of top-end power, it should peak at 500RWHP and make approximately 430 ft-lb of torque starting at 1700 RPM and go up from there. I’m following Magnuson’s lead on the build since the goal is to have a setup that will make really good power throughout the entire powerband, have good reliability, and get good gas mileage. It should make 27-28mpg on the highway if I keep my foot out of it. In other words, I want the best of all worlds.
The previous KSE power steering reservoir is being used but is mounted on the engine. The stock CB pump inlet was modified by Lee’s to accept a threaded O-ring fitting/-10. A close 90* by Earl’s just barely fits, but the pump is at a very slight angle. It won’t hurt performance, just looks a hair odd if you really look at it. The mounting bracket fits in a hole that clamps the upper and lower halves of the manifold base. It works fine but is cosmetically challenged. I may not change it since the air intake tubes may cover it all.
The engine mounting plates and transmission crossmember are made by ATS. The fore/aft and vertical positioning of the engine is outstanding. There is enough room for the blower and wiring harness, and the seriously thick C&R radiator/Mark VIII fan just barely fits. There is enough room to route the fuel line down the back of the engine and then across to the frame rail. This allows for at least 6” of clearance to any exhaust component in the engine bay, and since this is a C5 Corvette single-line system, the less heat into the line, the better. The flexible lines on the engine and filter are all Teflon components wrapped in silicone/fiberglass heat sleeve with shrink-wrapped ends.
The headers are from Stainless Works. With David Pozzi’s help they were modified to fit the ATS adapter plate system. The worst offending tube is #3. Here’s what needs to be done to get a good fitment:
1) Cut the #3 tube approximately 1” from the flange.
2) Cut the #3 tube approximately 1” from the start of the top/aft bend that begins at the long section heading downward.
3) Purchase a 2”R 180* stainless U-bend. Hooker makes the least expensive. One end of the U-bend leg will be used to extend the #3 tube that was cut in (2). Do not weld into place. It will need to be adjusted for length in (5.)
4) Cut an approximate 90* section from the U-bend leaving an approximate 2” straight leg on one end. The 2” leg will go aft, the other to the cut #3 tube on the flange. Leave the leg long and final fit it in (5.) This 90* section will need to be rotated counter-clockwise vs. the position of the original. This effectively moves the tube up and away from the power steering box.
5) Using the twisty removed section of the #3 tube, align it the same way as removed to the 1” section and to the aft end of the #3 tube. Also align it to the 90* added in (4). Tack weld into position.
6) Cut a small wedge radius tube to bridge the gap between the tubes.
7) Weld it all back up.
Be sure to cut in places that you can have access to with a welding torch. David had a tough time getting to one of them but he finally had his way with it.
There is a rectangular boss on the aft engine block near the deck surface that that will need to be filed down to clear the #3 tube.
The #1 tube needed an ever so slight dimple to clear the stock power steering forward/inner/top cover bolt mounted in David’s frame. Maybe 1/8” total, hardly noticeable. In my frame with the 600-series box it would not have been needed. There is enough clearance with the 600 box that no modifications may be needed.
The passenger side fits fine. It has approximately 3/8” clearance to the idler arm, and that’s more than the old Hooker’s that were supposedly made for the car.
With the modifications made the stock spark plug wires would no longer fit. So, I found some 45* boots from http://shop.kingsborne.com for a great price. The stock boot was removed, the spark plug terminal bent to a 45*, and reassembled using dielectric grease. They fit great and were very inexpensive.
In all, there’s about $40 in parts to make the modifications + welding.
The fuel tank is a Rick’s piece with a Walbro 255lph pump. Teflon lines and Russell adapters were used to connect the Corvette C5 fuel pressure regulator. On the engine side of the FPR a standard swaged-tube that snaps into the end was used. The opposite end of the tube connects to a short Teflon line so that maintenance will be easy. On stock F-bodies there is a factory hole in the top of the differential tunnel that can be used to mount the FPR.
The wiring harness is an ’04 GTO part modified to fit the ECM on the front of the LH side wheelwell next to the fender. A 4th gen bracket is used to mount the ECM. The harness is just barely long enough, and will require some measure of gymnastics to get the connectors in.
Next to go in is the exhaust, air intake, and intercooler system.
For the past year I have been preparing a new driveline for the Camaro. There was really nothing wrong with the previous setup, it’s just that I have always wanted to install a supercharged LS/T56 into the car. Well, it's in, but not quite ready to go.
The basic engine is nothing fancy. It’s a 2002 Z28 engine that still has the stock rings, pistons, and bearings. The internals were in superb condition for a 25K mile engine. The primary modifications are ARP rod bolts, Cometic MSL gaskets, Z06 valve springs, Ferra exhaust valves, and a Lingenfelter GT2-3 cam (207/220 @ 0.050”, 0.571”/0.578” 118.5 LSA).
The supercharger is a Magnuson Products MP112 kit that is basically a 2004 GTO setup with an LS2 throttle body and MAF. Since the GTO and F-body share the same accessory drive system it was a no-brainer. Though it does not make a ton of top-end power, it should peak at 500RWHP and make approximately 430 ft-lb of torque starting at 1700 RPM and go up from there. I’m following Magnuson’s lead on the build since the goal is to have a setup that will make really good power throughout the entire powerband, have good reliability, and get good gas mileage. It should make 27-28mpg on the highway if I keep my foot out of it. In other words, I want the best of all worlds.
The previous KSE power steering reservoir is being used but is mounted on the engine. The stock CB pump inlet was modified by Lee’s to accept a threaded O-ring fitting/-10. A close 90* by Earl’s just barely fits, but the pump is at a very slight angle. It won’t hurt performance, just looks a hair odd if you really look at it. The mounting bracket fits in a hole that clamps the upper and lower halves of the manifold base. It works fine but is cosmetically challenged. I may not change it since the air intake tubes may cover it all.
