403 w/ AFR 205's (A4 with converter) puts down 490/465!!
05-17-2007, 01:40 PM
#1
403 w/ AFR 205's (A4 with converter) puts down 490/465!! Guys....
Awhile back I started a thread and posted engine dyno results concerning a 403 LS2 engine I built for Roy and Laura Vincent destined to be installed in their 04' GTO.
It was a mild build-up but one that focused on hitting all the details. Essentially Roy gave me the latitude to build this as if it were my own, and as most of you know I strive to put up big numbers in milder, more user friendly packages.
Here is a link to the original thread....some of the graghs and pics need to be re-hosted but I will work on that over the next day or two.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=649674&page=1
The chassis dyno results certainly back up the numbers we saw on the engine dyno back in February. In fact I told Roy I was hoping for 475-480 RWHP not knowing how efficient the converter and rest of the package would be. As the headline of the thread has already given away we did even better after the smoke cleared.
All of the chassis dyno work and tuning needs to be credited to Lance Viscioni who is the owner of Val's Performance, a shop some 50 miles outside of Chicago and close to Roy and Laura's home. I know Lance worked very hard to try an optimize a package he was excited to work with after seeing all the engine dyno information Roy had provided him with.
Here is the final gragh....it certainly is a good looking power curve.
A few things to note....These results were thru a brand new level five 4L65 transmission (which Im sure robs a little more power than a conventional 4L60), aftermarket 3.90 gears, and the 3600 stall converter. As most of you know all of these mods help detract from "hero" numbers on the chassis dyno. Roy and I have discussed a tighter more efficient converter because this combination has so much low speed grunt its probably more than he needs. Lance says first gear is practically useless and he spends less than a second there at WOT (right from the datalog). The trans cant shift as fast as the engine wants to accelerate in the lower gears occasionally hitting the 7K rev limiter even though Lance is commanding a 6500 RPM shiftpoint. IMO, with the immediate TQ this combination provides a 2800 stall would have been more than adequate and might have worked better, especially for a car that will see most of its cruising on the street, not the dragstrip.
These numbers were also recorded thru cats and his factory exhaust but utilizing electric cutout's between the cats and mufflers. We had considered dropping the cats to see if we could get closer to the magical 500 mark, but knowing Roy would never run the car that way decided to spend more time optimizing the combo with the cats in place.
Also worthy of mention is how well the combo carries power in spite of a "small" 205 cc intake runner, 1.75" headers, and a small cam on a larger displacement build...in some respects it goes against conventional wisdom and shows you what the right package as a whole is capable of.
These numbers were recorded using a DynoJet 224 inertia dyno and of course the converter was locked during all the testing.
Lance says the car has a very stealthy idle and drives like stock....just has gobs of low speed TQ, insane throttle response, and simply explodes when you go WOT....traction is a major issue.
I am trying to get a sound clip of it and might be able to make that happen over the next few days.
Just thought I would pass all this info along....while this combination is admitedly expensive to duplicate.....the real world results might justify the added expense for some of the more conservative folks out there. It's pretty close to having your cake and eating it to as I know of very few A4 cars (with similar displacement) making this much power regardless of good or bad street manners.
Congrats Roy and Laura....its been a long road but a very worthwhile journey to say the least
Cheers,
Tony M.
Awhile back I started a thread and posted engine dyno results concerning a 403 LS2 engine I built for Roy and Laura Vincent destined to be installed in their 04' GTO.
It was a mild build-up but one that focused on hitting all the details. Essentially Roy gave me the latitude to build this as if it were my own, and as most of you know I strive to put up big numbers in milder, more user friendly packages.
Here is a link to the original thread....some of the graghs and pics need to be re-hosted but I will work on that over the next day or two.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=649674&page=1
The chassis dyno results certainly back up the numbers we saw on the engine dyno back in February. In fact I told Roy I was hoping for 475-480 RWHP not knowing how efficient the converter and rest of the package would be. As the headline of the thread has already given away we did even better after the smoke cleared.
All of the chassis dyno work and tuning needs to be credited to Lance Viscioni who is the owner of Val's Performance, a shop some 50 miles outside of Chicago and close to Roy and Laura's home. I know Lance worked very hard to try an optimize a package he was excited to work with after seeing all the engine dyno information Roy had provided him with.
