Obama blows another one
07-31-2009, 12:04 AM
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Obama blows another one Cash for Clunkers SUSPENDED
‘Clunkers’ Auto Rebate Plan So Popular That It’s Broke
By MATTHEW L. WALD
Published: July 30, 2009
WASHINGTON — New-car shoppers appear to have already snapped up all the $1 billion that Congress appropriated for the “cash for clunkers” program, leading the Transportation Department to tell auto dealers Thursday night to stop offering the rebates.
***But a White House official said the program had not been suspended, creating confusion about its status.***The program offers $3,500 to $4,500 for people who trade in an old car for a new one with higher fuel economy.
In a statement issued Thursday evening, Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, said: “We are working tonight to assess the situation facing what is obviously an incredibly popular program. Auto dealers and consumers should have confidence that all valid CARS transactions that have taken place to date will be honored.”
The program, formally known as the Car Allowance Rebate System, was scheduled to be offered until Nov. 1, or as long as the money was available. But the program was so successful that it has exhausted all the money allocated within the first week. Dealers have submitted applications on behalf of consumers seeking rebates on about a quarter-million vehicles.
The National Automobile Dealers Association surveyed its members in recent days and warned the Transportation Department on Thursday that it had a very large backlog of applications, said Bailey Wood, a spokesman for the association.
Late in the day, the group said the Transportation Department had responded by telling it to stop taking applications at midnight. The government and the dealers were concerned that buyers would close trade-in deals to buy new cars assuming they had a big rebate coming only to discover later that money was not available.
The dealers’ group said late Thursday night that it had not heard about the White House policy reversing the decision. Mr. Wood said that his group would ask Congress and the White House to add money to the plan.
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood has already been making calls to members of Congress, telling them about the situation. The Michigan delegation was planning a meeting Friday morning to discuss the situation, a Congressional aide said.
On Thursday evening, the government Web site describing the program, www.cars.gov, still showed a chart shaped like a fuel gauge that indicated $779 million was available for trade-ins of cars and light trucks. Earlier Thursday, the Transportation Department issued a news release that said that applications for fewer than 23,000 vehicles had been submitted as of Wednesday, with a rebate value of just under $100 million.
The Transportation Department had begun accepting applications for the rebates on Monday, when rules putting the program in place took effect. But car dealers had been accumulating the applications since July 1, when Congress put the law into effect.
The program had two goals: aiding the ailing car industry and improving fuel economy of the vehicles on the road.
Cars submitted under the program were to be junked. They had to be less than 25 years old and have a fuel economy, as rated by the window sticker, of 18 miles a gallon or less.
The size of the rebate depended on the fuel economy of the replacement vehicle. Consumers were also supposed to receive the scrap value of their trade-ins.
From the dealers’ point of view, the program was a resounding success.
“Two hundred and fifty thousand vehicles in four weeks?” Mr. Wood said. “One word comes out of my mouth: Wow.”
As word spread unofficially on Thursday night, car dealers were suddenly unsure of what to tell would-be buyers.
A Ford dealership in Paramus, N.J., did not know of the apparent suspension until a reporter called seeking comment.
Other dealers said they had no idea what the status of the program was, or whether the deals that they had already signed would be honored by the government. Some said they were notified by e-mail message by fellow dealers.
The dealers’ association, however, had been warning that the money would go quickly.
Under the program, a buyer who picked a car with a mileage improvement of more than four miles per gallon but less than 10 were eligible for $3,500; a buyer whose new vehicle was rated 10 miles per gallon or better than the old one was eligible for $4,500.
Until the cash-for-clunkers program began, the auto industry had been on track for annual sales of about 10 million units, down from the peak of about 16 million units a year.
Katharine Q. Seelye contributed reporting from New York.
‘Clunkers’ Auto Rebate Plan So Popular That It’s Broke
By MATTHEW L. WALD
Published: July 30, 2009
WASHINGTON — New-car shoppers appear to have already snapped up all the $1 billion that Congress appropriated for the “cash for clunkers” program, leading the Transportation Department to tell auto dealers Thursday night to stop offering the rebates.
***But a White House official said the program had not been suspended, creating confusion about its status.***The program offers $3,500 to $4,500 for people who trade in an old car for a new one with higher fuel economy.
