346 CID, AFR 225's 14PSI = 800 RWHP!!
08-14-2007, 12:49 AM
#1
346 CID, AFR 225's 14PSI = 800 RWHP!! Well almost....
782 RWHP / 686 RWTQ
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1784108
Previous best numbers 702/635
What was changed??
We swapped a set of ported LS6 castings for our large bore 72 cc AFR 225's....same CR.
I spec'ed a custom cam with approx 4 more degrees at .050....its a baby at 224/230 on a 115 LSA (XER lobes).
Also removed the LS6 intake and ported factory TB and installed one of my ported FAST 90 / LS2 combos. Yes Virginia....a properly ported FAST does kick butt on a forced induction application in spite of the general opinion on the Net. Its what helped carry that beautiful TQ curve with a baby cam. Speedracer is making ludicrous power (over 900 RWHP!) with a ProCharger and has one of my ported intakes as well as a few others (NemesisC5 also comes to mind). No one is having any issues that I know of.
Anyone reasonably technical looking at the current dyno gragh should see with a little more time spent tuning its easily an 800 HP player. There was possibly some knock retard or belt slip at around 6200 or so which caused a small downward spike in the numbers upstairs. This was the first time tuning this combo....look for updates from me down the road after some shakedown runs and additional time on the chassis dyno.
Pump gas....torco octane additive....and methanol btw for those about to ask. And lets not forget to mention crappy 91 pump gas here in So Cal.
I thought some of the technical side of this swap was lost on the other board and felt you guys might better appreciate what was accomplished here.
The short is brand new btw....a little bit of break in time might free up a few more ponies as well.
One of these days I'm going forced induction....with the right combination its just too damn easy to make stupid power
Regards,
Tony
PS....Joel also swapped head units of the blower....I cant remember the exact details but ultimately the pulley selection was spot on because his target was the same boost (14 PSI) in the 6000-6500 range which was exactly where he ended up. The head units were/are both street pieces, nothing as radical as an "F" series ProCharger. I believe his new head unit was rated at 200 more CFM than his original baseline unit (not a huge difference in blower rating). A few months ago he was having some mechanical issues but had a few dyno runs in the 730 range at much lower RPM and only 12 lbs of boost....already up 30 RWHP over his previous best at 2 PSI less boost. At the time very encouraging for obvious reasons.
782 RWHP / 686 RWTQ
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1784108
Previous best numbers 702/635
What was changed??
We swapped a set of ported LS6 castings for our large bore 72 cc AFR 225's....same CR.
I spec'ed a custom cam with approx 4 more degrees at .050....its a baby at 224/230 on a 115 LSA (XER lobes).
Also removed the LS6 intake and ported factory TB and installed one of my ported FAST 90 / LS2 combos. Yes Virginia....a properly ported FAST does kick butt on a forced induction application in spite of the general opinion on the Net. Its what helped carry that beautiful TQ curve with a baby cam. Speedracer is making ludicrous power (over 900 RWHP!) with a ProCharger and has one of my ported intakes as well as a few others (NemesisC5 also comes to mind). No one is having any issues that I know of.
Anyone reasonably technical looking at the current dyno gragh should see with a little more time spent tuning its easily an 800 HP player. There was possibly some knock retard or belt slip at around 6200 or so which caused a small downward spike in the numbers upstairs. This was the first time tuning this combo....look for updates from me down the road after some shakedown runs and additional time on the chassis dyno.
Pump gas....torco octane additive....and methanol btw for those about to ask. And lets not forget to mention crappy 91 pump gas here in So Cal.
I thought some of the technical side of this swap was lost on the other board and felt you guys might better appreciate what was accomplished here.
The short is brand new btw....a little bit of break in time might free up a few more ponies as well.
One of these days I'm going forced induction....with the right combination its just too damn easy to make stupid power
Regards,
Tony
PS....Joel also swapped head units of the blower....I cant remember the exact details but ultimately the pulley selection was spot on because his target was the same boost (14 PSI) in the 6000-6500 range which was exactly where he ended up. The head units were/are both street pieces, nothing as radical as an "F" series ProCharger. I believe his new head unit was rated at 200 more CFM than his original baseline unit (not a huge difference in blower rating). A few months ago he was having some mechanical issues but had a few dyno runs in the 730 range at much lower RPM and only 12 lbs of boost....already up 30 RWHP over his previous best at 2 PSI less boost. At the time very encouraging for obvious reasons.
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 08-14-2007 at 12:56 AM.
08-14-2007, 08:20 AM
#5
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As always good stuff Tony.
We'll have to talk when the time comes for me to make the jump from N/A to FI !!!
I only want 650 rwhp though, don't want to run Meth. Just want to get in and go. Don't need drive line breaking power these guys are making. J/K would love it but want a problem free setup. I'll be in touch.
We'll have to talk when the time comes for me to make the jump from N/A to FI !!!
I only want 650 rwhp though, don't want to run Meth. Just want to get in and go. Don't need drive line breaking power these guys are making. J/K would love it but want a problem free setup. I'll be in touch.
08-14-2007, 08:52 AM
#6
OK, now you're making the decision harder...
C6? or TA with a blower?
Decisions, decisions.
C6? or TA with a blower?
Decisions, decisions.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
If that guy goes up to Willow, it should be a blast on the front straight. Trending Topics
08-14-2007, 09:15 AM
#9
Originally Posted by Patrick G
OK, now you're making the decision harder...
C6? or TA with a blower? Decisions, decisions.
C6? or TA with a blower?