Here is the final gragh....it certainly is a good looking power curve.
A few things to note....These results were thru a brand new level five 4L65 transmission (which Im sure robs a little more power than a conventional 4L60), aftermarket 3.90 gears, and the 3600 stall converter. As most of you know all of these mods help detract from "hero" numbers on the chassis dyno. Roy and I have discussed a tighter more efficient converter because this combination has so much low speed grunt its probably more than he needs. Lance says first gear is practically useless and he spends less than a second there at WOT (right from the datalog). The trans cant shift as fast as the engine wants to accelerate in the lower gears occasionally hitting the 7K rev limiter even though Lance is commanding a 6500 RPM shiftpoint. IMO, with the immediate TQ this combination provides a 2800 stall would have been more than adequate and might have worked better, especially for a car that will see most of its cruising on the street, not the dragstrip.
These numbers were also recorded thru cats and his factory exhaust but utilizing electric cutout's between the cats and mufflers. We had considered dropping the cats to see if we could get closer to the magical 500 mark, but knowing Roy would never run the car that way decided to spend more time optimizing the combo with the cats in place.
Also worthy of mention is how well the combo carries power in spite of a "small" 205 cc intake runner, 1.75" headers, and a small cam on a larger displacement build...in some respects it goes against conventional wisdom and shows you what the right package as a whole is capable of.
These numbers were recorded using a DynoJet 224 inertia dyno and of course the converter was locked during all the testing.
Lance says the car has a very stealthy idle and drives like stock....just has gobs of low speed TQ, insane throttle response, and simply explodes when you go WOT....traction is a major issue.
I am trying to get a sound clip of it and might be able to make that happen over the next few days.
Just thought I would pass all this info along....while this combination is admitedly expensive to duplicate.....the real world results might justify the added expense for some of the more conservative folks out there. It's pretty close to having your cake and eating it to as I know of very few A4 cars (with similar displacement) making this much power regardless of good or bad street manners.
Congrats Roy and Laura....its been a long road but a very worthwhile journey to say the least
Cheers,
Tony M.
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 05-17-2007 at 09:48 PM.
05-17-2007, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Guys....
Awhile back I started a thread and posted engine dyno results concerning a 403 LS2 engine I built for Roy and Laura Vincent destined to be installed in their 04' GTO.
It was a mild build-up but one that focused on hitting all the details. Essentially Roy gave me the latitude to build this as if it were my own, and as most of you know I strive to put up big numbers in milder, more user friendly packages.
Here is a link to the original thread....some of the graghs and pics need to be re-hosted but I will work on that over the next day or two.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=649674&page=1
The chassis dyno results certainly back up the numbers we saw on the engine dyno back in February. In fact I told Roy I was hoping for 475-480 RWHP not knowing how efficient the converter and rest of the package would be. As the headline of the thread has already given away we did even better after the smoke cleared.
All of the chassis dyno work and tuning needs to be credited to Lance Viscioni who is the owner of Val's Performance, a shop some 50 miles outside of Chicago and close to Roy and Laura's home. I know Lance worked very hard to try an optimize a package he was excited to work with after seeing all the engine dyno information Roy had provided him with.
Here is the final gragh....it certainly is a good looking power curve.
A few things to note....These results were thru a brand new level five 4L65 transmission (which Im sure robs a little more power than a conventional 4L60), aftermarket 3.90 gears, and the 3600 stall converter. As most of you know all of these mods help detract from "hero" numbers on the chassis dyno. Roy and I have discussed a tighter more efficient converter because this combination has so much low speed grunt its probably more than he needs. Lance says first gear is practically useless and he spends less than a second there at WOT (right from the datalog). The trans cant shift as fast as the engine wants to accelerate in the lower gears occasionally hitting the 7K rev limiter even though Lance is commanding a 6500 RPM shiftpoint. IMO, with the immediate TQ this combination provides a 2800 stall would have been more than adequate and might have worked better, especially for a car that will see most of its cruising on the street, not the dragstrip.