In a statement issued Thursday evening, Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, said: “We are working tonight to assess the situation facing what is obviously an incredibly popular program. Auto dealers and consumers should have confidence that all valid CARS transactions that have taken place to date will be honored.”
The program, formally known as the Car Allowance Rebate System, was scheduled to be offered until Nov. 1, or as long as the money was available. But the program was so successful that it has exhausted all the money allocated within the first week. Dealers have submitted applications on behalf of consumers seeking rebates on about a quarter-million vehicles.
The National Automobile Dealers Association surveyed its members in recent days and warned the Transportation Department on Thursday that it had a very large backlog of applications, said Bailey Wood, a spokesman for the association.
Late in the day, the group said the Transportation Department had responded by telling it to stop taking applications at midnight. The government and the dealers were concerned that buyers would close trade-in deals to buy new cars assuming they had a big rebate coming only to discover later that money was not available.
The dealers’ group said late Thursday night that it had not heard about the White House policy reversing the decision. Mr. Wood said that his group would ask Congress and the White House to add money to the plan.
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood has already been making calls to members of Congress, telling them about the situation. The Michigan delegation was planning a meeting Friday morning to discuss the situation, a Congressional aide said.
On Thursday evening, the government Web site describing the program, www.cars.gov, still showed a chart shaped like a fuel gauge that indicated $779 million was available for trade-ins of cars and light trucks. Earlier Thursday, the Transportation Department issued a news release that said that applications for fewer than 23,000 vehicles had been submitted as of Wednesday, with a rebate value of just under $100 million.
The Transportation Department had begun accepting applications for the rebates on Monday, when rules putting the program in place took effect. But car dealers had been accumulating the applications since July 1, when Congress put the law into effect.
The program had two goals: aiding the ailing car industry and improving fuel economy of the vehicles on the road.
Cars submitted under the program were to be junked. They had to be less than 25 years old and have a fuel economy, as rated by the window sticker, of 18 miles a gallon or less.
The size of the rebate depended on the fuel economy of the replacement vehicle. Consumers were also supposed to receive the scrap value of their trade-ins.
From the dealers’ point of view, the program was a resounding success.
“Two hundred and fifty thousand vehicles in four weeks?” Mr. Wood said. “One word comes out of my mouth: Wow.”
As word spread unofficially on Thursday night, car dealers were suddenly unsure of what to tell would-be buyers.
A Ford dealership in Paramus, N.J., did not know of the apparent suspension until a reporter called seeking comment.
Other dealers said they had no idea what the status of the program was, or whether the deals that they had already signed would be honored by the government. Some said they were notified by e-mail message by fellow dealers.
The dealers’ association, however, had been warning that the money would go quickly.
Under the program, a buyer who picked a car with a mileage improvement of more than four miles per gallon but less than 10 were eligible for $3,500; a buyer whose new vehicle was rated 10 miles per gallon or better than the old one was eligible for $4,500.
Until the cash-for-clunkers program began, the auto industry had been on track for annual sales of about 10 million units, down from the peak of about 16 million units a year.
Katharine Q. Seelye contributed reporting from New York.
07-31-2009, 05:44 AM
#2
What I don't like about the program is that the dealer that trades the "clunker" in is required to seize the engine before it leaves. And then it gets crushed can not use any parts off the car.
We had somebody trade in a 94 mustang GT under that program. clean car straight body and nice paint 173k on the car. The car is going to get destroyed and nothing from it can get used
We had somebody trade in a 94 mustang GT under that program. clean car straight body and nice paint 173k on the car. The car is going to get destroyed and nothing from it can get used
07-31-2009, 06:19 AM
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What I don't like about the program is that the dealer that trades the "clunker" in is required to seize the engine before it leaves. And then it gets crushed can not use any parts off the car.
We had somebody trade in a 94 mustang GT under that program. clean car straight body and nice paint 173k on the car. The car is going to get destroyed and nothing from it can get used
We had somebody trade in a 94 mustang GT under that program. clean car straight body and nice paint 173k on the car. The car is going to get destroyed and nothing from it can get used
07-31-2009, 08:22 AM
#5
The point of the program is to get the cars off the road, as there are more vehichles then licensed drivers which is due to the last 15-20 years of dumping cars into the market.
