5.3 cam only - need advice
10-04-2016, 10:20 AM
#63
Good to hear and best of all it was fixed without any changes in hardparts or money wasted.
Now, of course you could always go more aggressive with gears and stall but I favor getting a combo "right" before switching it. I've seen people spend a lot of money because a sensor or tuning issue wasn't resolved and they just started throwing parts at it to mask the problem instead of correcting it.
Now, of course you could always go more aggressive with gears and stall but I favor getting a combo "right" before switching it. I've seen people spend a lot of money because a sensor or tuning issue wasn't resolved and they just started throwing parts at it to mask the problem instead of correcting it.
10-12-2016, 08:11 PM
#64
I go away when people stop feeling troll'd by my posts. It usually takes a couple years. It goes something like this
step1: hateraid (U got troll'd by my initial posts)
step2: slow realization from initial haters (oh crap hes right, it was a setup)
step3: more haters join stragglers left behind from step1 (people who missed the first boat get troll'd by my continual postings)
step4: hateful sigs and avoidance (hes too good with words to argue with anymore so I'll just make a sig instead)
step5: general disregard (can't beat him, don't want to join him, he made me look stupid more than once so I avoid him)
step5.5: internet searches (keep seeing this guy wtf, all over the place)
step6: gradual acquiescence (has some good acceptable posts on other forums and alot of unique perspectives)
step7: realization and acceptance (my work here is done)
Its my seven step program to quit being a mad hater by the mad hatter.
lrn2internet
step1: hateraid (U got troll'd by my initial posts)
step2: slow realization from initial haters (oh crap hes right, it was a setup)
step3: more haters join stragglers left behind from step1 (people who missed the first boat get troll'd by my continual postings)
step4: hateful sigs and avoidance (hes too good with words to argue with anymore so I'll just make a sig instead)
step5: general disregard (can't beat him, don't want to join him, he made me look stupid more than once so I avoid him)
step5.5: internet searches (keep seeing this guy wtf, all over the place)
step6: gradual acquiescence (has some good acceptable posts on other forums and alot of unique perspectives)
step7: realization and acceptance (my work here is done)
Its my seven step program to quit being a mad hater by the mad hatter.
lrn2internet
10-13-2016, 07:00 PM
#66
I go away when people stop feeling troll'd by my posts. It usually takes a couple years. It goes something like this
step1: hateraid (U got troll'd by my initial posts)
step2: slow realization from initial haters (oh crap hes right, it was a setup)
step3: more haters join stragglers left behind from step1 (people who missed the first boat get troll'd by my continual postings)
step4: hateful sigs and avoidance (hes too good with words to argue with anymore so I'll just make a sig instead)
step5: general disregard (can't beat him, don't want to join him, he made me look stupid more than once so I avoid him)
step5.5: internet searches (keep seeing this guy wtf, all over the place)
step6: gradual acquiescence (has some good acceptable posts on other forums and alot of unique perspectives)
step7: realization and acceptance (my work here is done)
Its my seven step program to quit being a mad hater by the mad hatter.
lrn2internet
step1: hateraid (U got troll'd by my initial posts)
step2: slow realization from initial haters (oh crap hes right, it was a setup)
step3: more haters join stragglers left behind from step1 (people who missed the first boat get troll'd by my continual postings)
step4: hateful sigs and avoidance (hes too good with words to argue with anymore so I'll just make a sig instead)
step5: general disregard (can't beat him, don't want to join him, he made me look stupid more than once so I avoid him)
step5.5: internet searches (keep seeing this guy wtf, all over the place)
step6: gradual acquiescence (has some good acceptable posts on other forums and alot of unique perspectives)
step7: realization and acceptance (my work here is done)
Its my seven step program to quit being a mad hater by the mad hatter.
lrn2internet
You should have just stopped after you posted this
I think that sometimes I just hate myself, so I want others to hate me also. This is where it happens, its like self trolling because point of view is everything when discussing these issues and nobody can ever say anybody is wrong because they can be right in their own heads.