These numbers were also recorded thru cats and his factory exhaust but utilizing electric cutout's between the cats and mufflers. We had considered dropping the cats to see if we could get closer to the magical 500 mark, but knowing Roy would never run the car that way decided to spend more time optimizing the combo with the cats in place.
Also worthy of mention is how well the combo carries power in spite of a "small" 205 cc intake runner. 1.75" headers, and a small cam on a larger displacement build...in some respects it goes against conventional wisdom and shows you what the right package as a whole is capable of.
These numbers were recorded using a DynoJet 224 inertia dyno and of course the converter was locked during all the testing.
Lance says the car has a very stealthy idle and drives like stock....just has gobs of low speed TQ, insane throttle response, and simply explodes when you go WOT....traction is a major issue.
I am trying to get a sound clip of it and might be able to make that happen over the next few days.
Just thought I would pass all this info along....while this combination is admitedly expensive to duplicate.....the real world results might justify the added expense for some of the more conservative folks out there. It's pretty close to having your cake and eating it to as I know of very few A4 cars (with similar displacement) making this much power regardless of good or bad street manners.
Congrats Roy and Laura....its been a long road but a very worthwhile journey to say the least
Cheers,
Tony M.
Awhile back I started a thread and posted engine dyno results concerning a 403 LS2 engine I built for Roy and Laura Vincent destined to be installed in their 04' GTO.
It was a mild build-up but one that focused on hitting all the details. Essentially Roy gave me the latitude to build this as if it were my own, and as most of you know I strive to put up big numbers in milder, more user friendly packages.
Here is a link to the original thread....some of the graghs and pics need to be re-hosted but I will work on that over the next day or two.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=649674&page=1
The chassis dyno results certainly back up the numbers we saw on the engine dyno back in February. In fact I told Roy I was hoping for 475-480 RWHP not knowing how efficient the converter and rest of the package would be. As the headline of the thread has already given away we did even better after the smoke cleared.
All of the chassis dyno work and tuning needs to be credited to Lance Viscioni who is the owner of Val's Performance, a shop some 50 miles outside of Chicago and close to Roy and Laura's home. I know Lance worked very hard to try an optimize a package he was excited to work with after seeing all the engine dyno information Roy had provided him with.
Here is the final gragh....it certainly is a good looking power curve.
A few things to note....These results were thru a brand new level five 4L65 transmission (which Im sure robs a little more power than a conventional 4L60), aftermarket 3.90 gears, and the 3600 stall converter. As most of you know all of these mods help detract from "hero" numbers on the chassis dyno. Roy and I have discussed a tighter more efficient converter because this combination has so much low speed grunt its probably more than he needs. Lance says first gear is practically useless and he spends less than a second there at WOT (right from the datalog). The trans cant shift as fast as the engine wants to accelerate in the lower gears occasionally hitting the 7K rev limiter even though Lance is commanding a 6500 RPM shiftpoint. IMO, with the immediate TQ this combination provides a 2800 stall would have been more than adequate and might have worked better, especially for a car that will see most of its cruising on the street, not the dragstrip.
These numbers were also recorded thru cats and his factory exhaust but utilizing electric cutout's between the cats and mufflers. We had considered dropping the cats to see if we could get closer to the magical 500 mark, but knowing Roy would never run the car that way decided to spend more time optimizing the combo with the cats in place.
Also worthy of mention is how well the combo carries power in spite of a "small" 205 cc intake runner. 1.75" headers, and a small cam on a larger displacement build...in some respects it goes against conventional wisdom and shows you what the right package as a whole is capable of.
These numbers were recorded using a DynoJet 224 inertia dyno and of course the converter was locked during all the testing.
Lance says the car has a very stealthy idle and drives like stock....just has gobs of low speed TQ, insane throttle response, and simply explodes when you go WOT....traction is a major issue.
I am trying to get a sound clip of it and might be able to make that happen over the next few days.
Just thought I would pass all this info along....while this combination is admitedly expensive to duplicate.....the real world results might justify the added expense for some of the more conservative folks out there. It's pretty close to having your cake and eating it to as I know of very few A4 cars (with similar displacement) making this much power regardless of good or bad street manners.
Congrats Roy and Laura....its been a long road but a very worthwhile journey to say the least
Cheers,
Tony M.
