If turbos are more efficient and make more power than a sc'er.....then.....???
03-25-2012, 01:11 PM
#2
On The Tree
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lol, Im surprised someone thats been here as long as you is even asking this, are you just trolling?
The NHRA has very specific rules for TF, and a 14-71 is all thats allowed. Gale Banks did a Turbo Top Fueler in the 80s, but experienced issues with the drivetrain; I think he was running a Lenco. Theres no reason to try a Nitro Turbo combo because it wouldnt be allowed. Dont be surprised when the ADRL P/X guys start trying out nitro in a turbo car because theres more and more guys in Pro Xtreme that running turbos. Theres guys that currently do or have used turbos in the past on Top Fuel hydros. People used to think that mech injection wouldnt work with turbos, but Frankie Taylor has proven that wrong this year, as he is running a turbo with mech injection. The blowers that Top Fuel uses "only" flow around 3500-3800cfm or so IIRC. That can easily be accomplished with some big twin turbos nowadays. Without the nitro, I imagine a top fueler would make around 2500 to 3000hp, theres plenty of turbo cars that have surpassed that by quite a bit. Contrary to popular belief, nitro actually burns fairly cool. The problem is there is 8000hp of nitro/air coming out of the exhaust, which would require a big hotside. It is not impossible though, and if someone could tune it right a turbo T/F would make alot more power than the current ones, no doubt. Its just that not very many people have tried and theres no real reason to. If they made it legal though, I dont doubt that it could definitely work.
And yes, turbos do make more power when similarly sized on similar boost. Its basic science, superchargers are driven off the crank and sap away a relatively large amount of power. Turbos are driven off the exhaust and dont have nearly the same amount of parasitic losses.
The NHRA just doesnt want to see advances and would rather stay with 50 year old technology. Ala making Pro Stock stay with carbs.
The NHRA has very specific rules for TF, and a 14-71 is all thats allowed. Gale Banks did a Turbo Top Fueler in the 80s, but experienced issues with the drivetrain; I think he was running a Lenco. Theres no reason to try a Nitro Turbo combo because it wouldnt be allowed. Dont be surprised when the ADRL P/X guys start trying out nitro in a turbo car because theres more and more guys in Pro Xtreme that running turbos. Theres guys that currently do or have used turbos in the past on Top Fuel hydros. People used to think that mech injection wouldnt work with turbos, but Frankie Taylor has proven that wrong this year, as he is running a turbo with mech injection. The blowers that Top Fuel uses "only" flow around 3500-3800cfm or so IIRC. That can easily be accomplished with some big twin turbos nowadays. Without the nitro, I imagine a top fueler would make around 2500 to 3000hp, theres plenty of turbo cars that have surpassed that by quite a bit. Contrary to popular belief, nitro actually burns fairly cool. The problem is there is 8000hp of nitro/air coming out of the exhaust, which would require a big hotside. It is not impossible though, and if someone could tune it right a turbo T/F would make alot more power than the current ones, no doubt. Its just that not very many people have tried and theres no real reason to. If they made it legal though, I dont doubt that it could definitely work.
And yes, turbos do make more power when similarly sized on similar boost. Its basic science, superchargers are driven off the crank and sap away a relatively large amount of power. Turbos are driven off the exhaust and dont have nearly the same amount of parasitic losses.
The NHRA just doesnt want to see advances and would rather stay with 50 year old technology. Ala making Pro Stock stay with carbs.
03-25-2012, 02:19 PM
#3
lol.....trolling.....no....
I just don't know anything really about the drag racing world......mainly because I'm not interested at all in 1/4 mile racing as I think its actually a bore. But I am about to start my GT55 408ci iron block build and I'm learning more and more about turbos and their capabilities.....goal is 1,200 RWHP through my 4L80E. We will easily do it.
So really then, to answer my question.....it boils down to NHRA rules, not capabilities of the turbos to make the same or more power......thats what I was wondering.
Seems like someone should start a new drag racing organization without that rule.....bye-bye NHRA........so the 1/4 mile drag world and the T/F guys can get out of the stone age and make some real sick machines.
Thanks.
.
I just don't know anything really about the drag racing world......mainly because I'm not interested at all in 1/4 mile racing as I think its actually a bore. But I am about to start my GT55 408ci iron block build and I'm learning more and more about turbos and their capabilities.....goal is 1,200 RWHP through my 4L80E. We will easily do it.
So really then, to answer my question.....it boils down to NHRA rules, not capabilities of the turbos to make the same or more power......thats what I was wondering.
Seems like someone should start a new drag racing organization without that rule.....bye-bye NHRA........so the 1/4 mile drag world and the T/F guys can get out of the stone age and make some real sick machines.
Thanks.
.
03-25-2012, 02:45 PM
#4
6 & 8 Second Club
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois, RT 66 dragway area
Posts: 2,284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.
The fuel class's have been around for 50+ years now, and they have done pretty well with the blown & injected combinations.
There is not enough money in our world for anyone with a brain to even attempt a new class or series just for turbo's nitro combination.
Now I would love to see some rich guy do it, and I will be the 1st in line to get in!!
Hell, we can barely get enough cars for the class' we have, plus the payouts suck,
so I wouldn't expect anyone to do anything but try it for ****'s & giggles, if at all??
Plus how many qualified guys are just walking around with 10 million in their pocket to even attempt a project like this??
It would be frigging awesome, that's for sure, but I'm way too old to ever hope to see it happen??