"You must unlearn what you have learned"
"You may find that a great many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on the point of view"
-Starwars pretty sure the jedi guys each say this in turns
These discussions are tolerated better on some forums than others. The EFI section of MS for example- I posted similar graphs and received a reasonable feedback discussion.
"You must unlearn what you have learned"
"You may find that a great many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on the point of view"
-Starwars pretty sure the jedi guys each say this in turns
These discussions are tolerated better on some forums than others. The EFI section of MS for example- I posted similar graphs and received a reasonable feedback discussion.
10-14-2016, 01:07 AM
#67
As can be seen above, water is most definitily not only not inert but is a
very active and important player in the combustion of hydrocarbon fuel.
Ricardo and others have documented that under certain conditions ( normally
supercharged ) water can replace fuel up to about 50% and develop the same
power output, or that the power output can be increased by up to 50% addition
of water. This conditions were investigated by NACA and others for piston
aircraft engines. It is important to note that these improvements came at the
upper end of the power range where sufficient fuel and air was available to
have an excess of energy that could not be converted to usable pressure in a
timely manner.
very active and important player in the combustion of hydrocarbon fuel.
Ricardo and others have documented that under certain conditions ( normally
supercharged ) water can replace fuel up to about 50% and develop the same
power output, or that the power output can be increased by up to 50% addition
of water. This conditions were investigated by NACA and others for piston
aircraft engines. It is important to note that these improvements came at the
upper end of the power range where sufficient fuel and air was available to
have an excess of energy that could not be converted to usable pressure in a
timely manner.
I ran across this (short writing) and realized how easy it can be to become misled with respect to water injection, and power output. The paper is suggesting you can make more power when using water injection- and this is true. What they are NOT saying is that you can simply add the water to increase power. Water by itself is not giving more power, it is reducing temperature and reducing power, as we have already discussed. The reason they are able to get more power out of their engine while using water is because that water is supplemented with an additional airflow (air mass per unit time) which is why we raise the boost when using water injection, for more power with water. IF the compressor is tapped (out of breath) or output is otherwise not increased, then the water will reduce power output. If fuel is removed (water replacing that fuel, as above) the mixture becomes leaner, and the temperature goes up, which the water helps hold down, so there is a balance there between lean air/fuel ratio and higher temperatures being held down by water where the engine can safely operate, use less fuel, and EGT is within a safe range, but it will NOT add any power to the table without additional airflow. In other words (not that you need it, but) if you start replcing fuel with water, there will not be any extra power, but it will save you fuel. On the other hand, if you increase airflow and add water, you can make more power (because of the air) than you would have been able to otherwise without the additional water injection, thanks to water helping hold down temperature.
Also. Meth is a separate issue all together. It is fuel, like gasoline or ethanol. It has an octane rating and so forth. It can completely replace the fuel in the engine, 100% meth is an option, just like 98% Ethanol is an option and 100% C16 is an option. It deserves its own discussion, relevant topics should be handled separately. Since both 10% and 90% meth are options, discussion of "meth/water" needs to take place using a format that can compare all possible scenarios (from 1% to 100% meth, for example) with comparison to other fuels in the same application (it is much more difficult to discuss because of its variability and methods of use, spraying/mixing into the air vs spraying via an injector directly and so forth)
Every post is an attempt to generate discussion. If you compare it to dragging a fishing line around in a series of canals using a boat to "troll" for fishes, then whoever gets hooked was "baited" into discussion by the "trolling" of the canal. Its all a series of word games that in the end, I hope humans will learn from. or at least question their reality to the point of realizing that the majority of what is going in is filtered.
You can't quit the program, once you start it runs to completion
63,749 people are mad
Last edited by kingtal0n; 10-14-2016 at 01:20 AM.
10-14-2016, 08:21 AM
#68
Restricted User
Water by itself can increase power under certain circumstances.
The argument that it always reduces power because it always reduces heat is false.
Ever hard of Crower's six-cycle engine? I've seen it in person several years ago.
He even converted over an old hit-and-miss style engine to prove that water ALONE can produce power. The big, low RPM engine helped make it very obvious how the water was affecting it. He let it warm up to full temp, it was even slightly glowing red.