Man that is really impressive. I need to trailar my car to you guys from Texas
05-17-2007, 03:01 PM
#4
Very impressive Tony. I bet that car is a blast to drive. That's 6 speed power in an automatic package...very difficult to do.
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2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
05-17-2007, 05:21 PM
#6
Originally Posted by speed_demon24
Nice #'s, it does look like the convertor was locked on the dyno though. 
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
05-17-2007, 05:26 PM
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These numbers were recorded using a DynoJet 224 inertia dyno and of course the converter was locked during all the testing.
Also, remember that the numbers are through the cats. It should lay down closer to 500 with open exhaust or cutouts and NO CATS!! Very impressive numbers in combination with a very streetable car. Drives like a stoker and A/C too..
Also, remember that the numbers are through the cats. It should lay down closer to 500 with open exhaust or cutouts and NO CATS!! Very impressive numbers in combination with a very streetable car. Drives like a stoker and A/C too..
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05-17-2007, 06:12 PM
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That's a wonderful setup. Torque everywhere, and I'm going to guess, excellent economy with those "smallish" ports and cam. Ideal driver. Roy has to be grinning from ear to ear.
05-17-2007, 08:09 PM
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I agree! Great numbers. I will tell you, our A4`s eat alot of power up! Great job! I`m with you, first gear I spin major! At a 50 roll she will leave the marks Gotta love it! Great job guys!
Gotta love it! Great job guys! 
05-17-2007, 11:16 PM
#12
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Yes, Tony mentioned that it was locked up, but even then, most locked-up automatics trail their 6 speed brethren by 20-30 rwhp in these high hp applications.
05-18-2007, 03:37 AM
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Very impressive job Tony as usual
Thats what i'm talkin about......More TQ down low 
peace
Originally Posted by speed_demon24
Missed that in the original post, gotta love almost 400rwtq at 3k.
peace
05-20-2007, 09:09 PM
#16
Well folks, I had a full weekend to drive the GTO and all I can say is WOW! 1st gear is as Tony stated, useless; Lance (the tuner) stated it stayed there for less than a second and he's right. When in 3rd and I floor it, the 2nd gear downshift fries the Nittos through a good portion of the gear. 4th to 3rd downshifts do a nice job of throwing me back in the seat. Took a few friends for a ride and they were amazed
No shaking of the car due to cam lope (as opposed to my old 228/228 112 lsa in the 347 which really loped and shook). I have to say, the exhaust is a bit louder due to the power increase which is fine by me
As Tony said, need a tighter converter but that will have to wait for a bit.
This project turned out beyond my expectations and again, I would like to thank Tony for making this possible. Lance, thanks for your help as well.
Also, I owe a video, however I don't own a camera so give me a few days have someone do the vid for me.
Cheers,
Roy
No shaking of the car due to cam lope (as opposed to my old 228/228 112 lsa in the 347 which really loped and shook). I have to say, the exhaust is a bit louder due to the power increase which is fine by me
As Tony said, need a tighter converter but that will have to wait for a bit.
This project turned out beyond my expectations and again, I would like to thank Tony for making this possible. Lance, thanks for your help as well.
Also, I owe a video, however I don't own a camera so give me a few days have someone do the vid for me.
Cheers,
Roy
Last edited by Roy V.; 05-20-2007 at 09:17 PM.
05-21-2007, 10:11 AM
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Very stout numbers tony!
If he is more serious about street manors then a Vig. 2800 stall would be a better converter for the street. Slap a good shot of nitrous on it and man that setup would fly!
If he is more serious about street manors then a Vig. 2800 stall would be a better converter for the street. Slap a good shot of nitrous on it and man that setup would fly!
05-21-2007, 12:55 PM
#20
Originally Posted by StreetStalkerZ
Very stout numbers tony!
If he is more serious about street manors then a Vig. 2800 stall would be a better converter for the street. Slap a good shot of nitrous on it and man that setup would fly!
If he is more serious about street manors then a Vig. 2800 stall would be a better converter for the street. Slap a good shot of nitrous on it and man that setup would fly!
I might have some video for you guys by the weekend....still working on making that happen.
Thanks,
Tony