Now, if someone has a bunch of money to throw around, I have an injected alcohol ProCharger car sitting in my shop.
For the right guy, I would gladly offer it up for testing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now is the perfect time, I'm getting new pistons, so it's all set to get the proper compression needed!!
All we need is the qualified tuner and a big fat check to JBL and Son Dragracing!!
.
The fuel class's have been around for 50+ years now, and they have done pretty well with the blown & injected combinations.
There is not enough money in our world for anyone with a brain to even attempt a new class or series just for turbo's nitro combination.
Now I would love to see some rich guy do it, and I will be the 1st in line to get in!!
Hell, we can barely get enough cars for the class' we have, plus the payouts suck,
so I wouldn't expect anyone to do anything but try it for ****'s & giggles, if at all??
Plus how many qualified guys are just walking around with 10 million in their pocket to even attempt a project like this??
It would be frigging awesome, that's for sure, but I'm way too old to ever hope to see it happen??
Now, if someone has a bunch of money to throw around, I have an injected alcohol ProCharger car sitting in my shop.
For the right guy, I would gladly offer it up for testing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now is the perfect time, I'm getting new pistons, so it's all set to get the proper compression needed!!
All we need is the qualified tuner and a big fat check to JBL and Son Dragracing!!
.
Trending Topics
03-25-2012, 08:50 PM
#8
6 & 8 Second Club
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois, RT 66 dragway area
Posts: 2,284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.
You must be young!!
In the last 10 years it has gotten 1000 times better.
Fines & penalties has really helped, plus the modern technology in diapers.
Hell in the old days every other damn pass was an explosion and giant fire!!
.
You must be young!!
In the last 10 years it has gotten 1000 times better.
Fines & penalties has really helped, plus the modern technology in diapers.
Hell in the old days every other damn pass was an explosion and giant fire!!
.
03-25-2012, 10:03 PM
#9
Agreed. It has gotten A LOT better, which is a great thing. The Nitro cars are so fast now, NHRA is really there to keep things under control as much as possible. How much faster than 325 MPH do you need to go in 1,000 feet?
Speaking strictly as a spectator, the Nitro cars are a RUSH to watch in person!
Speaking strictly as a spectator, the Nitro cars are a RUSH to watch in person!
03-26-2012, 07:16 AM
#12
.
The fuel class's have been around for 50+ years now, and they have done pretty well with the blown & injected combinations.
There is not enough money in our world for anyone with a brain to even attempt a new class or series just for turbo's nitro combination.
Now I would love to see some rich guy do it, and I will be the 1st in line to get in!!
Hell, we can barely get enough cars for the class' we have, plus the payouts suck,
so I wouldn't expect anyone to do anything but try it for ****'s & giggles, if at all??
Plus how many qualified guys are just walking around with 10 million in their pocket to even attempt a project like this??
It would be frigging awesome, that's for sure, but I'm way too old to ever hope to see it happen??
Now, if someone has a bunch of money to throw around, I have an injected alcohol ProCharger car sitting in my shop.
For the right guy, I would gladly offer it up for testing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now is the perfect time, I'm getting new pistons, so it's all set to get the proper compression needed!!
All we need is the qualified tuner and a big fat check to JBL and Son Dragracing!!
.
The fuel class's have been around for 50+ years now, and they have done pretty well with the blown & injected combinations.
There is not enough money in our world for anyone with a brain to even attempt a new class or series just for turbo's nitro combination.
Now I would love to see some rich guy do it, and I will be the 1st in line to get in!!
Hell, we can barely get enough cars for the class' we have, plus the payouts suck,
so I wouldn't expect anyone to do anything but try it for ****'s & giggles, if at all??
Plus how many qualified guys are just walking around with 10 million in their pocket to even attempt a project like this??
It would be frigging awesome, that's for sure, but I'm way too old to ever hope to see it happen??
Now, if someone has a bunch of money to throw around, I have an injected alcohol ProCharger car sitting in my shop.
For the right guy, I would gladly offer it up for testing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now is the perfect time, I'm getting new pistons, so it's all set to get the proper compression needed!!
All we need is the qualified tuner and a big fat check to JBL and Son Dragracing!!
.
Hell you have times that you can't even get a good LSx racing going due to tons of reasons.
Can one do it? I would think so, does someone want to blow money to find out. Not likely.
03-30-2012, 08:57 PM
#18
TECH Addict
so not sure exactly what this means for a turbo application but i don't think it would be impossible. i mean pretty much everything on a top fuel motor has to be special made for that application anyways, so a turbo would be no exception. i think the biggest hurdle would be the extreme RPM and pressures associated with these motors.
03-31-2012, 07:37 AM
#20
6 & 8 Second Club
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois, RT 66 dragway area
Posts: 2,284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.
Didn't think of the exhaust issue??
I wonder what would happen to a standard turbo with that much pressure, heat, going through??
Nitro engines are low RPM so I wonder if moving the turbos back would help them survive??
It's not like you would need them right on top of the engine to get the force needed to spin them??
They do need a lot of air, so the expert engineers would have to calculate that part.
.
Didn't think of the exhaust issue??
I wonder what would happen to a standard turbo with that much pressure, heat, going through??
Nitro engines are low RPM so I wonder if moving the turbos back would help them survive??
It's not like you would need them right on top of the engine to get the force needed to spin them??
They do need a lot of air, so the expert engineers would have to calculate that part.
.