The program has a sound idea, to get beaters, and green house machine cars off the road but you have every dealer tacking that incentive on as it be a normal manufacturing rebate as per most people have a beater/clunker.
Not that it could be measured, but I would like to know the ratio of people who either bash Obama, or oppose the TARP money, but gladly use the money, if it was to their advantage.
Unfortunately, no matter WHO was elected, we would be facing tough decisions, but unfortunately 8 years of business as useual has put things almost to a "point of no return".
Americans in general/historically rarely imbrace change, and no matter what new technology is out there, we often would not like to implement it.
In less then 1-2 years oil prices have crippled the WORLD economy and that shows that we need to move further to going electric or hydrogen for the majority of cars. In less then 120 years, we blew through enough easily reachable oil and we need to change.
The program has merit, but I think they need more then 1 billion to get cars like this off the road. I wouldn't be suprised that we do not start seeing reports of fraud, from dealers or customers.
The program has a sound idea, to get beaters, and green house machine cars off the road but you have every dealer tacking that incentive on as it be a normal manufacturing rebate as per most people have a beater/clunker.
Not that it could be measured, but I would like to know the ratio of people who either bash Obama, or oppose the TARP money, but gladly use the money, if it was to their advantage.
Unfortunately, no matter WHO was elected, we would be facing tough decisions, but unfortunately 8 years of business as useual has put things almost to a "point of no return".
Americans in general/historically rarely imbrace change, and no matter what new technology is out there, we often would not like to implement it.
In less then 1-2 years oil prices have crippled the WORLD economy and that shows that we need to move further to going electric or hydrogen for the majority of cars. In less then 120 years, we blew through enough easily reachable oil and we need to change.
The program has merit, but I think they need more then 1 billion to get cars like this off the road. I wouldn't be suprised that we do not start seeing reports of fraud, from dealers or customers.
07-31-2009, 08:37 AM
#6
Program have any rules or anything, like if I was in the market for a new ride I would go out and buy a clunker for 500 bucks and get the money for a trade-in, guess that wouldn't matter anyway the clunker is coming off the road and a new car is being sold so who would care who was financing it right?
I agree with Black scream mach 100%
I agree with Black scream mach 100%
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07-31-2009, 08:48 AM
#8
Program have any rules or anything, like if I was in the market for a new ride I would go out and buy a clunker for 500 bucks and get the money for a trade-in, guess that wouldn't matter anyway the clunker is coming off the road and a new car is being sold so who would care who was financing it right?
I agree with Black scream mach 100%
I agree with Black scream mach 100%
07-31-2009, 08:49 AM
#9
Program have any rules or anything, like if I was in the market for a new ride I would go out and buy a clunker for 500 bucks and get the money for a trade-in, guess that wouldn't matter anyway the clunker is coming off the road and a new car is being sold so who would care who was financing it right?
I agree with Black scream mach 100%
I agree with Black scream mach 100%
clunker killer 
07-31-2009, 10:16 AM
#13
I dunno guys. I don't see how destroying *some* of these cars makes us more resourcefull. Some of them have a lot of life left and run fine. wouldn't it be more economical to keep what you got instead of going through another manufacturing process and filling up junkyards?
The purpose is an economy boost, they don't really give a **** about oil conservation and what not.
seems wastefull
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XnGNiL6fGo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DtsZE7o6_A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twwWjAq1fXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LidmCvdUMeg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IcIxhd8ks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo
The purpose is an economy boost, they don't really give a **** about oil conservation and what not.
seems wastefull
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XnGNiL6fGo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DtsZE7o6_A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twwWjAq1fXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LidmCvdUMeg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IcIxhd8ks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo
07-31-2009, 10:18 AM
#14
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/30/auto...nded/index.htm
Based on the CNN money section, The program needs additional funding to get it through the weekend.
As for it being dead, who knows. I think there will be revisements and different criteria. They are honoring inked deals that were made.
I suspect they we make it harder and expand the rules as it seemed pretty easy to get it throught.
Does anyone have the criteria, lets say a link from the US Gov. Website??
Based on the CNN money section, The program needs additional funding to get it through the weekend.