Then he turned on the water. The engine would fire on gas, and then come back and would get a large mist of water sprayed into it. The water would flash boil, and when it would expand it would actually produce a slight amount of torque, enough to speed the engine up. Torque produced by water. Fuel economy would be greatly increased. You could even lean it out to keep the cylinder hot, increasing the torque produced by the water.
The argument that it always reduces power because it always reduces heat is false.
Ever hard of Crower's six-cycle engine? I've seen it in person several years ago.
He even converted over an old hit-and-miss style engine to prove that water ALONE can produce power. The big, low RPM engine helped make it very obvious how the water was affecting it. He let it warm up to full temp, it was even slightly glowing red.
Then he turned on the water. The engine would fire on gas, and then come back and would get a large mist of water sprayed into it. The water would flash boil, and when it would expand it would actually produce a slight amount of torque, enough to speed the engine up. Torque produced by water. Fuel economy would be greatly increased. You could even lean it out to keep the cylinder hot, increasing the torque produced by the water.
10-14-2016, 09:18 AM
#69
Water by itself can increase power under certain circumstances.
The argument that it always reduces power because it always reduces heat is false.
Ever hard of Crower's six-cycle engine? I've seen it in person several years ago.
He even converted over an old hit-and-miss style engine to prove that water ALONE can produce power. The big, low RPM engine helped make it very obvious how the water was affecting it. He let it warm up to full temp, it was even slightly glowing red.
Then he turned on the water. The engine would fire on gas, and then come back and would get a large mist of water sprayed into it. The water would flash boil, and when it would expand it would actually produce a slight amount of torque, enough to speed the engine up. Torque produced by water. Fuel economy would be greatly increased. You could even lean it out to keep the cylinder hot, increasing the torque produced by the water.
The argument that it always reduces power because it always reduces heat is false.
Ever hard of Crower's six-cycle engine? I've seen it in person several years ago.
He even converted over an old hit-and-miss style engine to prove that water ALONE can produce power. The big, low RPM engine helped make it very obvious how the water was affecting it. He let it warm up to full temp, it was even slightly glowing red.
Then he turned on the water. The engine would fire on gas, and then come back and would get a large mist of water sprayed into it. The water would flash boil, and when it would expand it would actually produce a slight amount of torque, enough to speed the engine up. Torque produced by water. Fuel economy would be greatly increased. You could even lean it out to keep the cylinder hot, increasing the torque produced by the water.
10-14-2016, 10:18 AM
#70
I go away when people stop feeling troll'd by my posts. It usually takes a couple years. It goes something like this
step1: hateraid (U got troll'd by my initial posts)
step2: slow realization from initial haters (oh crap hes right, it was a setup)
step3: more haters join stragglers left behind from step1 (people who missed the first boat get troll'd by my continual postings)
step4: hateful sigs and avoidance (hes too good with words to argue with anymore so I'll just make a sig instead)
step5: general disregard (can't beat him, don't want to join him, he made me look stupid more than once so I avoid him)
step5.5: internet searches (keep seeing this guy wtf, all over the place)
step6: gradual acquiescence (has some good acceptable posts on other forums and alot of unique perspectives)
step7: realization and acceptance (my work here is done)
Its my seven step program to quit being a mad hater by the mad hatter.
lrn2internet
step1: hateraid (U got troll'd by my initial posts)
step2: slow realization from initial haters (oh crap hes right, it was a setup)
step3: more haters join stragglers left behind from step1 (people who missed the first boat get troll'd by my continual postings)
step4: hateful sigs and avoidance (hes too good with words to argue with anymore so I'll just make a sig instead)
step5: general disregard (can't beat him, don't want to join him, he made me look stupid more than once so I avoid him)
step5.5: internet searches (keep seeing this guy wtf, all over the place)
step6: gradual acquiescence (has some good acceptable posts on other forums and alot of unique perspectives)
step7: realization and acceptance (my work here is done)
Its my seven step program to quit being a mad hater by the mad hatter.
lrn2internet
OP - sorry you're thread got junked up. Glad you got it sorted out. I would have suggested more stall and gear as well based on my 5.3 experience. A stock one in a 5,500lb truck, it has zero low end torque and doesn't start to boogie until just under 3 grand. A modded one in a vette with a stall SHOULD be pretty good, sounds like it is now. Congrats.