The engine mounting plates and transmission crossmember are made by ATS. The fore/aft and vertical positioning of the engine is outstanding. There is enough room for the blower and wiring harness, and the seriously thick C&R radiator/Mark VIII fan just barely fits. There is enough room to route the fuel line down the back of the engine and then across to the frame rail. This allows for at least 6” of clearance to any exhaust component in the engine bay, and since this is a C5 Corvette single-line system, the less heat into the line, the better. The flexible lines on the engine and filter are all Teflon components wrapped in silicone/fiberglass heat sleeve with shrink-wrapped ends.
The headers are from Stainless Works. With David Pozzi’s help they were modified to fit the ATS adapter plate system. The worst offending tube is #3. Here’s what needs to be done to get a good fitment:
1) Cut the #3 tube approximately 1” from the flange.
2) Cut the #3 tube approximately 1” from the start of the top/aft bend that begins at the long section heading downward.
3) Purchase a 2”R 180* stainless U-bend. Hooker makes the least expensive. One end of the U-bend leg will be used to extend the #3 tube that was cut in (2). Do not weld into place. It will need to be adjusted for length in (5.)
4) Cut an approximate 90* section from the U-bend leaving an approximate 2” straight leg on one end. The 2” leg will go aft, the other to the cut #3 tube on the flange. Leave the leg long and final fit it in (5.) This 90* section will need to be rotated counter-clockwise vs. the position of the original. This effectively moves the tube up and away from the power steering box.
5) Using the twisty removed section of the #3 tube, align it the same way as removed to the 1” section and to the aft end of the #3 tube. Also align it to the 90* added in (4). Tack weld into position.
6) Cut a small wedge radius tube to bridge the gap between the tubes.
7) Weld it all back up.
Be sure to cut in places that you can have access to with a welding torch. David had a tough time getting to one of them but he finally had his way with it.
There is a rectangular boss on the aft engine block near the deck surface that that will need to be filed down to clear the #3 tube.
The #1 tube needed an ever so slight dimple to clear the stock power steering forward/inner/top cover bolt mounted in David’s frame. Maybe 1/8” total, hardly noticeable. In my frame with the 600-series box it would not have been needed. There is enough clearance with the 600 box that no modifications may be needed.
The passenger side fits fine. It has approximately 3/8” clearance to the idler arm, and that’s more than the old Hooker’s that were supposedly made for the car.
With the modifications made the stock spark plug wires would no longer fit. So, I found some 45* boots from http://shop.kingsborne.com for a great price. The stock boot was removed, the spark plug terminal bent to a 45*, and reassembled using dielectric grease. They fit great and were very inexpensive.
In all, there’s about $40 in parts to make the modifications + welding.
The fuel tank is a Rick’s piece with a Walbro 255lph pump. Teflon lines and Russell adapters were used to connect the Corvette C5 fuel pressure regulator. On the engine side of the FPR a standard swaged-tube that snaps into the end was used. The opposite end of the tube connects to a short Teflon line so that maintenance will be easy. On stock F-bodies there is a factory hole in the top of the differential tunnel that can be used to mount the FPR.
The wiring harness is an ’04 GTO part modified to fit the ECM on the front of the LH side wheelwell next to the fender. A 4th gen bracket is used to mount the ECM. The harness is just barely long enough, and will require some measure of gymnastics to get the connectors in.
Next to go in is the exhaust, air intake, and intercooler system.
04-24-2008, 10:46 PM
#5
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Leon, hooker plates would put the engine like an inch closer to the firewall than the ATS plates. Here's what the Hookers look like:
(and yes, that's how rough they look out of the box--that's a real Hooker plate, not a copy made with a jigsaw).
(and yes, that's how rough they look out of the box--that's a real Hooker plate, not a copy made with a jigsaw).
04-24-2008, 11:37 PM
#6
For this application the Hooker plates would not have worked. Not only would the blower fuel crossover line hit the firewall, but the RH head would be only 1/2" away as well. No room for wiring and fuel. Also, with the car being an AC car with the American Graffiti eliminator box, it would have hit it as well.
I believe that the SW headers would still have fitment problems with Hooker plates. The #3 tube using a stock PS box would likely be a problem, and for sure the #1 tube would hit and require rerouting.
The more I look at it I wonder just how close they would have fit using the 600 box without making tube modifications. There is a LOT of clearance now around the areas where the stock box had clearance problems.
I believe that the SW headers would still have fitment problems with Hooker plates. The #3 tube using a stock PS box would likely be a problem, and for sure the #1 tube would hit and require rerouting.
The more I look at it I wonder just how close they would have fit using the 600 box without making tube modifications. There is a LOT of clearance now around the areas where the stock box had clearance problems.
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04-25-2008, 09:14 AM
#9
Leon,
It was a stock box that I sent you. However, the car has a 600 series box that has different (note smaller) envelope dims. I did not think that it was that much smaller, and the hose porting that far relocated, vs the original in that area. Note in the pics above. The top two pics are using a black dummy block and original Saginaw 800 series box. The lower pic is using the actual LS block and Saginaw 600 series box. Note the difference in location and clearance around the hose boss in the box casting. It is significantly different.
Hey James. Yours is superb, and will be a ton of fun when done.
It was a stock box that I sent you. However, the car has a 600 series box that has different (note smaller) envelope dims. I did not think that it was that much smaller, and the hose porting that far relocated, vs the original in that area. Note in the pics above. The top two pics are using a black dummy block and original Saginaw 800 series box. The lower pic is using the actual LS block and Saginaw 600 series box. Note the difference in location and clearance around the hose boss in the box casting. It is significantly different.
Hey James. Yours is superb, and will be a ton of fun when done.
