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Old 06-16-2007, 09:02 PM   #1
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Default Ladder Bars vs. 4 Link

I've always had plans to back half my Camaro at some point. I was planning on a 4 link, but it always looked way too involved for me to do with my resources. Then yesterday I saw the first 4th gen I've seen with ladder bars and it kind of changed my mind.

I've seen 1 4th gen with ladder bars and about 3-5 with a 4 link and wonder is this just preference or is there something behind it? I know the ladder bar vs. 4 link is sort of a preference thing, but what do you think? Ease of install, reliability, adjustability, and other factors?
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Old 06-16-2007, 09:31 PM   #2
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what are your power goals? a 4-link or ladder bar setup may be too much..
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Old 06-16-2007, 09:36 PM   #3
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4 links are harder to tune, with many different points of CG to choose from, where a ladder bar is alot easier to tune, but always hits the tires very hard
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Old 06-16-2007, 09:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Out1aw
what are your power goals? a 4-link or ladder bar setup may be too much..
800-900+ through a 4l80E. I know it's not necessary as stock suspension guys have been in the 7s and I don't plan on getting anywhere near that. The thing is that as stated here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPMuscle
because back half cars are cooler. Theres no question that the stock style cars are going real fast now days but alot of guys doing depending on the class they race in, different requirements and different guidlines. but in the end when it comes down to it backhalfed cars are cooler.

-john
Back half cars are cooler. The price isn't that much different than running a torque arm suspension, just more labor intensive to get it in there. I just want to know what others prefer and why.

Right now I'm leaning towards the ladder bars as this:


Looks much easier to install than this:


If there's an obvious reason though why a 4 link is better than ladder bars I'd be more than willing to change my mind.
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Old 06-17-2007, 10:08 AM   #5
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http://www.cachassisworks.com/Storie...AC-003_WEB.pdf
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Old 06-17-2007, 11:24 AM   #6
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If you are going to street drive the car, which is obvious with the 4L80E, why would you cut the back of the car up? You can put a 315/60 drag radial on these cars with a minitub and stock suspension. I have a 325/50(almost 12 inches wide) UNDER my car with a minitub. You can rip the rear bumper off the car with stock suspension.

WIth the pic above that you are leaning towards...with stock rear framerails in the car....you cant run any larger tire than I stated above..I don't see the real advantage of doing it...to each his own I guess.


David
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Old 06-17-2007, 07:36 PM   #7
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we usually poke fun of the guys with 33x15 slicks running 11's.
its not cooler, imo.
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Old 06-17-2007, 09:47 PM   #8
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that first picture is not really a "backhalf". it does not have the rear frame rails. it looks like it still uses the stock rear half of the car. it is still nice due to the fact that with a minitub the only thing that gets in the way is the lower control arm. i have always wanted to build a car like that. oh and the second pic is of my car. if you do it like the first pic it will save you the haedache of all the sheet metal work. but i do like having the wheel tubs in my car big enough to put a huge tire on the car and tuck them up as far as i want.

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Old 06-17-2007, 10:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotRod68Camaro
That's a really good link that helps a lot. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtec
we usually poke fun of the guys with 33x15 slicks running 11's.
its not cooler, imo.
I plan on running a little faster than 11s. Thanks for the help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9sec93
that first picture is not really a "backhalf". it does not have the rear frame rails. it looks like it still uses the stock rear half of the car. it is still nice due to the fact that with a minitub the only thing that gets in the way is the lower control arm. i have always wanted to build a car like that. oh and the second pic is of my car. if you do it like the first pic it will save you the haedache of all the sheet metal work. but i do like having the wheel tubs in my car big enough to put a huge tire on the car and tuck them up as far as i want.
I've always refered to your car as what my Camaro wants to be when it grows up.

After reading that article about adjustability how long and involved was it to get your suspension dialed in? I read the whole back halving thread and noticed that everyone said the metal work was the worst part. I like the benefits of adjustability and being able to fit large tires like you said, but I don't know if it's within my capacity to be able to do something like that. Granted it's probably going to be a year or two until I get my Formula fixed and save up enough money to get this started and maybe things will change by then?
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Old 06-17-2007, 11:23 PM   #10
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man, I say go for it. some people just dont get it...Ive always wanted a prostreet car and one day plan to do one. IIRC, the 4-link is supposed to be a little more friendly when it comes to adjustibility, thus giving you the ability to dial in a more precise suspension tune than a ladder bar setup. But in the end, you really cant go wrong with either setup, as they both are proven performers!
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Old 06-18-2007, 02:13 PM   #11
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the main reason i went with the 4-link is look how far back my crossmember sits compared to how far forward the ladder bar crossmember sits. i just didnt want to cut the floor that far forward.
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9sec93
the main reason i went with the 4-link is look how far back my crossmember sits compared to how far forward the ladder bar crossmember sits. i just didnt want to cut the floor that far forward.
Not knocking, just asking. Wouldn't cutting further forward provide greater weight transfer with allowing a longer rod to connect further forward? Ideally if you had enough power it seems like it would work? Granted there's probably a limit as to how far forward the mounts should be which I have no idea about.
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Old 06-18-2007, 10:19 PM   #13
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4 link > ladder bars
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Old 06-19-2007, 09:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaflag VonRathburg
Not knocking, just asking. Wouldn't cutting further forward provide greater weight transfer with allowing a longer rod to connect further forward? Ideally if you had enough power it seems like it would work? Granted there's probably a limit as to how far forward the mounts should be which I have no idea about.
not necessarily because with a 4-link the instant center is not where the bars are bolted to but where they would intersect. with a ladder bar the instant center is wherever ladder bar is bolted to. there are usually 96 different adjustments with a 4-link (depending on # of mounting holes) making it possible to have the instant center wherever you want and not having to cut your flor that far forward. while ladder bar cars do work very well, they do hit the tires very hard. this is because the instant center is usually behind the center of gravity giving you anti-squat. with the insant center further forward the center of gravity it will let the car squat some. although you want as much antisquat in the rear as possible, if you are over powering the tires on a launch it is nice to have the adjustabaility to take the shock away from the tires. there are other factors involved like height of the instant center and center of gravity but this sould give you an idea.
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4link, advantage, anti, bar, bars, car, drag, instal, ladder, link, long, racing, radial, squat, vrs, vs

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