Edit - Holy crap, I only looked at the dyno graph before. Just looked at the car. That thing is awesome.
10-17-2016, 02:41 PM
#71
A stock one in a 5,500lb truck, it has zero low end torque and doesn't start to boogie until just under 3 grand. A modded one in a vette with a stall SHOULD be pretty good, sounds like it is now. Congrats.
Edit - Holy crap, I only looked at the dyno graph before. Just looked at the car. That thing is awesome.
Edit - Holy crap, I only looked at the dyno graph before. Just looked at the car. That thing is awesome.
And yes the OP's car is pretty damn sweet.
10-21-2016, 06:54 PM
#73
Water by itself can increase power under certain circumstances.
The argument that it always reduces power because it always reduces heat is false.
Ever hard of Crower's six-cycle engine? I've seen it in person several years ago.
He even converted over an old hit-and-miss style engine to prove that water ALONE can produce power. The big, low RPM engine helped make it very obvious how the water was affecting it. He let it warm up to full temp, it was even slightly glowing red.
Then he turned on the water. The engine would fire on gas, and then come back and would get a large mist of water sprayed into it. The water would flash boil, and when it would expand it would actually produce a slight amount of torque, enough to speed the engine up. Torque produced by water. Fuel economy would be greatly increased. You could even lean it out to keep the cylinder hot, increasing the torque produced by the water.
The argument that it always reduces power because it always reduces heat is false.
Ever hard of Crower's six-cycle engine? I've seen it in person several years ago.
He even converted over an old hit-and-miss style engine to prove that water ALONE can produce power. The big, low RPM engine helped make it very obvious how the water was affecting it. He let it warm up to full temp, it was even slightly glowing red.
Then he turned on the water. The engine would fire on gas, and then come back and would get a large mist of water sprayed into it. The water would flash boil, and when it would expand it would actually produce a slight amount of torque, enough to speed the engine up. Torque produced by water. Fuel economy would be greatly increased. You could even lean it out to keep the cylinder hot, increasing the torque produced by the water.
First, the fuel. When we burn a fuel, it generates temp rise, and pressure, which depend upon the volume at the time. Temp, volume, and pressure changes are the key to understanding physical chemistry behind simple PVT reactions (pressure, volume, temp). We only need to look at 2 of these to find the third, generally. Again, I don't want to do any math (anybody want to see my physical chemistry homework? lol) but I think we can all agree that without the fuel, there will be no temp rise, no pressure. In other words, you cannot inject water to a room temperature metal surface and get an explosion of any kind. No torque from that. On the other hand, if the surface of the metal is 1000*F and you inject water onto it, there will be quite a frenzy as the water is driven away as a gas suddenly, and perhaps an explosion is what we would "see" as a result.
So now you have to tie the two together, simply enough. You must see that the reason water reacts the way it does (explodes/produces torque) is due to the fuel, or rather due to the temp rise created by the fuel. i.e. We are still extracting energy from the fuel that was lost as temperature rise initially.
And I'll stop there before going any further to allow for questions, and pick this up next time I get a chance, and I may also have a small diagram to consider as well. Please use this time to think about and generate questions you are interested in.
Last edited by kingtal0n; 10-21-2016 at 07:01 PM.
10-21-2016, 07:06 PM
#74
I might be a mystical creature, but that is no excuse for rudeness. Once you get past the idea that I am here for personal glory / to be right on the internet (I prefer to be wrong, and gladly accept wrongness, even going so far as to invite it) you can use some of the words here to change your life for the better. Alot of the concepts I attach meaning to are shared ideology which can be applied to more than one area of life, so as you learn about one car related adventure you are interested in here, you are also potentially learning about other things without realizing it, because I build foundations, I do not fish for the man. The benefit will become apparent at some point (perhaps 2 years) and you will thank me.
11-17-2016, 06:24 PM
#76
Teching In
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Update - installed a 3200 stall, and the car is a completely different animal. It will roast the tires 150ft easy, from a 5mph roll. Now to get some tires for the track...