Decisions, decisions.
08-14-2007, 11:16 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Slowhawk
Congrats Tony,but what all the excitement about? 
Here is the same setup -346,AFR 225's, 224/230 cam with 14lbs on straight 93 octain from 2005 .These motor's like boost
Here is the same setup -346,AFR 225's, 224/230 cam with 14lbs on straight 93 octain from 2005 .These motor's like boost
What was more exciting for me personally is the net gains from the parts swapped.....although no matter how you slice it close to 800 RWHP from a 346 is impressive on pump gas. Actually from my perspective there's a little more to the story. The customer thought I was half full of baloney and selling him a bag of rocks whenever we had the chance to discuss the potential head/intake swap over the last two years....LOL (At the very least I will say he was very pessemistic that our heads would produce significantly better results than the ported LS6 casting alot of time and money was invested in).
Of course, things didnt go that smoothly at first (after the swap) with various fuel delivery issues and other "gremlins" and ultimately it appeared the results were kind of mediocre (better but not as good as we had hoped and probaby alot closer to what he expected....LOL). Turns out the largest issue was the number four main bearing slowly welding itself to the crank heating the oil and creating obvious excess drag. Once that situation became clearly apparent (and ultimately resolved) everything started to fall in place with the results actually exceeding the 750-775 target figure him and I had discussed very early on.
Also Don, 800 RWHP 346 inch blown street engines are not that common....not yet anyway. You certainly had a good piece awhile back.
Catch up with you at SEMA
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 08-14-2007 at 11:37 AM.
08-14-2007, 03:23 PM
#16
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
One of these days I'm going forced induction....with the right combination its just too damn easy to make stupid power
It's your lucky day. I'll do you a favor right now and buy your C5's worn out, beat on, weak little 383, oil pan to intake, for $2,000 shipped. This is a one time offer so you better take it now and I'm sure you will.
08-14-2007, 03:52 PM
#17
Not no real news here either but nice numbers, I made 750 with the old 222/228 115 XE cam, 225 small bore AFRs and 16psi through a TH400, 8" converter 9" ford and slicks. Was on 104 unleaded but could have did it with pump on the dyno I'm sure, not sure I would have raced the car on pump though.
People underestimate these little 346s, with the new cam (232/240 @ 115 XER) it does quite a bit better in the peak power department, avg is up pretty well in the 6400-7000rpm range which is what I care about.
Be interested to see a direct swap between the LS6 and your 90/90, I am one of 'them guys' why ran a 90/90 for a while and never picked up a thing but that was with the old heads and Z06 cam. One might show some improvemnt on this combo.
Dont be surprised if with a little more tweaking if you cant get close to 1000 with some good gas if the blower has the snot. have fun with it..
People underestimate these little 346s, with the new cam (232/240 @ 115 XER) it does quite a bit better in the peak power department, avg is up pretty well in the 6400-7000rpm range which is what I care about.
Be interested to see a direct swap between the LS6 and your 90/90, I am one of 'them guys' why ran a 90/90 for a while and never picked up a thing but that was with the old heads and Z06 cam. One might show some improvemnt on this combo.
Dont be surprised if with a little more tweaking if you cant get close to 1000 with some good gas if the blower has the snot. have fun with it..
08-14-2007, 07:10 PM
#18
KP...
I helped a customer awhile back with one of my ported 90 set-ups and we were both a little disappointed with the gains (around 12-14 RWHP if I recall).
Long story short is he had a pair of budget ported OEM heads and at the time the only thing that made a little sense is that a weaker flowing head is obviously less resricted by an LS6 manifold. We discussed some 205's in his future and about 3-6 months later he finally bit the bullet and did the swap (He was already making 430+ RWHP, had a sizable cam in the mid high 230's @ .050, headers, my ported intake, CAI....all the typical bolt-ons). Long story short is the head swap picked him up close to 50+ RWHP with no other changes and only a slight bump in CR.
IMO, the extra 10-15 ponies he picked up over a typical head swap was unlocked due to tapping into the better manifold he had purchased months prior. Now he had a head that could better exploit the capabilities of the higher flowing larger manifold.
That was my theory at the time and it certainly makes alot of sense.
Sharpe...
My 383 is junk and you would be overpaying me at 2K shipped....LOL
Would you take $1500??
I helped a customer awhile back with one of my ported 90 set-ups and we were both a little disappointed with the gains (around 12-14 RWHP if I recall).
Long story short is he had a pair of budget ported OEM heads and at the time the only thing that made a little sense is that a weaker flowing head is obviously less resricted by an LS6 manifold. We discussed some 205's in his future and about 3-6 months later he finally bit the bullet and did the swap (He was already making 430+ RWHP, had a sizable cam in the mid high 230's @ .050, headers, my ported intake, CAI....all the typical bolt-ons). Long story short is the head swap picked him up close to 50+ RWHP with no other changes and only a slight bump in CR.
IMO, the extra 10-15 ponies he picked up over a typical head swap was unlocked due to tapping into the better manifold he had purchased months prior. Now he had a head that could better exploit the capabilities of the higher flowing larger manifold.
That was my theory at the time and it certainly makes alot of sense.
Sharpe...
My 383 is junk and you would be overpaying me at 2K shipped....LOL
Would you take $1500??
08-14-2007, 07:48 PM
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Hey Tony-send me a set of those 225's with the 65cc chambers and i'll show you a 1000rwhp 346 on pump gas and meth!!!! Come on man-I already made 920-if i can't do it i'll send them back! 