As for it being dead, who knows. I think there will be revisements and different criteria. They are honoring inked deals that were made.
I suspect they we make it harder and expand the rules as it seemed pretty easy to get it throught.
Does anyone have the criteria, lets say a link from the US Gov. Website??
07-31-2009, 10:50 AM
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Program have any rules or anything, like if I was in the market for a new ride I would go out and buy a clunker for 500 bucks and get the money for a trade-in, guess that wouldn't matter anyway the clunker is coming off the road and a new car is being sold so who would care who was financing it right?
I agree with Black scream mach 100%
I agree with Black scream mach 100%
07-31-2009, 11:19 AM
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personally i think it is financial irresponsible. you want to take a paid off car and use it towards a new one. sounds like the housing market all over again.
i will admit i would like the job of blowing these cars up though lol
i will admit i would like the job of blowing these cars up though lol
07-31-2009, 11:23 AM
#20
What is the amount of the credit?
The amount of the credit is $3,500 or $4,500, and generally depends on the type of vehicle you purchase and the difference in fuel economy between the purchased vehicle and the trade-in vehicle. Different requirements apply for work trucks.
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What is the value of the credit for the purchase or lease of a new passenger car?
The value of the credit for the purchase or lease of a new passenger car depends upon the difference between the combined fuel economy of the vehicle that is traded in and that of the new vehicle that is purchased or leased. If the new vehicle has a combined fuel economy that is at least 4, but less than 10, miles per gallon higher than the traded-in vehicle, the credit is $3,500. If the new vehicle has a combined fuel economy value that is at least 10 miles per gallon higher than the traded-in vehicle, the credit is $4,500.
What is the value of the credit for the purchase or lease of a new van, pickup truck or SUV?
The value of the credit given for the purchase or lease of a category 1 or 2 truck also generally depends on the difference between the combined fuel economy of the vehicle that is traded in and that of the new vehicle that is purchased or leased. If the new vehicle is a category 1 truck that has a combined fuel economy value that is at least 2, but less than 5, miles per gallon higher than the traded-in vehicle, the credit is $3,500. If the new category 1 truck has a combined fuel economy value that is at least 5 miles per gallon higher than the traded-in vehicle, the credit is $4,500.
If both the new vehicle and the traded-in vehicle are category 2 trucks and the combined fuel economy value of the new vehicle is at least 1, but less than 2, miles per gallon higher than the combined fuel economy value of the traded in vehicle, the credit is $3,500. If both the new vehicle and the traded-in vehicle are category 2 trucks and the combined fuel economy of the new vehicle is at least 2 miles per gallon higher than that of the traded-in vehicle, the credit is $4,500. A $3,500 credit applies to the purchase or lease of a category 2 truck if the trade-in vehicle is a category 3 (work) truck that was manufactured not later than model year 2001, but not earlier than 25 years before the date of the trade in.
What rules apply to new work trucks?
A work truck, which is called a category 3 truck under the CARS Act, is subject to special rules. Work trucks are not rated for fuel economy by the EPA. Thus, the eligibility of work trucks for the program does not depend on combined fuel economy. Instead, work trucks may only be traded in under the program if they were manufactured not later than model year 2001 and not earlier than 25 years before the date of the trade in. In addition, work trucks may only be traded in for the purchase of a category 2 truck or another category 3 truck that is of similar size or smaller than the traded-in vehicle. Finally, the Act provides only for a $3,500 credit for trading in a work truck.
The CARS Act limits the amount of funds that can be used to provide credits for purchases or leases of work trucks. Only 7.5 percent of the funds appropriated for the program may be used for credits for work trucks. Once that limit is reached, NHTSA will stop making payments for these transactions. NHTSA will keep the public informed as to the funds that remain available for these credits.
I did see new est listed here....
Fuel Economy/MPG
How do I find out the combined city/highway fuel economy rating of my trade-in vehicle?
Go to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm and click on the model year of your vehicle, the make, and then the model. Under the words "ESTIMATED NEW EPA MPG" in the red banner, there is a red number with the word "COMBINED" under it. That is the new combined city/highway fuel economy for your vehicle. You may then enter the make, model, and model year of a new vehicle you may want to buy and see its combined MPG for comparison.
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I just think there is a lot of grey area.